Why has Made for This not been nerfed yet?
3 percent permanent speed boost while injured with the only counter being to run exhaustion perks/add-ons is insane. Boon: Dark Theory only gives 2% and it's a boon which means the killer always has a chance to counter it no matter their build. I shouldn't have to run an exhaustion perk/add-on every single game just because someone may be running Made for This. The killer should always have some counter play against survivors just like survivors should have counter play for every killer. Please devs, PLEASE nerf this perk. Make it only activate after first hook and give it a time limit or something, anything to make it more fair.
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Most people on this forum simply don't understand how good 3% MS is. It literally doesn't matter what killer it is either, 3% can make or break anything in this game easily. A blight flick that misses by half a meter is mft at work.
I have mained survivor for the last year and mft is just free.
It really is absurd to me how 90% of the this forum have 0 clue how good just the 3% of mft is, it's S tier just because of that. When I say 90% I mean the killers who attribute it to all their loses and the survivors who are too unaware to realize how good it is. Best survivor perk since OG CoH.
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100% matchmaking bonus has been on killer more since this perk came out from my observations, at least in my region. The problem is even worse with Mr Cage coming out as even more people want to play survivor.
MFT is really painful if you play a slow killer like Huntress, it can turn some loops into infinites as catching up is a nightmare and you constantly drop chase so windows never get entity blocked etc. I found chase drops with even M1 killers at shack too as they gain too much distance.
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Why are you mentioning Dark theory like that is a good perk?
I am not going to jump on the conversation if MFT is OP or not, but don't try to sell Dark theory as a good balanced perk
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No one said it was but it's the only other speed boost perk in the game besides Hope and Hope is only active in the endgame. I was simply comparing the 2. Never said Dark Theory was good. I think permanent speed boosts for survivors is literally unbalanceable.
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I think most people know how good haste is. my guess is that survivor that say it is not good are using the perk because they like the perk. problem is that killer should be able to counter it with their own haste if they wish to. there is no minor haste perk for killer to mitigate its effect and not many killer want to run any of current haste perks.
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MFT is the perk that allows survivor to never heal and do gens faster with resilience.
Everything in the game has been calculated for 4.0 m/s survivor speed - tile lengh, jungle gym geometry, shack wall lengh, pallet loops, distance between loops, uncloak time/speed, power charge etc...
EVERYTHING has been crafted around this 4.0 m/s speed.
3% with MFT just completely breaks the game design as the game has not be designed for 4,12 m/s.
3% actually equals to 25% more time to catch up a survivor in straight line. If you add loops in-between, MFT easily grant an extra 30 seconds per chase for free MINIMUM.
IF all 4 survivors have MFT + Resilience, it is gg wp - gen rush + 8 x 30 seconds extra chase for free.
The only killer that is not affected is the Nurse.
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It really screws over M1 killers a lot. It's the new dead hard, bad to decent against high tier killers but absolutely busted against low tiers. I had to start running blood echo on legion and sadako again because otherwise it's just a loopfest
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And those same survivors (most of the survivors on this forum) will tell yo uthat the game is balanced or killer sided cause they cannot escape.
What they do not say is that they go down in 30 seconds against a Pig, 15 seconds against a good Wesker. 😂
Post edited by EQWashu on5 -
Probably because it's impossible to nerf it without making it a totally dead perk. Like what can you do with a 3% speed boost to make it balanced? And as with most things in this game. The reason 90% of players don't think it is broken is because 90% of players aren't good enough to utilise it that well.
Killer mains always seem to have one perk they constantly complain about, previously it was dead hard, now it's MFT. Firstly you literally have counterplay to it, a lot of killer arguments here are simply "I don't want to run exhaustion perks" like ok, you have multiple perks that help counter mft but you simply don't want to use them? Seems like self sabotage but ok. Another thing is that mft basically locks a surv out of using any other exhaustion perk. Plus a lot of killers have hard counters in their basekit or addons. MFT aint gonna help you if you step in a bear trap or get nailed with an exhasution hatchet.
Now this is not a survivor main perspective, I play both roles roughly equally, I've tried using mft and it's helped a bit but personally I still prefer lithe. And as killer I don't generally have much trouble with MFT, in fact I think with demo it's been helping me as more mft players are using the speed to commit to doorways and vaults and I'm landing more shreds as a result. Been using fear monger a bit more too. And mft is really not making my killer games much harder at all.
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WGLF
- Endurance for the slugged
- 100% recovering speed from healer
Buckle up doesnt
- Endurance for the slugged
- Endurance for the healer
Take away "Endurance for the healer" from Buckle up, what do you suggest for the missing ability?
Post edited by EQWashu on3 -
Or, Dark Theory is just a Trash Perk (it really is). And comparing it with Made for This only shows that the Devs were way too cautious with Perks back in the past. Because IF Dark Theory would actually be a strong effect, it would be used mroe often.
But well, currently Made for This is "The Thing" which makes Killers lose games. Not their own mistakes or anything, nono. And when Made for This is nerfed, there is another "The Thing" which is the reason why Killers lose games.
Made for This is worse than Sprint Burst and Lithe on the majority of Survivors which are commonly found in regular matches. There will be the odd case where Made for This is stronger on a Survivor because they are really good, but you wont encounter them on a regular basis. At least most Killers in this Forum, which clearly struggle with the game, dont encounter those players on a regular basis.
But again, Killers will just not stop complaining until the current "The Thing" is nerfed and they can complain about the next "The Thing". (Or just SWF, the ultimate Scapegoat)
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But what else am I supposed to blame losing a chase while not trying a single mindgame on?
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The devs should have stayed being cautious with perk effects, back in the day 3% was considered subtle cheating and players with minimal experience in the game could identify a "different movement speed", and we still do.
Game is designed around 100% speed, anything over that breaks the core game.
Survivor mains are on this weird state of claiming MFT is "weak and worse than SB and lithe" while running it over SB and Lithe.
And Of course 3% wont have as much of an effect in Low mmr where survivors dont know how to loop and just run into every wall, but in the higher brackets it makes a normal 15-20 second chase take 50-60 , and that is equivalent to old DH for distance meta value.
The value of 3% is very difficult to identify while in the moment, but when you look back at VODs and videos and identify moments where the surv was an inch away from being hit but still made the pallet stun or got the window vault you and extended chase for another 10-20-30 seconds, that was 3% Value.
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Yeah, this is difficult. I mean, I also take ages for the Skilled Huntress-achievement (because I am really not a "skilled Huntress"). But the reason why I dont get it is obviously Made for This and not me being really bad with her.
The thing is, 3% Movement Speed are good. There is no discussion about it. But you cannot really get a diverse Meta when you are only cautious with creating Perks. Survivors did not get a good Perk in ages (when it comes to new Perks). The last time there was potential for a good Perk was Reassurance, but this did not leave the PTB in a useful way, because suddenly Killer players were worried about Survivors being hold hostage. And the result is a Perk which can find its use in SWFs, but is not good for Solos.
And with Made for This, there is at least an alternative to Exhaustion-Perks. And this is the right way to do, you cannot just force Survivors off Exhaustion Perks by making them all bad like Balanced Landing or Dead Hard. You should create an attractive alternative for them to use. And I see a good mix in my games with Made for This and Exhaustion Perks being used. Which I prefer over seeing 2-4 Sprint Bursts and the ones who dont run Sprint Burst running Lithe instead.
For the average Survivor Sprint Burst and Lithe are better anyway.
The only problem I see with Made For This is the stacking of Haste effects, mainly Hope in Endgame. But this is Hope doing the heavy lifting, Hope alone would be as problematic, but nobody really cared about it. And this can (and should) be fixed. But I think it is fine that Survivors get a strong Perk once every few years.
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Buckle up quite literally should have stayed the way it was, providing 10% haste for 10s for the picker and picked up.
Perk effects overlapping is not a good balance design, BHVR essentially merged MFT's secondary effect with WGLF's Main effect while also removing any type of activation pre-requisite and slapped it on buckle up.
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Okay, so you agree 3% haste from MFT is extremely strong, and theres no discussion to be had about it.
1 - There shouldn't be a "survivor meta" at all. having 4-5 perks that effectively work as a "I win" loadout is a very severe balancing problem and require toning down
2 - DH and balanced landing, at their current state are examples of very balanced perks. BL has a strict/uncommon activation requirement but can bail you out when used currectly, and current DH is a rewarded "Parry" type effect that requires skillful timing or prediction in order to get value.
You cannot be dictating balance around Low-Mid skilled players, because by the time you make a perk strong enough for Low-Mid players to get value, it will be busted and absolutely game breaking when used by High-Very High skilled players.
This is TF2 related, but hopefully it gets the point across : https://youtu.be/X1p42KtZOCw?t=204
Post edited by EQWashu on5 -
When i play soloQ, i see survivors with 3k hours waiting at pallets, unable to do a flashlight save while they are in front of the killer and while there is no timing anymore and unable to do more than 1 gen while i'm being chase for 3 minutes.
All this at high MMR.
That is why here or on reddit, there are a ton of survivor mains saying the game is too hard or that MFT (or old DH) is not strong... they are terrible players, the worst you can meet and they play at high MMR while the should be at below average MMR.
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MFT needs a maximum duration and a way to regain charges.
For ex. 15s of running at 103% speeds and by standing still you regain 0.5s back to it.
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Perks that should not overlap. You mean Unbreakable and Soul guard thats both able to self pickup? The mechanic isnt that rich to make each perks completely different.
1 can do the job, the other one do that exact job but better, but requires something to make it work.
Its good for players to have choices and pick between “the same” perks.
Post edited by EQWashu on2 -
Yes, it would be the proper balancing way, if a stronger version of a perk had a pre-requisite to make it work.
For example , Unbreakable is a 1 time pickup from slug that you can use anywhere on the map. Meanwhile boon exponential lets you pick yourself up unlimited times, BUT requires setting up a boon beforehand and being in the boon's radius - this is the correct way to have perk effect overlap.
On the other hand, you have the weaker WGLF that only provides endurance to the picked up IF you met the activation requirement OR Current Buckle up that provides endurance for BOTH the picked and the picker, with no activation requirement.
Another one is MFT providing a 3% Haste for essentially free, while Dark theory requires a boon and is range limited while providing 2% - this is the incorrect way to do perk effect overlaps.
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That is the same for everyone.
Killers bring the easiest value perks and survivors do the same.
Niche perks that work 20% of the time are only good for youtube thumbnails and adepts. Thats what dark theory is and many other perks in this game.
Post edited by EQWashu on5 -
the name we're gonna live forever seems to imply living forever. I think its meant to be anti-slugging perk to prevent bleed out. it seems like the purpose of this perk was changed at some point or omitted from the game. that is very likely why the perk overlaps. originally, WGLF was bloodpoint BP gain perk like BBQ. it still has unique functionality to heal people quickly while in injured state, but perhaps this effect would be better if it granted 100% healing speed upon picking up a slug like We'll make it. healing quickly on the floor is better done by Zarina's perk, For the people. WGLF is not that great of a perk. it is little bit too situational of a perk.
Game is designed around 100% speed, anything over that breaks the core game.
like killer bloodlust on some loops? small amounts of haste can potentially be fair. very large amount of consistent haste with 100% up-time can be too strong if unchecked.
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WGLF 4.3.0 rework (in 2020)
Perk changed from 25% stackable bonus BP to Perk now grants 10s endurance to the picked up.
WGLF is the embodiment of what perks should be, strong effect, but situational.
Agreed, Very large amounts of consistent haste with 100% up time are indeed too strong, MFT needs to be nuked.
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The endurance on it is more problematic than the 3%. Pairing it with Hope or Dark Theory/BP is problematic. Do I notice the 3%? Yes. Is it that big of a deal? no
I’ll argue DH is still the better chase perk
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Because MFT isn't actually any better than any other exhaustion perk. Most players can't make the most of it, and those that do don't get any more value out of it than a 99d Sprint Burst.
At most it needs to become a full exhaustion perk so that it can't be combo'd with DH.
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Thing about bloodlust is that it helps low mmr killers with learning how to loop, not so much at high MMR because most survs know that it's about to kick in and will do things to make you lose it. There's no way to lose MFT outside of healing. They are not comparable in that sense
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I would make it 2%, actually apply exhaustion to yourself so you can’t stack it with other exhaustions, and remove the endurance component.
This makes it just a flat 2%, nothing else, and unstackable. As survivor I would still run this solely for a 2% as even that is still massive. Even with these nerfs I would still put it at at least a solid A tier for sure.
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just dont reply if you dont want to dicusse it, metaslaving is not ground for dismissal.
Post edited by EQWashu on3 -
Metaslaving results in biased opinions, so it is indeed, grounds for dismissal atleast in topics related to the meta being discussed.
When a MFT+Resi Metaslave tries defending the perks its blatantly obvious that the only reason they do it is so they can keep their "I win" setup.
- Back in the day a 3% speed boost was called *subtle cheating* because as you might guess, it made loops near infinites, and thus broke the game.
- If a 2% warranted a boon and distance limit, then surely a 3% should have STRICTER requirements.
- Being able to pair MFT with ANOTHER exhaustion perk is busted beyond belief, MFT on its own has the ability to extend chase for 20-30 seconds, pair that with DH and as soon as the killer is about to hit you, you can extend for another 20-30 turning an otherwise 20 second chase into 1 minute plus thanks to MFT.
- Its basic common sense that an inevitable game event (getting hit) is not enough of an activation requirement for a 3% speed + 9% vault/Repair boost until healed.
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Dont assume someone is losing or someone "isn't good" because they identified a problematic perk.
Like i've stated before, if you want to see the MFT value, go watch a recent killer POV video/stream and count how many times the killer was one centimeter away from a hit, but got pallet stunned or a surv got a window vault. The pallet / Window they wouldn't have made without it and by consequence extended chase for another 20-30 seconds is the MFT value.
Post edited by EQWashu on2 -
It's a chase perk and we should be outraged that it...sometimes helps during chases? Ok boss.
Post edited by EQWashu on2 -
"Sometimes" applies to things like lucky break and smash hit.
"Always bails you out" is a more accurate descriptive term for MFT+Resi
And yeah, a perk always bailing you out in chases that by design you're intended to lose, is problematic.
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Do you just not understand how metas work? There will always be a killer meta, just as there will always be a survivor meta.
On the subject of high-very high skilled players, the game is not balanced around those players. The majority of changes made for this game are aimed at the lower end of the skill scale.
That's just a worse version of Overcome.
Post edited by EQWashu on3 -
The biggest reason MFT hasn't been touched yet is directly from the devs: that they're looking at data surrounding MFT to see if it's actually problematic.
If MFT is an issue then they should see that in the perk usage rate and players using MFT will correlate with an increased escape rate. And before "but ObJeCT oF ObSeSsIon..." that still led to an increased escape rate in matches where the perk was used, just not necessarily the player running the perk. BHVR knows this already and can see that data.
Other reasons they may not nerf the perk: it's not actually a problem, it's countered by nearly every killer power and base kit bloodlust, more experienced killers have no issues with the perk, it isn't better than SB or Lithe.
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Weird, all the times I catch MFT survivors trying to greed an extra loop instead of popping lithe and holding W must have just been my imagination.
Do you also complain when a killer forces an Enduring stun at a weak pallet and then bloodlusts for a free hit? Because surely chase perks that are always active are completely unfair for both sides right?
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Do you just not understand how metas work? There will always be a killer meta, just as there will always be a survivor meta.
On the subject of high-very high skilled players, the game is not balanced around those players. The majority of changes made for this game are aimed at the lower end of the skill scale.
We can identify a "meta" if the perks are so common on one side they can be essentially called basekit akin to old DH and DS. Right now the survivor meta is MFT+Resi , with a variation between Hope/Adren/Windows.
However, it would be pretty rough to identify a "killer meta" because certain killers synergize better with certain perks, and theres multiple playstyle options to choose from. Chase builds, aura builds, Gen regress builds, Hit n Run builds, etc etc.
Post edited by EQWashu on2 -
While the haste is very strong and can easily be stacked with hope for a really speedy endgame build, people also don't understand that bloodlust often ends a good chase even if the killer isn't fully competent. I'm sure there is gonna be a queue of you that will have some snarky remark to that but it is true. In the long run a perk like this can also counter tunneling which seems to be getting worse and not better since if they can't catch you then you can't be tunneled and they have to make the coin flip of "do I keep tunneling like this or go actually put some pressure on the gens." There is a much bigger picture to look at here
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Stepping in with a reminder to please keep this discussion civil and respectful; you can agree to disagree or be constructively critical, without resorting to belittlement of others or their opinions.
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If it helps with tunneling then good. Make it an anti-tunnel perk by making it only activate after hook, give it a time limit, and increase the speed boost it gives.
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bro you can’t say here is my op, the perk but it helps against the tunnel and that’s why it’s normal (actually no, it’s more profitable for you to kill the wounded 103% survivor than to look for a new one wasting time to injure him and again come to the fact that the survivor is 103% )
he severely punishes weak m1 killers and is completely ignored by the nurse and blight
imagine that noed works from the beginning of the game and cannot be destroyed, this is what mft looks like for a killer
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They might be afraid it's too similar and stackable with perks like off the record
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