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Killer meta perks are still alive while Survivor meta butchered
This game feels unfairly killer favor atm. If you have not SWF to play together, good luck to have fun as solo survivor.
Killer meta perks nerfed for sure but they are still alive and strong but survivor perks unfairly killed!
Pop - still meta
Corrupt - still meta
Pain Res - still meta
Noed - still meta
The only dead perk from old meta is Ruin. But killers are using Sloppy, Deadlock, Jolt, NWO instead of it. Killer meta is still strong and they still stacking and making gens so slower.
But survivor's old meta perks all killed except Resilience.
Iron Will - dead
Dead Hard - dead
Decisive Strike - dead
CoH - dead
Spine Chill - dead
These perks are not giving you good value anymore. IW is not making you quiet and you are losing it when you are exhausted. DS is joke level perk now. DH has only 2 time use and even it's not guaranteed. CoH is dead for solo survivors good for SWFs. SC has no use anymore.
And sadly, their buffed perks are terrible bad. Even their best buffed perk (Off the Record) is not meta perk. It was not in top 10 because it's just so bad to helping against tunnelling. And other buffed perks are not seeing so much use as well.
They just killed survivor meta perks but they did not give us anything for return.
Comments
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It's funny that all of those "dead" perks you listed have been changed so they don't let survivors do anything they want for absolutely no downside.
Do you really think it was healthy for the game that a recently unhooked survivor could get grabbed off of a gen and have a free escape because their DS timer was at 59 out of 60 seconds?
Or, that a survivor could get greedy and be about to go down and completely undo their mistake by pressing E?
Also, Corrupt really isn't meta anymore. It goes away as soon as somebody goes down, including a survivor using Plot Twist at 5 gens.
As for NOED... I mean, it's unhealthy for the game but the devs don't seem to be in the market of changing it. That one I'll give you, but even it can be completely mitigated by running Inner Healing and just getting five heals for free.
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"The only dead perk from old meta is Ruin"
Eruption, Call of Brine, Overcharge, Tinkerer, Thanatophobia, Undying
"Survivors old meta perks all killed except Resilience"
Windows, Adrenaline, Unbreakable, Sprint Burst, Deliverance (technically Borrowed Time wasn't killed either)
"Their buffed perks are terrible bad"
Windows, Distortion, Buckle Up, Deja Vu
"They just killed survivor meta perks but they did not give use anything for return"
Made For This
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Ok....
No the game is not killer sided. Not every killer is nurse, Blight, Wesker or Spirit in terms of power.
I would say it's actually fairly balanced right now, with a few outliers namely: nurse, Blight, Trapper, Freddy, Myers, and the 4man swf.
In regards to perks....
Pain res got buffed after it got nerfed.
Pop got buffed after it was arguably killed as well (I liked it still but that's not the point here)
Corrupt is good because it fixed one of the games main problems for killer. You'd need to rework it entirely.
I dont use noed and find it rather weak in comparison to perks like no way out. But I'm more focused on the mid game rather than end game. So I dont use end game perks that often.
Now to the survivor stuff....
Again, I dislike the mentality that only busted perks are considered good.
Coh killed an entire playstyle and destroyed certain killers on its own.
DH is still going strong, I have good survivors getting very good value out of it. Especially when used with made for this. Ds is still good against your average killer that has no way of immediately closing the gap again. However against the stronger killers and especially nurse and blight, yes it's bad. Therefore I think the perks should punish these killers specifically by reducing their power to 0 when hit with it. Having to recharge it.
Spine chill is bad yes... But so is ruin.
On the contrary, survivors have good perks like off the record, lucky break, smash hit, sprint burst, lithe, buckle up, for the people, break out, plot twist, dramaturgy, alert, bond, Windows of opportunity, adrenaline, unbreakable, overcome, any means necessary and a lot of others. These perks are good, but not overbearing in my opinion. The only Perk that would fit in the category as old Coh is currently made for this if you ask me. But I guess I will get criticised for that.
We need good perks not overturned ones.
Same as killer. Good perks are : Stbfl, surge(jolt), Bbq, lethal pursuer, floods of rage, devour hope, face the darkness, darkness revealed, coup de grace, plaything, rancor, blood favour, no where to hide, no way out and may more.
Both sides got hit hard in 6.1.0 and I'm glad that very problematic perks like dh, Coh and eruption as there where are not in the game anymore. I think it's for the better of it.
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It's funny how you are talking about only bad parts.
First DS nerf was fair. If you are doing gen, killer is not tunnelling you. This was good nerf. But nerfing it to 3 seconds was terrible and it was direct buff to tunnelling. Because they killed DS with this way.
Corrupt is still works same. It still makes survivor to unblocked gen. That's why it's still meta perk.
Dead Hard deserved nerf but BHVR just made it useless level perk. I would take rework instead of last version.
It's not free heals at all. You are cleansing totem and wasting time already. And on current meta, you have not free time to do this. You have to focus on gens or you will lose. Because killer meta is pretty strong atm. Heals are slower, gens are slower, tunnelling is living the gold era. And after all of this, you have to worry about Noed too.
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Pls read my post.
Killer meta is probably the weakest it has ever been right now.
In terms of perks at least.
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If both sides got nerfed and one side still continues to use the nerfed perks, it must not mean that the nerf was not enough. Maybe there are just not good enough alternatives.
They can easily replace dead hard with MFT, but what should they use instead of corrupt?
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Didn't what you said just proves that how pathetic killer perks are?
Even these perks are all nerfed in to the ground killer still has no other choice but keep using them.
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Sorry, but i can´t take this thread serious. Survivor meta has barely changed over the last years.
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In which mmr is noed meta?
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Worth mentioning is all the killer perks that briefly were meta but were quickly murdered as we reverted back to the Pain Res-Pop Meta: Thana, CoB, OC, and Eruption.
As for survivors, Adrenaline still lives as does Sprint Burst and Unbreakable. Furthermore, you're underselling the current meta such as Made For This, Reassurance, or even Distortion that more or less makes you immune to aura reading the entire game unless it's a stealth killer.
ALSO worth mentioning is that part of the goal of the 6.1.0 update that started this entire meta shakeup was that the killrates fell beneath the dev's targeted range. Wjy would they give compensation buffs to "even things out" if that goes against their entire objective?
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Guess in the one where DH is useless. :P
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it was in top 10 perks. 11% use range. Pretty meta, i don't know why you are even asking lol
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Meta also include perks that got nerfed and we used cuz there is still no other way to avoid 3 gens pop in 2 chases?
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Well, if you base your arguments on the latest (useless) stats, DH and spine chill are also still meta…
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This is across all mmr right?
Its important to think what stats mean, when they are dropped and not just make fast descisions.
Noed is a basekit killer perk, therefore it is used by lower level killer players because it is relatively strong and is very rarely countered in game. in addition to that a newer killer hasnt unlocked better / more perks, its clear of why the perk has such a high usage rate.
Lets look at the perks mentioned:
Survivor
- Windows of opportunity - unlockable with shards
- Adrenaline - free
- Resilience - free
- Lithe - free for console i think / unlockable with shards
- Self care - free
- sprint burst - free
- Prove thyself - free
- Dead hard - free
- bond - free
- spine chill - free
Killer
- Surge / Jolt - free
- Sloppy butcherer - free
- Pain resonance - unlockable with shards
- Pop goes the weasel - unlockable with shards
- BBQ - paid / shrine
- Leathal pursuer - paid / shrine
- Corrupt intervention - unlockable with shards
- No where to hide - unlockable with shards
- Stbfl - paid / shrine
- NOED - free
Looking at this you can see a pattern. Free perks are used a lot more than paid ones. Does that mean paid ones are better? Not specifically. Free ones are mainly used more because they are the first accessible to newer players. In addition to that survivor meta perks are also mostly free...
Also according to your logic, perks like spine chill and self care are also meta due to their 6% and 13% pick rate.
Self care has a higher pick rate than NOED. Does that make self care meta? No. I think we can all agree on that the perk is not that strong.
To conclude: High or low pick rate isnt the only factor to determine if or if not a perk is meta.
We need to look deeper into thing and not just look at the surface.
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Lets go over a massive misconseption real quick.
The only way to determine which side the game favours the most is by looking at the skill bracket where the game is played the most optimally.
If when the game is played 100% optimally by both sides, the survivors still manage to pull a 3/4 man out, it tells you the game inherently favours survivors one way or the other.
"Mimimimi but killers go on winstreaks of 100s while survivor players dont11!!!"
Playing killer, you only have to rely on yourself, and the outcome of the match is 100% dictated based on your skill.
Meanwhile even if a survivor player is a god tier looper, all it takes is 1 chase and a team that doesn't unhook him to end his "streak". When your wins are dependant on 3 other people playing right, its obvious you wont streak at all.
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Now perks
A majority of killer perks are downright useless or so situational that killers prefer using a nerfed perk over the others.
Lets be real, who in their right minds uses any of the wraith, Oni , Pig, Huntress, Skull merchant ,etc. perks?
The only reason we're now seeing Oni's Blood echo pop up is because of MFT's status as the most busted perk in the game as of now.
Which leads me into survivor perks....
Iron will - this perk is still strong, paring it on a character like ace or ada will make you essentially silent. no idea why you claim this is dead.
Dead hard - yada yada yada, Uncounterable DH for distance, E press at pallet etc etc. you know why this perk needed a rework and its pointless to have to re-explain something that has been said before Millions of times.
DS - 1 minute of immunity is insane with the only counterplay being "slug for a minute and concede the pickup" , this is incase you weren't forced the eat the DS with a locker play, if you unhook someone in the killers face, thats a mistake, perks working as mistake erasers should never be a thing.
COH - Allowed survivors to set up an infinite heal camp on 1 corner of the map. made medkits obsolete, killed Hit n run playstyle, if it got snuffed a survivor could just reboon it 15s later. Ironically, for a healing perk this was one of the most unhealthy perks in the entire game.
Spine Chill - This perk forced killers to crab walk to gens, gave permanent pseudo-Wallhacks AND a vault speed increase. it was objectively too strong and forced weird behavior on killers just to counter it.
Off the record - has the potential of giving you 3 HEALTH STATES if you get healed under hook , allows you to bodyblock for up to 80 seconds because of the endurance effect. This is far from a "weak perk".
Also your survivor entitlement is shining trough, just because blatantly busted survivor perks get the nerfs they deserve, it doesn't mean you're entitled to a new busted toy to abuse.
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Agree.
Im so sad that the status of a perk being "good" means they have to be on the level of old coh, ds or even dh. Same on killer with old ruin - undying, pain res - dms or eruption. Perks should be good, not overtuned.
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Agree.
Its sad to see that a perk being "good" means thta they have to be on the level of old coh, ds or even old dh. Same goes for killer in terms of old ruin- undying, pain res - dms or eruption. Perks should be good, not overtuned.
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Sorry... Got deleted somehow....
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Just be happy they have given survivors some new good perks recently.
I will take that over an year of mediocre ######### perks, because that is usually what survivor used to get for new perks
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Killing COH actually revived Hit and Run which is an alternative to tunneling/slugging and camping that people keep complaining about. Devs also introduced MFT so that people who ignored healing to do gens would have a bit more of a chance to escape.
Pain Res got buffed and nerfed at the same time. This slightly nerfed proxy camping as Killers could keep downing+ hooking the Rescuer for the 15% regression. DMS synergy has also been restricted to 4 times max
Corrupt is a failsafe for large maps where you could have half a gen done before the Killer even reaches the Survivors. I would argue that it actually punishes Killers who are able to down someone early.
Windows is strong regardless of solo queue or swf because Survivors do not have to spend time looking around to decide where to run to if the Killer arrives, the information is just there.
Self care + Botany is actually stronger in solo queue or if you are playing against Oni or Hit and Run since healing is limited now.
Please don’t try to paint a narrative that Survivors have no perk “meta” so to speak. I just went against a 4man swf running Resilience + MFT and Hope/Adrenaline. There is definitely still a meta.
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Huh it's almost as if Survivors need to use their brains for once..
What a shock!!!
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I mean I guess we can pretend 3 of the last 6 survivor perks aren't meta perks or that the rest of the survivor meta perks aren't from 2016-2017. You somehow managed to be wrong on both ends which is impressive.
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Pop is meta again. Not STILL meta. There is a difference. BHVR realized that camping was becoming too much of an issue, so they tried to give the killer some incentive to leave the hook. You want to nerf it? Ok, let's kill Pop Goes The Weasel and see how fun survivor matches are then.
Corrupt Intervention is a band aid fix to an issue as old as the game itself. Survivors spawn right next to their objective while killers spawn on the other side of the map. As far as possible. Not only can survivors progress their objective more easily than any killer, they also get free time at the start to have an early game advantage. Corrupt Intervention slows that down and allows the killer to have an early game.
You are right about Pain Res but besides the obvious problem, that it rewards camping, Pain Res is a rather healthy perk. It incentivises the killer to hook multiple survivors. So it is an anti-tunneling perk. This is the problem when someone so obviously plays only one side. They don't even think about what happens when certain perks fall out of the meta.
I hate Deadlock as much as the next person because you don't do anything for it. Instead of nerfing this perk and making the old issue of a small number of perks prevelant in every game worse they should rework it. The less meta perks there are, the worse it gets. You haven't experienced the horrors of 4 survivors with identical perks in a majority of matches. It was incredibly stale. Nerfing killer perks until we that situation again is not going to make the game more fun for you, I can assure.
Sloppy is an anti-healing perk that does little to nothing for the strongest killers in the game while helping weaker killers immensely. Didn't you make a post the other day asking why you always see the same killers? Well, nerfing a perk that helps with low pick rates is sure not going to help the issue. The same goes for Jolt. Have you seen Jolt on Nurse and Blight? It does absolutely nothing for them. Because most of their hits are M2s. And if you get hit by a Nurse M1, then that's a skill issue.
I will never understand why people complain about NWO. It really isn't so bad. 1 more minute in the match is only a game changer when the game was close to begin with. And in this case, you barely finished the gens against a killer with 3 perks. Besides that, NWO is again a very healthy perk. Again, it is an anti-tunneling perk. Nerf it and see what happens.
IW is not supposed to make you completely silent anymore. 75% is still good. Slap it on someone who doesn't sound like they are trying to reach someone in outerspace and the killer has better chances hearing your footsteps than your grunts. It is nowhere near dead. Dead are perks like Call of Brine and Overcharge (besides on Dull Merchant with 1 specific addon).
DH is still not dead. Even after 2 nerfs and DH being the bane of any killer's existance. They could nerf it again just for that reason but they made it a fine perk instead.
DS is in a bad spot. It's good against low tier killers and worthless against the stronger ones.
CoH is not dead either. It's still good. Just not broken anymore.
OTR is a meta perk. It's not used anymore because survivors spiraled back chase and gen perks.
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Do you play solo queue or swf?
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as you said to me in another topic.
the devs reworked these perks. so they are fine
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The Survivor meta is actually pretty good and varied right now.
The Killer meta is the one that's stale and boring, filled with uninteractive brainless perks and addons that encourage brainless gameplay.
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MFT is meta but what are the other 2 new survivor perks that are meta? I’m assuming by meta you mean they’re commonly used.
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Dramaturgy and Plot Twist.
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You guys are getting in 2 chases before you lose 3 gens? Cries in Trapper.
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I doubt she responds to this lol
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I think it's very healthy that dh isn't there in the first chase.
It's where the killer needs pressure the most.
It's fine to be during the match.
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Cries in Pig
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This is topic was probably just made as bait and not for actual discussion so I don’t really expect them to either haha
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The DS conspicuous action change dealt with the gen aspect, without needing to nerf the 5s stun or disable it in endgame. I'm fine with not having it in endgame, if it still had teeth. If we don't bump it back up to 5s, I'd like it to disable Killer power for 5s per gen remaining. That way the Nurse tunneling at 5 gens can't blink for 25s, but the Bubba tunneling at 1 gen only has to wait 5s to use the saw.
I do agree that when they added DH validation it was busted, but the Endurance version was fine, because it only had value at pallets, not windows as well (although it could be busted with the 'bugfix' Fast vaults). Arguably I'd say we should have it only work against Special Attacks with a 1s duration and without the hooked requirement. That way it can still shut down Nurses and Blights, but do nothing to Legions and Clowns and Ghostfaces.
Plot twist to shut down Corrupt is a meme, and 99% of the time it is only a No Mither madlad doing that. If you have trouble winning with a No Mither user with a dead perk slot of Plot Twist, you have larger problems than losing Corrupt early.
I'm a bit of an odd one out with NOED, I'd want to basekit it in the case of 0 kills. If someone dies, the basekit NOED dies like Ruin, but if you bring the perk it can still spawn/survive after a kill. This would add extra pressure for the Survivors when the Killer is getting stomped, and allow for a potential comeback.
Also thought this was interesting and wanted to check the patches/dates added. (Month-Year format)
Survivor Meta perks are basically the release perks, or updates to perks at least 3-5 years old. (Rough Year 1/1/1/1/1/1/1/1/2/2)
Killer Meta perks get one or two a year basically. (Rough Year 1/1/1/2/2/2/3/5/5/6)
To be fair, the last new Survivor Meta perk (CoH) was insanely busted and I think the only QoL it needs is to allow Self-Care at 25% speed. That way, if a teammate sees you taking 64s/80Sloppy to heal, they'd rather 8s/10Sloppy heal you themself.
Looking at the dates, it just makes Survivor look ludicrously depressing.
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By that logic, all the perks you claimed to not be meta anymore are still meta as well with a even higher pick rate..
But seeing the other comments, i am sure you wont reply.
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Problem I am finding lately is the game itself under these killers is becoming unfun. MMR and over balancing is killing dbd for me. Listening to posts like this are why.
I hope TCM ignores the community.
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5 second DS only affects killers who can't afford to eat a stun in the first place, regardless of how long it is. Do you really think a Nurse cares whether she gets stunned for 3 or 5 seconds? Not at all.
A Pig on the other hand.... A Clown on the other hand.... A Trapper on the other hand.....
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That's why I offered the anti-power DS variant.
Even then with 5s DS, you don't 'need' to tunnel in more than 90% of powerless M1 Killer matches anyways (assuming you are willing to develop enough skill).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vaR-9_Vjp3s
It is super easy to pay attention to who you hooked last at the very least, and just not go for them. Even then, waiting for them to commit the grave sin of a CA is equally easy.
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Your idea of meta is extremely generous. Lol.
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