"Made For This" Opinions
After watching Otz's new video, he brought up some interesting ideas that I haven't considered, but for the most part I disagree on. I would like to hear opinions from people who play both sides, like I just play whichever side has boosted bloodpoints lol.
His 3 ideas were:
- Haste effects no longer stack. His main argument for this was that hope and MFT combined are op, but I don't think he considered that this is only in effect for the endgame, which is a small part of the game overall. If I'm a killer and the survivors are all running this combo I'm not upset about haste stacking because I had the whole rest of the game to get them.
- Killer gets a visual warning when it procs. I don't think this is a bad idea.
- Endurance effect removed. Now this is something I'm iffy on because picking someone up is risky while injured anyways and the killer can just down the person who got picked up.
The main thing I really think he didn't consider through his video was that to activate this perk there are 2 requirements: You must be injured and must not be exhausted. Being injured is risky in itself because it means you don't get a second chance if you make a mistake and the 3% will often not save you. Also you are easier to locate and must play safer overall. Secondly you cannot really use any exhaustion perks effectively if you have MFT because it just cancels it out. I find exhaustion perks like lithe and mid chase sprint burst to be more frustrating then a survivor running a tiny bit faster.
Overall I don't think this perk needs to be changed. Maybe add the visual effect but that's it. As someone who plays killer a decent amount I have no problem with survivors using this perk as this means they're more likely to stay injured, making it easier to locate them and only having to hit them once to down them. From a survivor perspective this only makes a difference if you know how to loop in the first place, and often is just a perk that makes sure I make a window or pallet without being hit, versus leaving it up to ping.
Comments
-
His "nerf" ideas would do absolutely nothing in terms of the perks power level and the perk would still be S tier as he didn't address any of the fundamental issues with the perk which are how powerful 3% haste is and the fact you can stack it with other Exhaustion perks still.
What the perk actually needs to be balanced is to lower the percent to like 2% and then make it cause Exhaustion itself so it can't be stacked. Now it's solid, but not over tuned.
Knowing they are running the perk and the Endurance feature are nearly irrelevant as far as what makes the perk good.
19 -
I really am surprised otz of all people put the speed at fine tier, especially after admitting how often it lets a survivor make another safety net. I run it every single game and am far more lax while injured for a reason.
15 -
Otz was wrong about the first situation though. In terms of distance gained, it does better than sprint burst in all but the most ridiculous scenarios. Lets look at a healthy survivor, and a 4.6 killer at various distances with mft and without mft , and with sprint burst and how long it takes to down them. Keep in mind the following facts.
- Lunging makes a 4.6 killer's movement speed 6.9 for 0.9 seconds. But the survivor still moves during that at 4.0 m/s. Killer attack hitbox extends out about a meter. This means the killer needs to be within 3.6 meters of the survivor to make a successful lunge attack at max range.
- Survivors gain 150% movement speed (6.0 m/s) for 1.8 seconds after being hit.
- Killer wipe animation after attack is 2.7 seconds, during which they move 0.575 m/s
- Sprint burst allows the survivor to move 6.0 m/s for 3 seconds
- MFT increases a survivors injured movement speed to 4.12 m/s
So, doing the math with these parameters if the healthy survivor starts at the following distances from a 4.6 killer, how long will it take to down them?
16 meters (half a terror radius)
- Basekit: 20.6 seconds for the first hit + 15.4 seconds for the second hit = 36 seconds to down
- Sprint burst: 30.6 seconds for the first hit + 15.4 seconds for the second hit = 46 seconds to down
- MFT: 20.6 seconds for the first hit + 27.44 seconds for the second hit = 48 seconds to down
This means that MFT actually gains you MORE distance that sprint burst, over a straight line chase starting at 16 meters. 16 meters is pretty close. For an idea of distance, a 4.6 killer for a full lunge will move 6.21 meters. So, start up a game as a 4.6 killer, and lunge 3 times. And see how close your starting point was compared to you. THAT distance, is actually 18.63 meters, which is a full 2.63 meters further than that starting chase.
After you realize this, you realize that MFT is by far the best exhaustion perk in the game now.
29 -
The simple fact is an unlimited movement speed boost with no downsides is never going to be balanced. I mean imagine if the new killer perk just gave you a 5% haste after hitting a survivor and didn't expire until something stupid like getting stunned by a pallet, it would be wildly overpowered.
Imo they should make it like Lucky Break: a set duration of the perk being active that runs out over time and can be recharged via some kind of action, such as healing others or honestly not let it recharge at all depending on the duration. As for the numbers that's not for me to say, one thing I do agree with Otz on though is haste stacking should not exist in any form.
16 -
Making all Haste perks unstackable sounds like good solution. It would make allready top tier perks with Haste effect in check (MFT + Hope = gg you won againts most Killers), without needing of directly nerfing them or at least not much. It would also unlock the option to bad Haste perks could get some small buff (Like Dark Theory --> 2% to 3%) and it would keep them in check so they don't create some crazy combo again.
As of now, MFT and Hope gatekeeps imo the rest of the perks because how dangerous and powerfull is stacking haste effect for Survivors. Movement speed is very important balance point for both sides. 4.4 m/s Killers vs 4.6 m/s for example, imagine Hag running normal speed, Spirit, etc. I really don't think (and no, just because you reached late stage of the game doesn't make you need to have huge advatange over majority of killers) something like moving close as or same as Killer speed should ever be possible without Exhaustion perks that give you that ability for very short time.
0 -
I'm only going to comment about the endgame comment you had and that I disagree on. While it's true you had a whole game to keep survivors getting endgame but endgame is still a important part of the match as it's the last time killers get the chance to force survivors to make a mistake. I have had a lot of matches that get to endgame with 4 survivors and I walk away with 3 kills bc they made some major mistakes. Hope+MFT makes it where killers honestly have no chance to make a play to force the rest of the survivors to make mistakes. Ever since this combo came into the game I even stopped playing for the endgame and stop using perks like no way out bc there no use to even try now.
If everyone felt the same way as you did we might as well not even have a endgame collapse to begin with. When the 5 gen gets completed they might as well kick everyone out of the match and say "survivors win, killer you lose" But that's not how DBD is designed. We do have a endgame collapse and perks like hope+MfT only hurt killers greatly and deny them from making a move.
7 -
The perk is bad for the game and should not exist, period, end of discussion.
It should at best last maybe 10 seconds after being injured, and that's a gigantic maybe.
Anyone who disagrees does not play a weaker M1 Killer and it shows.
11 -
I disagree. I think the perk without endurance and haste stacking is healthy for the game. It's an alternative to exhaustion perks. Friendly reminder that Overcome exists.
What M1 killers are you referring to that are so weak that this perk significantly impacts them?
3 -
It's funny when you think about it.
This is dbd now...
We have 110% survivors in end game / 103% survivors with 9% action speed increase the whole game and a killer that holds survivors hostage for an hour waiting that they all die to server time out.
If I went back in time for 2 years and wrote this in the comments in this forum, I think people would call me crazy.
This is our dbd now.
12 -
I saw someone else write this on a stream, so i cant take credit for the idea, but how about this.
It starts on 1% and gets stronger for each hook state the survivors are on 3% is death hook (anti tunnel).
or
it gets 1% for each dead survivor.
0 -
Play with your food does exactly this though, and isn't even considered good, let alone 'wildly overpowered'.
It's a 3% per stack move speed bonus that stacks up to 9% and you only lose a token on a successful hit.
It's far from 'wildly overpowered' because the hype over a 3% move speed boost is insanely overstated.
0 -
Literally any M1 Killer who has little to no chase power, it makes a MASSIVE difference as it is not just a 3% buff but a 20% speed buff from the perspective of 100% movement speed Survivors vs. 115% movement speed M1 Killers.
8 -
Play with your food has heavy restrictions. That's why it's not considered good.
It needs you to find the obsession and start and stop chases with them. This takes a lot of time,that you as killer is not harassing gens, getting hits, getting downs, getting hooks....
You can have 3 stacks that decrease for every usage of your power, if you (killer) have a chase power and every m1. Hit or. It does not matter. You can waste a ton of time farming stacks and then not even getting a hit, you lost a ton of time for no reward.
Sure you can use it in combination with other perks to make it better, but you only have four Perk slots. Giving two up for a Perk that has this many downsides is very risky.
Now look at made for this.
Constant 3% haste effect without downside. Will eventually be activated in Game. Guaranteed. Has synergy with very strong perks without downsides. Can be used on all survivors for a grand total of 4 per match. This is not even about the extra endurance effect it has.
No. I don't think people overstate their opinion about this Perk being problematic.
16 -
By that measure, MfT haste ends when the chase ends too. So both expire when the killer lands a hit.
Either way, 9% haste from pwyf or the 15% hate from bloodlust, which stack with each other, should be considered OMGWTF godly.
MfT haste isn't an issue, it's just the 'new thing' killers cry about since dead hard and ds were deleted.
4 -
I think survivors should all spawn in the dying state at the beginning of the match. Rush gens now!
4 -
What M1 killers are disproportionately affected by MFT? A lot.
My main shout-out would be to the Doctor, mostly because I play him a lot and his ability gets absolutely trashed by MFT. His power is finicky enough that even once you get good at him shocking survivors at pallets requires super-tight timing. Survivors moving 3% faster throws that timing right out the window and makes his ability feel supremely useless.
Other killers who get their timings thrown off by this 3% change? Off the cuff, I can name Wraith, Hag, Nemo, Trickster, Freddy, Clown, and Pig.
That's really the big problem that I have with MFT. Top tier killers like Nurse and Blight don't really care about it. It's only the weaker M1 killers who get disproportionally affected by it. Do we really need a perk that only punishes the weakest killers?
8 -
Let's say you play Wraith (because he is the best user of PWYF). You instantly find your obsession and start chasing them. Now you cloak again and have to wait 10 seconds for PWYF to be active again. Now you do it again and again. So you waste more than 20 in the absolute best case scenario just for that 9% speed boost.
Next you go into a chase with whatever survivor you want. We'll assume this takes no time at all. Now you chase that survivor until you gain bloodlust 3. That takes 35 seconds. This means you invest 55 seconds for a massive 24% speed boost. Sounds ridiculous? Yes, because it is. But in 55 seconds without a down or pressuring gens you lose the game. And you only get a hit! This is 165 / 450 charges on gens (more than a third of the survivors' objective!). The devs try to balance around 45 seconds chases. This would put you behind schedule even in the absolute best case scenario. Meaning, by playing in this way you waste a bunch of time and get worse results than normal.
This is the difference to MFT. It has no drawbacks. You get injured eventually. And if you don't, then you win anyway. You don't do anything to activate your 3% haste. It just happens for you because the killer made the grave mistake of trying to progress their objective. And because MFT doesn't exhaust you, it even has synergy with some exhaustion perks. So you prolong the chase with MFT and when the chase should finally end then you prolong it again with another exhaustion perk.
One thing is for sure. MFT has 2 very strong effects and a side effect that is very unhealthy for the game. So if you keep your 3% haste, then nerfing the other 2 parts would be fine, wouldn't it? You don't need the endurance effect on top of the haste effect. This is just stupid. And you don't need a perk that gaslights the killer into believing everyone is faster either. This is what subtle cheaters did and it drove a bunch of killer players crazy. Because you constantly second guessed everything you saw and eventually arrived at the conclusion that you had no way to know, if that survivor was cheating or not.
How would you even tell a new player that they need to look out because the survivor could be moving 3% faster than normal?
4 -
I had a post typed up that broke down each of those killers you listed, but the tab refreshed and I lost the post so you'll just have to settle for this.
Only Nemmy, Pig, Doctor, Hag and Trapper are disproportionately affected by MFT, and they'd be just as adversely affected by exhaustion perks. Pig, Doctor, Hag and Trapper all suffer from outdated designs.
1 -
This! Ngl anytime I play hag without corrupt, I lose the first 2 gens while setting up my web. It's not uncommon at all for my match to actually start at 3 to 2 gens, without tunneling endgame is where is secure most of my 3rd hooks. Hope and mft stacking against hag is... Well just play hag against 3 or 4 surv with that combo and see how fair that is.
2 -
Tho it is true those killers suffer from outdated designs, MfT is not affecting that all that much. What it is affecting is timing and feeling you learn as a killer to get hits. Otz talked about this in his video where MFT affects the timing that a lot of killer mains have learned over hours of playing and it also affects new players' able to learn these timings also. My main issue right now with MfT and other haste perks on both sides are we getting to the point we getting too many ways to affect the basic movement speed of both killers and survivors. Imo the movement speeds should stay mostly the same thought out the game since its plays a BIG part in chases.
The thing about exhaustion perks btw is you usually only get to use them once in each chase you have and as a killer, you can tell what exhaustion perk a survivor has but MFT is always working and you never know it's in play until the end of the game. This is why I agree with Otz's suggestion of letting the killer know when MfT procs so the killer then can make an informed decision. Right now you cant make an informed decision against MfT since you have no clue it's there or not.
0 -
I mean as nurse it does throw your blinks off, unless you've just been getting lucky. Most vet nurses know blink distances from muscle memory, not saying that she's affected by it heavily, but it does throw you off that first chase lol. I can't tell you how many times I've blinked and the hit just shaved someones back hair off. Windows are where it can really shine especially with resil and the new vault. The funny thing is that you get blinking MFT distances down only to have the other 2 without it and you over blink. Not discounting how it destroys M1 killers by any means, as I play hag and Freddy quite often so I really know. I was just highlighting that it affects nurse to albeit to a far lesser extent.
0 -
Again in ots post you can know when they have it and decide if you want to chase them still
0 -
I'm glad Otz is actually reasonable and recognizes that the 3% is not a big deal. This perk is good but it's the most overhyped thing in a great long while. You'd think it is the sole reason people are losing games with the way people are talking about it. They could nerf it to 2% but people would still complain just as much. People will be unhappy with this perk until the haste is completely deleted. God forbid survivors have a strong perk. You've got Hens and his buddies winning 104/113 games using only M1 and no tunnel while people on the forum are claiming that it's impossible to win as M1 killers now. Something about this doesn't add up.
3 -
I agree with Otz's assessment of the perk, I disagree with the sentiment that even just the 3% haste by itself is unhealthy for the game.
I agree with Otz's asssessment of the perk and his proposed solutions. I think it's important that survivors have alternatives to exhaustion perks that aren't single-use one and done type perks.
Without the endurance, MFT is only good because of the unlimited 3% haste while injured.
1 -
Being injured is risky in itself
it's not. it's the natural process of getting downed and hooked by a killer that doesn't have a oneshot power which is like 85% of killer roster.
for a change idea: just give the perk a duration for which it can be active total. 2-3 mins would be ideal so the user can't recklessly stay injured and get infinite value.
5 -
Meh.
It's a strong perk. Neither side likes it when the other side gets a strong perk. Sometimes, there's something to that like with CoH or Eruption. Sometimes, there's not like with Hyperfocus or Lethal.
2 -
But thats wven more dumb because killers are just plain faster that sirvivors by default. Even with MFT they still are. Lol
0 -
Oh then u must be a survivor. Run no mither then
0 -
yea, i haven't seen anyone purposefully stay injured just to get mft value. they heal, during chase if they get injured they'll get it right back anyway. maybe for a change idea survivors could lose it if they heal to healthy 2 times so it's actually a choice they have to make to stay injured for mft value. but rn, it is not a choice or risk they have to take. at all.
0 -
I've wondered lately if the intent of perks such as this is to destroy muscle memory.
After many many hours skilled killers and survs learn the timing and distances of the gane, assuming a reasonably stable ping. Do I make it to this pallet? To this window before the surv can vault? Is that a medium vault from here or fast? Are they close enough to DH them?
Maybe they're seeking to have players all moving at different speeds? Sprint Burst and Lithe already temporarily disrupt timings, and Made For This certainly does, especially paired with a couple of other perks.
Also the threat of a surv running MFT is becoming a factor, just as old Decisive Strike did. Causes hesitation (again effecting speeds) and can change decision making while in chase.
1 -
Imo, only fair decision with this perk will be this:
2 -
The run speed is faster, which is why survivors are giving faster vault speeds and such to gain distance. Killers can then vault and give distance, or walk to a nearby doorway and give distance.
1 -
Tho I kinda agree with you about that but we are heading towards a point where there be too many subtle haste perks on both sides and movement will start to be unpredictable which imo isnt good for the heath of the game and will only hurt newer players when they start learning the game. Otzs worded it best in his opinions post for the Alien PTB. This is about the killer perk Rapid Brutality.
"Killer Perk: Rapid Brutality gives a 5% speed boost after a basic attack for 10s but disables Bloodlust. At first glance, and for most Killers, this perk doesn't seem very worth the risks, but I'm sure we'll find some niche usage for it. Even if it doesn't break the game, I really, really dislike the fact that we're introducing so many subtle movement speed perks. It's going to become a problem at some point when you'll have no idea what the correct play is anymore, since your opponent's speed will be so unpredictable."
As you see Otz isn't just worried about haste perks from a killer pov but from the pov of both sides. I just think we are heading towards a slippy slope if the Dev continues to throw haste on every other new perk they release.
0 -
Killers have coup de grace, blood lust and some more. I don't pair MFT w anything else I run it solo. Let us have one good perk please.
1 -
At the end of the day everyone wants to have an equal game or win and it won't happen unless the devs completely revamp the way it's played or introduce other modes. It's turned into such a sweatfest you have no choice but to sit there and give your self an aneurysm because what do we as greedy humans want? To win. If you aren't winning you hate everything the other side has and instead of playing to your own enjoyment everyone's been brainwashed to be like their fav streamer to play in a way that satisfies our own egos.
0 -
Otz's suggestion wouldn't affect you then. If you watched his video all the way to the end then you know the biggest thing he wanted to change is haste stacking and that is it. The other two suggestions are rather small, letting the killer know when mft procs so they can plan around it and try to outplay it/make an informed choice and change the endurance effect into some other type of effect since we already have so many perks that give endurance and it is starting to muddy the water.
0 -
I can agree with this. I use it mainly to try and lear how to loop better lol I'm still terrible but the times I do awesome I do feel better about making good pathing decision
0 -
at 2%. I would not notice effect of the perk. otz says in his video that it is hard for him to notice the perk. he notices the perk about 33% of the time when doing in houses. in public matches, he notices the perk around 80%+? of the time. I think MFT would be nearly invisible as killer. an invisible perk might as well be non-existent in power-level. If I cannot notice the perk a single time in trial then does the perk really do anything? It is like survivor bringing low profile or better than new into a match. The perk might as well do nothing. I think there is stark exaggeration on strength of the perk. it makes difference in some instances but those instances are not that crazy..
0 -
Not being noticed does not mean it is not making a noticeable difference. People have different levels of observance.
On average survivors it isn't doing much, but on good survivors that 3% is massive. It's the difference between making a window or pallet and not. Which in itself adds a lot to chase times. This is also exacerbated by the fact that even though it's an Exhaustion perk itself, you can still run other Exhaustion perks with it. I personally stack it with DH which I shouldn't be able to do, it's way too strong.
4 -
I was with you till you said Trickster.
Holding W while spamming 44 knives isn't super impacted by anything except LoS breaks.
1 -
that is because your experienced at the game. I use same combo but that does not mean it is overpowered. my opponent might have poor pathing and might not be playing the killer to their full potencial while you are using the perk its full potencial because of your skill-level on survivor. I think I agree a lot more with otz's opinion on the perk.
0 -
I used it for a couple of days and I don't see the big deal. I really didn't notice a big change in my chases. I didn't stack it though. Maybe I will Monday.
1 -
the only problematic haste effect in the game is mft. crippling whole haste system because of it? are you kidding? just reduce bonus to 2% and attach 30 seconds time limit
end of story
2 -
Pigs design is NOT outdated.
I'll stand my ground on that.
<3
0 -
Strong perks are fine.
Unhealthy perks are not.
1 -
What if instead of activating when injured, it only triggers when on death hook but is active while healthy as well?
And of course remove the Endurance and Haste stacking.
1 -
Horrible making this perk so situational will guarantee it be complete trash. Right up there with bloodrush
Maybe the perk should just do something entirely different outside of speed. These suggestions will send it stright to the 0.1 usage rate. Making the perk only useable when you close to death or your team dying is not the answer.
Fast track, low profile, sole survivor what do they all have in common? They work best when the team dead. No one use them perks and they won't use the new MFT either.
1 -
Instead of an opinion I can give you a fact;
Made For This is not healthy for the game in any capacity, it is useless against top tier Killers like Blight and Nurse and a bullet to the head of any M1 non mobile Killer.
This perk succeeds at nothing except making the game not fun for every Killer that doesn't have high mobility, ranged attacks or game breaking mechanics.
I am playing Clown right now and even with the slowdown of his bottles, it is impossible to catch up to a Survivor on something like Dead Dawg's building. The perk effectively disabled my power.
It's not JUST Made For This, it's also the fact that the extra distance gives you an extra window, an extra pallet, so many small things that snowball into a massive issue that cannot and should not be tolerated in any capacity.
This is one of if not outright the worst designed perk they have ever released, and years ago people would have laughed at you if you suggested it.
I know for a FACT they did not test this perk, no sane person would see how this perk treats M1 Killers and think it is okay. Not one Dev bothered to play Trapper or Pig against a Squad with this perk and it painfully shows, and I will callout anyone who implies otherwise as a complete liar. I want video recording of their gameplay as proof, otherwise I don't believe it for a single second.
0 -
Wouldn’t be anywhere near as situational as Bloodrush because you don’t have to be healed and exhausted to use it.
If it’s still too weak you could also remove the exhaustion downside and let it combo with exhaustion perks.
I do agree though that completely changing it to something else would be much better. But I don’t have any suggestions for that :/
0 -
Because a 30 second time limit will definitely not make the perk a much weaker pick than an exhaustion perk like Sprint Burst or Lithe. You have to be injured to get the 3% haste.
0
