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The Terms "Tunneling" and "Genrushing" are misused.
Most of the DBD community and all of the DBD forums community understand what tunneling, camping, and genrushing mean. Even though they understand what it has been commonly definined as, doesn't stop them from stretching its uses to attack the other side.
"Tunneling" is the act of a killer ingoring other survivors to target the survivor who was recently unhooked. If the unhooked survivor decides to bodyblock using basekit BT or OTR, it is NOT tunneling when the killer downs and hooks you.
"Genrushing" is when survivors ignore all other objectives and are completely focused on generators. If you waste two minutes downing a survivor and hooking them, and 3 generators pop, that is not genrushing.
If 3 generators pop in under a minute, and the other 2 pop in under another 1 1/2 minutes regardless if a survivor is hooked, that would be an example of genrushing.
"Camping" is when a killer chooses to ignore appling pressure and decides to stay very close to a hooked survivor. It is NOT camping when a survivor loops around the place you are hooked.
I wanted to create this post due to multiple occasions where I was called a "dirty genrusher" or a "sweaty tunneler"
Just last week a Blight commited to chasing one survivor for 4 or more minutes. All 5 generators popped, the Blight DCed, and called us all "dirty genrushers".
Yesterday, a Claudette decided to take an OTR hit. After getting hit, she started to T-bag and attempt to loop shack. She got downed in under 20 seconds, DCed, and left chains of salty comments on my profile.
Please do not be like these players.
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tunneling is refer to tunnel vision and in dbd's case, it is tunnel visioning hook-states. you can tunnel two people at same time by ignoring two survivors and only chasing other two survivors until they die. it has nothing to do with returning to the hook or anything like that. it is just changing hook objective from 12 hook to 7 hooks. you can hook two survivors for total 6 hooks and hooking 1 survivor for 3 kills.
gen-rushing is being glued to gens. it is having high-up time on gens such as 1 person getting chased and 3 people doing gens. the result of 3 people being glued to gens entire game is very fast games.
camping is staying in spot and defending a particular objective. In dbd case, camping will often show up in form hook camping, gen camping also known as 3 gens and slug camping.
Just last week a Blight commited to chasing one survivor for 4 or more minutes. All 5 generators popped, the Blight DCed, and called us all "dirty genrushers".
Blight is correct. he is saying that you were glued to gens the entire game and he is salty for his loss.
Post edited by Devil_hit11 on5 -
IMO genrushing may be an applicable term for people who deck themselves out (toolboxes, perks, etc) with the sole intention of smashing out gens as fast as they can. However, a lot of people on this forum love referring to the Nightlight site, and that says Stakeout/Hyperfocus (which are usually the perks attributed to genrushing) only have a 1.7% and 1.4% pickrate respectively. And one person running those perks isn't going to make or break the game. You'd need more people in on it, so more likely swfs. So true genrushing isn't a common thing imo.
The killer focusing on one survivor for too long, leaving the other survivors nothing else to do but gens, isn't genrushing imo.
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The problem with calling genrushing "glued to gens" is that doing gens is survivors main objective, what else are they supposed to do? Dull totems? Unless they need to unhook or depending on playstyle/killer heal there is basically nothing else to do than gens.
Genrushing is more of an unhealthy playstyle where you let people go 2nd stage or even die on hook just to finish a Gen and similar things. While this can be the right choice in certain situation, for example breaking a 3 Gen, when referring to it as genrushing it is more or less meant as not a smart tactical decision.
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I think the definition for tunneling and camping is a bit clearer than it is for gen rushing. For gen rush the line can get a bit blurry. 4 survivors that are efficient on gens can end the match in under 4 minutes even without any toolboxes. I think it's fair to call that gen rush (mainly because we do not have any other fitting term) even though the survivors didn't stack gen speed. Others insist that gen rush can only happen when survivors stack enough gen perks and toolboxes + addons.
That being said it is definitely true that a lot of things are called tunneling, camping and gen rushing when that's actually not what happens. Just yesterday I was called out for tunneling because I had 1 person dead at 8 hooks. I'm sorry but if the killer gets too many hooks, someone is going to die. That isn't tunneling, that's how the game works. Other times I get called a camper when I go for someone that I see is coming for the unhook. That is not camping but chasing someone that happens to be near the hook.
What I have noticed is that anti tunnel perks have decreased in pick rate (at least in my matches). I can't say I blame any killer for tunneling, if it is made that easy for them. Although I do not like it. I think the game should be balanced without tunneling and camping but this will take time.
Sometimes people are just salty and will randomly accuse you of doing X "bad" thing to make themselves feel better. That can happen and it is somewhat understandable. What is less understandable is when players go out of their way to harass others for the way they supposedly played or straight out give up (except when it's a Chess Merchant, can't blame you for that) and ruin the match for everyone else. This is particularly bad in solo queue and probably one of the top reasons why solo queue has such a bad reputation.
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The only thing I disagree with is genrushing in this definition.
There's more objectives than just unhooking survivors, you have totems, you have chest, you have healing, you can help your teammates in chase ect. Yes they are optional but they are still there.
If a player(s) is just focused on getting the gens done as efficiently as possible throughout the entire match, with or without builds, they are genrushing. Splitting on gens as soon as the match starts, running straight from gen gen to gen, not helping teammates in chase, ect.
It's not inherently bad, just as tunneling isn't, both sides are just trying their best to win. Which if that's what they want to do then in all fairness that is the point of the game, to win. If its the most efficient way then it is what it is.
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I think its all relative to your perspective. I don't see what the killer or other survivors see, so I base most of the perspective off my own. Anything that happens to you in the game can feel malicious sometimes but I think if you we all just stepped back and looked from a birds eye, it would be pretty obvious that most people are just playing the game the way they want and not to spite others.
Those terms are almost always used negatively, so the people that do the accusing are usually feeling some kind of way. Just GG and tip the hat. Go gettem next time tiger.
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Most games do involve people healing others and taking hits during chase. That's just normal gameplay. Chests and totems though aren't necessary objectives. Chests are useful towards the end of the game, when the items you have brought into the game are depleted and you could really use a medkit or something to help you potentially survive til the end. Totems are useful if you have a boon or the killer has a hex or running Plaything and/or Pentimento - that gives incentive to cleansing totems. Otherwise they're good for bloodpoints and potentially warding off NOED. Survivors avoiding chests and totems does not mean they are genrushing. They're just not necessary for their survival in the same way gens are. In the vast majority of my solo games, the killer has the upper hand. Doing chests and totems can be throwing the game.
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Unhooking, not to camper.
Totems, why should I do a dull if it give me no benefit? Unless its a Hex or I have Inner strength.
Chest is pointless since how weak items are. I dont spend 10sec to open a chest, 24sec to self heal. While I can get a 16sec heal from teammate. Same as 10sec to open a chest, to save 5sec on Gen.
Healing? How can I heal my teammate when they're tunneled?
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That's fine, its the same way not tunneling can very easily be throwing the game if the survivors are good and you're not playing like, Nurse Blight Spirit.
Regardless if you feel like "the survivors only/best logical option is to genrush" it's still what they're doing.
If your games regularly involve people taking hits then that's cool, mine usually don't, people are just glued to gens. Its rare I see anyone go out of their way to help someone else in a chase unless they're SWF.
Healing is mostly done right under hook or sometimes if they go next to the gen you're working on. That's not enough on its own to not be a genrush imo. The same way I wouldn't consider a killer who hits someone once before continuing the focus the same survivor not a tunneler because they took a tiny break from doing it when it was convenient.
I did say they were optional objectives.
Again, not saying its bad. That's how to play survivor efficiently, genrush unless something pushes you to do something else.
If you want to be "nice" you can avoid slamming gens/kills, but its detrimental to do so if you care about winning in the slightest.
Its normal for survivors to genrush, its normal for killers to tunnel. The stigma around trying to win is ridiculous. On both sides.
Post edited by MrPenguin on1 -
Well, like I said they're optional. Regardless of the reason why genrush is genrush.
If you're doing it because you don't feel like doing totems and chest, ok that's understandable, but you're still doing it.
If the killer is tunneling or camping genrush them then, it's the right play. Like I said it's not bad the same way tunneling is not bad. Trying to win isn't "evil".
You can be "nice" and not tunnel/camp/rush, but its actively harmful if you actually care about winning.
Post edited by MrPenguin on0 -
I never see tunneling/camping/gen rushing are toxic. Both sides have reasons. Though killers can totally chase other survivors and still have benefit (eventhough it benefit less than tunneling). Doing a dull totem or searching a chest really give no benefit.
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You could do totems to prevent NOED!
Ahh who am i kidding... with the implemented aura reading there is no point in doing totems as NOED can be found so easily if its actually around.
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So, when one survivor is getting chased, what do you propose the other 3 survivors do? Doing totems is a waste of time if there's no hex in play. Opening Chests is a waste of time if you already have an item.
Genrushing is specifically when survivors bring perks and items to make generators go faster. It is not having "high uptime on gens" or "being glued to gens".
Tunneling is specifically targeting the recently unhooked survivor to remove them from the game as quickly as possible. It is not tunneling if they bodyblock using their endurance to tank a hit. It is also not tunneling if you hook A then B, then A again.
Camping is staying by the hooked survivor to prevent them from being rescued.
Blight was wrong. He didn't get genrushed. He overcommitted to a chase and failed to pressure the other 3 survivors. It is not genrushing if you don't defend your generators and pressure the survivors.
Chasing a survivor applies pressure to one survivor. Hooking a survivor applies pressure to two survivors, as now one survivor needs to jump off gens to get the unhook and heal. Chase one survivor who's on generators, and that's 3 survivors being pressured.
1 Survivor to a Gen is 90 seconds, 2 is 53 seconds, 3 is 42 seconds, 4 is 40 seconds. That's without perks or toolboxes to increase the charges per second. This is why tunneling is so effective. 1v3 means that, at most, you only have two survivors on a generator.
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Doing totems always made NOED stronger, too.
I used to run a dumpster diving build with Plunderer's, Appraisal and Ace-in-the-hole. It was funny, but it did legitimately have a 0% winrate just because chests are a colossal waste of time, even when boosted by those perks.
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Its depend, Im not going to do 4 dulls totem when my teammate being tunneled on last hook at 2-3 Gens and still get Noed in the end.
The 2nd survivor dies to Noed is still better than 3 death and a hatch escape. Where the fault was on me doing dull totems instead of spending all the time to do 2 Gens.
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Doing all the totems takes 70 seconds alone additionally finding them all takes way longer unless you have perks or a map to find them, in the end you would spend a somewhat equivalent amount of time doing dulls for maybe no reason (perhaps you already know what perks the killer has) than you would have to complete at least one or even two gens.
Also not stacking on gens is most of the time just the better play, you don't have lowered efficiency the killer doesn't stop two people from doing gens if he finds the Gen you and another person are on. Most people being items to the game so there is no reason to do chests totems are only worth the time if there are perks in play like hexes or boons and following the chase to eventually take a hit most of the time just is a bad play unless you are a swf and in comms... Bc first how do you know the person needs a hit to be taken, how do you know where you need to take a hit etc. It is just a colossal waste of time to just follow the chase in case you eventually need to take a hit. It has nothing to do with Genrushing when you just sit on a generator by yourself... 3 guys on gens 1 in chase is normal, because literally what else are they supposed to? The side objectives are basically worthless and almost throwing the game because of how time consuming they are while not giving you any value besides blood points.
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Gen-rushing is an interesting term.
It can only really exist if it is considered an unfair, dishonourable tactic that is accepted as a valid strategy, but eliminates elements of the game that create the fun for both sides... I.e. managing chases, saves, heals, hexes, etc. Similar to tunneling, you can't criticise players for simply playing optimally...
I myself attribute the term to an organised team of Commodius Toolboxes with full charge/BNP add-ons, and taking Hyperfocus/Prove Thyself/Built To Last or other gen progression/charge perks, for the express purpose of rushimg generators as fast as possible and get the game over as soon as possible.
Noone has done anything wrong as far as the rules are concerned, we as players consider it cheap and against our imaginary list of rules... which is the same issue with tunneling and camping. Noone is doing anything wrong, it's just a dishonourable way to play...
This is why tournaments have restrictions on survivors taking repeated items and certain add ons.
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I used to do the same! But yeah, now it just seems pointless to have a build dedicated to items.
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No one does totems anymore unless the gates are powered and they are on the way to the gate. Hell, even boons have become rare. So the devs might need to rework/buff totem perks as a generall. Or the whole idea of a optional secondary objective is pointless.
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Well you´re not supposed to do all 5 totems alone. There are 3 other survivors that could totemhunt. IF there was an actual incentive to do them. Which we simply haven´t got. As totem perks are kinda weak and it shows. No one does bones. Everyone does gens only.
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Which is why survivors need an actual secondary objective that ties into doing generators.
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There are other efficient tactics than just tunneling and camping. They're not always optional more like win or lose badly tactics they do not quarantee anything. Decent survivors know to do gens while killer camps and even usually run reassurance. Tunneling you just need to do very fast. When the survivor loops you 5 gens at the end you usually think I should tunneled harder. But it probably was not right play.
They're high risk and high reward tactics. But what separates them is they're most simple. Best tactics is not limit yourself but do what seems best play usually at beginning of match it's smarter to go some chases target 2 survivors. When either of them reach second hook then tunneling is good option and lot less risky if the survivor is in bad spot and lot less pallets left usually.
Still is also best tactics for pipping. Camping and tunneling can result depip even while 4K:ing. But I do think pipping should reworked kills should matter more and depipping standards lowered at least. 4K should be automatic pip.
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Obviously, but you're also not doing all 5 gens on your own but it is still so much additional time spend in the game before you leave through the gates... While gens are rather easy to spot outside of indoor maps it is really rough sometimes to find all totems.
But I agree on the second point it would be nice if you actually had an incentive to do them.
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So, when one survivor is getting chased, what do you propose the other 3 survivors do?
do gen of course. gen-rushing is just naturally part of survivor gameplay. I think you can honestly do all 5 gens in 5-6 minutes depending on the map type/map size without any items. the perks boost speed have nothing to do with that. they exaggerate it. the reason why killer dislike those perks is because those perks promote gen-rushing.... i mean it makes sense. you are equipping a perk to be glued to gens.. because you gain benefit for being glued to gens. your tunneling the objective.
I think main benefits of tunneling is the shortcut to the killer objective. for example, if every chase is 45 second long, anyone can do math behind 7x45 and 12x45. that is why killer tunnel because the second way is unrewarding. tunneling off hook is one of main ways to tunnel as killer but tunneling as a whole is ignoring X survivors and focusing Y survivors. certain killers have incredible chases and can chase survivor anywhere on the map so they might use tunneling as form of gen defence.
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But then what is the difference between gen-rushing and just doing gens?
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remember i said it is 3 survivors glued to gens. difference is number. doing gens is part of the game for survivor. you do not need to think about it. there is nothing wrong with it. is it balanced for survivor to have 3 people on gens the entire game? that is a different discussion.
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But thats why you have to get them off of gens by having one hooked, one going for unhook and one in chase... That is your goal as killer to keep them off of gens... If they are allowed to just sit 3 guys on gens 1 in chase the entire game of course gens are going crazy fast? I don't understand the point... You cannot really call it gen rushing if you cannot pressure the off of gens, bc what else are they supposed to do?
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it takes longer for a killer to find a new chase then it takes for survivor from 4vs1 perceptive to unhook someone and heal them. the time waste is minimal. How long do you think it takes for huntress to leave hook and find new different chase? 30 seconds? how long does it take for survivor to be 20-25 meters away from the hook to run to the hook for unsave? 5 seconds? 10 seconds? also survivor do not need to heal but healing allows you to hold-w for 20 seconds which is 20x3 when your glued to gens. your always positive or massively positive if the killer is taking longer then 16 seconds to injure. healing just requires game-sense and coordination to know when to do it.
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What you're saying is that just doing gens is genrushing, which makes no sense.
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Yes still so what? What else would they do if not gens? And when it is a clever tactical desicion not to heal i would still not call it genrushing since you're just playing rather optimal that's like saying to a killer that they have quick chases, I don't see a problem with being clever about how to do the objective.
Sure the point is correct, but I don't see how it correlates to genrushing, since practically all you're saying is the killer needs to be quick with downs to get enough pressure to keep them from doing gens, but at this point there are regression perks, chase powers, map mobility information perks and all those things to cut down chase time and make survivors take longer for their objective, I still don't see how this has anything to do with gen rushing?
Like I explained before I would call genrushing mindlessly doing gens without tactic or thinking about their position, possibly even 3 genning the survivors in the most negative way, in the sense of it actually hurting the team. Let me give you an example 1 guy is in a chase, one guy is injured and currently healing and also dead on hook and 1 guy is doing a gen at 5 % total... If this guy now does not get the unhook he would be genrushing, since he prefers that objective over the best option, let's also make it more obvious and say the guy is basically right next to the hook and the healing survivor is on the other side of the map, there is no reason for him to not unhook first, it actually hurts the team to stay on the gen without doing it.
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Well I disregard pipping since that's not the actual win condition.
Strictly in terms of killing as many survivors as possible, getting someone out the game ASAP is always the best play. There is no reason to let anyone live longer than they need to as that will be overall detrimental in all cases.
Camping I agree pretty much is only as prevalent as it is because survivors empower it. So in certain groups it's not a good idea. But against most groups it works well enough.
Tunneling however, even if its focusing on 2 survivors back to back or focusing on the weakest link, is always the best decision you can make.
Of course it's not a guarantee, nothing is. Even doing the best tactic available you can lose for a variety of factors. Many out of your control (like the survivors skill level). Just because it doesn't have an 100% winrate doesn't mean its not the best option available.
i.e. Every survivor in the lobby is good and you're on Garden of Joy as Legion? Even using your best available tactic, you can easily lose just due to the map, not even factoring in things like unlucky RNG ect.
Just because the survivors are good doesn't change what the best option for the killer would be. Getting someone out ASAP. The alternative is just letting an additional good player stick around even longer doing more damage.
Post edited by MrPenguin on1 -
Why not?
You're rushing the gens. By necessity that means you have to be doing them.
There's a difference between focusing majorly on gens and not. i.e. totems, chest, goofing around, helpign others in chase
But most players don't care about those things so they just end up genrushing.
Genrush is the natural state of survivor in the game currently and has been for a long time.
Is that wrong? No. Is it a problem? Depends on what you mean. Problem that they're doing it? No they're just trying to win. Problem balance wise? Imo Yes. Problem for the killers "fun"? Yes.
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At first those terms made sense... but now not so much
It's more about efficiency at this point
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If you tunnel right away you might actually tunnel the strongest link that's why it's better to chase others and identifyi the weak link. Sometimes there is not even obvious weak link so then focusing on two might be better. Tunneling on paper might be best for getting someone out but not always in practise.
If the tunneled one runs to let's say garden of joy main building or shack is it worth to chase? But the unhooker runs to deadzone. On blight/nurse tunneling is best option for that as then RNG and survivor skill won't matter as much.
Anyway when I see that -1 it does not feel like a win. Though I don't watch it anymore. But if you want to red grade spreading hooks is best option and tunnel only when you can do it quickly but maybe not at beginning as other survivors might just dc or suicide so then it backfires. But I think pipping needs rework.
Camping still works for few killers like huntress and bubba but for others they just have to watch when survivor is unhooked last second. If you get first down quickly you're quaranteed 2K on bubba and if they make mistake then 3K is possible.
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Genrush is not the natural state of survivor. You're suggesting that doing gens is genrushing. Survivors don't have any need to open chests. There's no point in wasting time on totems if the killer has a hex. Helping someone in chase just means the killer is pressuring two survivors instead of one. Why should survivors goof around for any significant length of time unless they're throwing?
Maybe you missed the part where the killer needs to pressure multiple survivors to get them to slow down on gens. A killer who camps, for example, isn't getting genrushed. He's only pressuring one survivor. What are the other three supposed to do? Politely wait their turn?
You can't "rush" generators if you don't have perks and items to increase repair speed. Multiple survivors working on the same gen isn't genrushing.
I think you don't have any idea what you're talking about, and you're just trying to blur the definition of genrushing.
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No you don't need a build to genrush the same way you don't need a build to tunnel.
It doesn't matter whether the survivors believe totems and chest and w.e. are worth their time or not, the fact of the matter is they're still ignoring them in favor of gens.
The killer doesn't feel like it's worth their time to delay their kill to go chase someone else or kick a gen or w.e.
Does that make it not tunneling? No, they're still doing it regardless.
I didn't miss anything, that part is irrelevant. Its not about pressure it's about the player(s) doing its decision to do so. The killer camping or not doesn't change that the survivors are deciding to focus the gens. It might personally push you into deciding to do it, but you're still doing it.
Of course multiple survivors working on the same gen isn't genrushing, as I said earlier I specified splitting up is. Working on the same gen slows you down, actively detrimental. At least until the end where there's only 1-2 gens left to do.
I think you don't know what you're talking about. Cool now that's canceled out and we can drop ad hominem arguments ty.
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You're kind of off here mate, Generators are their main objectives, not doing optional things that might not do anything for them is supposed to be gen rushing? Come on dude... That would be the same as saying if the killer does not kick every breakalbe door on a map he is kill rushing... Just because it is a side objective does not mean you need to do it, if you play efficient you only do what is necessary to reach your goal, escape. By your definition every survivor team that is just doing gens and then leaving is gen rushing... This does not make any sense. Prioritising gens is literally their goal, the survivors would be doing something wrong if they would do all 5 totems just for the sake of it... Let's say they know all the killers perks, because they are fairly obvious to see, they know have 0 reasons to do the totems, except for the bp, and you're saying they are gen rushing now? Because a. they all have items, so no reason to open chests b. no hex perks or boons or potential noed is in the game so no reason to do totems...
Instead of that you can just say they are genrushing because they are not just standing around doing nothing (usefull) for 70 seconds... Like what do you expect people to do? xD
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Generators are the main objective for survivor and kills are for killer.
Killers getting kills ASAP is tunneling (or kill rushing in your words), the equivalent is survivors getting gens done ASAP which is gen rushing.
I don't expect survivors to "stand around and do nothing", I don't expect killers to spread hooks, I expect them to genrush and tunnel. I never said I want survivors not to genrush. That's the best option to win the game.
Just because its the main objective doesn't change a thing. If anything that's why it's done.
They are gen rushing. Why is that such a big deal? They're trying to win. It is what it is dude.
What I do want is for the devs to change the game so those are no longer the best strats and have it be balanced, especially tunneling. But we're not living in that world nor is that the current point.
Also you're taking it to extremes by saying that the killer has to do absolutely everything possible besides the main objective to not be a tunneller. Extremes are usually not good arguments to make. I never said "you have to do all the totems, chest, heal every injury, help every chase". But if you're minimizing those things to only when necessary in favor of slamming gens, then your gen rushing.
Replace that with killers and kills and its the same. If you're only interacting with other survivors besides the one you're focusing down when necessary or convenient, you're tunneling/kill rushing.
You want the kill ASAP, you want the gen ASAP.
If the playstyles main goal is to RUSH the objective, then they are gen rushing/kill rushing. Which is to be expected, as that's the win condition.
Like I keep saying, you can be "nice" and "fun" and not do that. But you have no real reason to do that. Its not "bad" and the stigma that trying to win is "bad" is ridiculous. On both sides.
Post edited by MrPenguin on2 -
As always, the terrible matchmaking is the real issue. One side or the other is getting stomped because the matchmaking algorithm doesn't even pretend to match up skill, it's all about queue time. Thus, either gens get done in 5 seconds because the killer is overmatched, or the survivors are dropping so fast they think they're getting tunneled when they're just completely overmatched. BHVR could fix a ton of problems with this game if they just fixed matchmaking instead of pretending that's not the main problem and nerfing Pig or Nemesis addons or whatever they do these days.
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I mean, finding the weakest link to then tunnel them is still tunneling. So tunneling is still the best option. Additionally if there is no weak link, then you put yourself in a worse position than if you just tunneled the first guy. In either case tunneling is still the best option.
What do you do if every survivor runs to the main building or shack? Chase no one? Again you'd just put yourself in a worse position than if you just committed.
Yes you can try to avoid it for a weaker player, and that's a gamble you can take. But at the end of the day, not tunneling is only better if one of the survivors is bad and you find them early enough. At that point its not the strategy that's better, it's your opponent who is worse.
Anything can work against bad/worse players.
Its one of the big reasons SWF is such an outlier, they can filter out bad players and make it so there is no weak link.
Imo we should be talking about the game in a state where all the plyers are good at the game, not when there's a skill imposter you have to find.
Again, not saying it cant win to not tunnel, that's how I play and I still win games. But "it can win" and "it's your best shot" are 2 different things.
Post edited by MrPenguin on0 -
You do need a build to genrush. Tunneling doesn't require a build because you're targeting the survivor who's just been unhooked with the intention of removing them from the match.
Survivors ignoring totems and chests because they don't progress their objective is not genrushing. Genrushing is doing generators as fast as possible, which you cannot do without a build. Splitting up on gens is not genrushing. You are not supposed to be able to defend all seven generators for the entire game.
The killer may not feel like it's worth their time to go chase someone else, but the fact of the matter is that if the killer is tunneling, the person being tunneled barely gets to play the game while the other three survivors don't really get to interact with the killer.
If the killer never pressured the other three survivors and got ran for 5 gens, they didn't lose because they got genrushed; they lost because they failed to prevent the survivors from completing their objective.
The survivors objective is to power the exit gates by repairing the generators. Their win condition is escaping.
The killer's objective is to prevent the survivors from completing their objective. Their win condition is to kill all four survivors by any means.
Killers complain that gens go too fast, but how can they be when solos are running perks like Plunderers, Ace in the Hole, Empathy and Bond? The reality is that killers will often ignore their surroundings just to get that one down.
There is no stigma behind trying to win. The stigma behind tunneling and genrushing is because it sucks the fun out of the game for one side. You aren't simply trying to win at that point, because tunneling and genrushing aren't necessary. At that point, you're trying to win as quickly as possible.
A killer doesn't need a build to tunnel because they only need to hook the same survivor three times. Survivors need a build to genrush because it takes 90 seconds to repair a generator solo, 53 seconds for two people, 42 seconds for three, and 40 seconds for four.
Those numbers change depending on the killer's perks, and if the survivors brought toolboxes and perks like hyperfocus. A genrush build could see survivors complete gens solo in 51 seconds or less.
You are blatantly wrong about what genrushing is, and your whole argument is that it's the natural state of survivor when it isn't. Nobody's out here demanding the killer injure all four survivors before committing to a chase. So why should survivors do totems and chests for it to not be genrushing? Spreading your hooks out is not even close to being equal to survivors doing totems and chests.
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OP's post and others also doesn't list that a build is needed.
If you have the dictionary definition somewhere I would like to see it, but afaik there isn't one.
I disagree and think you're the one in the wrong.
At this point we're just not going to agree, I think you have a fundamental misunderstand and you likewise with me. The conversations not going to go anywhere imo.
Post edited by MrPenguin on0 -
Players are going to look at the glass half full / glass half empty when it comes to gen rushing. Me? I see nourishment, something to add life to the trial I'm in. A challenge!
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There is no universally accepted definition of tunneling, camping, or gen rushing. It means something different to everyone. The reason we've had so many definitions is primarily because of salt.
A killer loses a game because they spent 5 minutes chasing one survivor, so they lash out and call the survivors genrushers. A survivor deliberately provokes the killer and repeatedly body blocks using BT after being unhooked, so they lash out in the endgame chat and call the killer a tunneler. Before we got basekit BT and even before BT, survivors would go for unsafe rescues and then blame the killer for not letting them go. There is a history of people blaming their mistakes on others.
The game has evolved so much since then, and with it, our idea of what these strategies actually are. Gen Rush used to refer to bringing a BNP in to instantly complete a generator, and it was gen rushing since the entire team could do it and have all gens completed before the killer could even do anything. The match would be over in 2 minutes.
After BNP got nerfed to instantly consume the toolbox and all its charges for a total of 25% repair progression, the only way to actually gen rush was to use builds that increased the speed at which you could repair generators. This required commodius toolboxes with BNP and Prove Thyself with survivors doubling up on gens. Particularly confident survivors would run No Mither with Resilience for even more repair speed.
Genrushing could also mean prioritizing generators over rescuing a hooked survivor who isn't being camped, but with the changes to hatch and keys, doing that is detrimental rather than beneficial. Most of the old strategies surrounding gen rushing related to how stacked the game was in the survivor's favor. Hatch used to spawn invisible at the start of the match, and survivors could locate it by being observant. They used to be able to use a key to escape early provided enough gens were done.
Genrushing could also refer to what you've said, which is doing generators instead of totems and chests. The only reason to do totems if the killer wasn't running a Hex was to rule out NOED, but aside from that and extra bloodpoints, survivors never really had any incentive to do totems. They don't progress the objective, after all. It was a poorly thought-out secondary objective that relied entirely on survivors willingness to do something entirely optional that provides them with zero benefit.
The only reason to open chests was to try to obtain a key, assuming you didn't bring one, which most did not due to the stigma surrounding keys. Killers would tunnel out the person with the key.
OP's post is contradictory in that they say that it isn't genrushing if the killer loses 3 gens in two minutes, but it is genrushing if survivors don't do "other objectives". By that logic, the killer should never lose 3 gens in two minutes because the survivors should be wasting their time doing totems.
If something isn't beneficial, however, it is a waste of time and every second counts in Dead by Daylight. The killer isn't going to go easy just because people are goofing around. They're just going to consider that an easy win.
It used to be considered camping patroling the hook because somebody's waiting nearby to go for the rescue. It also used to be considered camping if the killer lingered by the hook for more than a second.
It used to be considered tunneling if the killer committed to a chase instead of playing a hit and run playstyle. It used to be considered tunneling if the killer chased you for too long. It used to be considered tunneling if you got hit with old DS.
There have been many definitions, and each one has had its fair share of people who say it's something different while also having it's fair share of people who agree with the definition.
The community will never be able to agree on a single definition. Threads like this one only add to the confusion. Just use common sense. If you've hooked one survivor twice before you've hooked anyone else, and the only thing they did was exist, you tunneled them. If you've hooked Steve, then Bill, then Steve again, that isn't tunneling. It also isn't tunneling if Steve used his BT to take a hit for his rescuer.
If you lost two or more gens in the first 40 seconds of the match, that's a genrush. If you lose two gens after 60 seconds, that's a 2-1 split which isn't a gen rush. If it takes 52.98 seconds to complete a gen with two people, and it takes 90 seconds to complete a generator solo, that's one and a half gens done in 53 seconds.
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Fair enough. If its all subjective though then the words really have no meaning and there's no point even debating about what means what.
IMO if the killer can "killrush" basekit then the survivors can "genrush" basekit. They're playstyles not builds. Anything else would be a double standard.
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As for the tunneling argument being the best strategy I would disagree there because I think it is better to juggle between two survivors for several reasons: 1. The probability of anti tunneling perks coming into effect is drastically lower, and if they still do you know that this survivor was useless to their team for a bigger amount of time 2. You have more pressure while one survivor is on the hook and 3. You still have someone else to go for in case that survivor reaches a really strong setup where you cannot chase him without loosing an exorbitant amount of time (Saloon main building or other really strong buildings).
As for the term Gen rushing again what I think is also a problem is that it is not that easy to spot, tunneling is fairly easy to spot, going for the survivor that just got unhooked and so on. But how would you as killer know what objective they did and what not? Maybe the survivors are just very time efficient or maybe you underestimate the time you chased one survivor... This leads to various situations where it is called genrushing while not being it.
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The difference between tunneling/killrushing and genrushing/gentunneling is the community survivor bias telling every that its bad when the killers do it and fine/normal when survivors do it.
Lol.
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I got called Toxic by streamer because I did a Flashlight save and blinded him twice after it lol. I didn't mean anything by it, it just made the perfect sense to confuse the killer even further and get the teammate out.
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That's weird, I agree there is nothing wrong with it.
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I would rather say that there is no toxic way of holding the left mousebutton on a generator since that is what is expected of you and you cannot really do anything else about it gameplay wise whereas as killer you have the decision of how you play the game do you camp tunnel and so on.
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