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Can we change Lightborn and Sloppy Butcher
I want to nerf these two perks.
Sloppy should have a timer on its effects, I think either 45 seconds or 60 seconds. Or get turned into a Hex.
Too things should happen with Lightborn. First we need to have a accessibility option that will allow us to change the blinding screen to something less headache inducing, l and Lightborn shouldn't provide immunity to flashlights. Especially now that flashlight interactions have been removed. Instead it should do two things. Reveal the blinders aura, and reduce the blinding duration by 50%. (Recovers vision faster.) We need the accessibility option even if the nerf doesn't happen. I am tired of getting headaches occasionally from those blinds. One of my friends can't play killer without Lightborn because of the headaches caused.
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Mangled cannot go back to being a timed effect. Otherwise survivors will just wait out the timer making it just as effective as broken.
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Sloppy butcher into a hex?
Sure, if it makes all survivors start injured with 30 seconds of broken
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Wouldn't mind that that honestly. Keep in mind, most of my playtime is killer. I just look at the other side a lot. Having it like that would be like a reverse terminous. They should probably heal a healthstate after the 30 seconds though, normally that is enough time to down atleast 1 survivor regardless.
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Broken is pretty effective though. Mangled can make it where a survivor cannot heal once in a match if used correctly. It is way too strong on killers who knows what they are doing. Having a timer on it keeps its effectiveness but makes it less punishing.
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Same here. I need lightborn because the blinding gives me a headache. Can't play without it.
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I don't like Sloppy Butcher. It's too much for just 1 perk slot. Imagine if Enduring and Brutal Strength only used up 1 perk slot.
Lightborn's currently bugged right now anyway. Killers can still be blinded (nothing obscures their screen, but their lunge is disabled)
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I don't think we will ever seen Lightborn get changed, it's not a very popular perk. People tend to only use it when a lobby is filled with flashlights.
Sloppy butcher however could be in the next round of perk changes. I am curious to see what you could do to it though. I would assume just remove the mangled status effect and see how it plays out?
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For some reason my brain said that if they did nerf it they wouldnt add a timer, instead they would make it act like forced penance and require protection hits
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... I actually like that as a potential change to the hard counter nature of the perk... immunity to the blind effect, but not the associated stuns.
As a killer I don't like that Lightborn just removes flashlights and flashbangs from the game. Admittedly I wasn't here during the hey day of insta blinds, and the locker blind change was also a great change... so I understand WHY Lightborn is how it is... but I feel like flashlights now are in a pretty fair spot... thus Lightnorn isn't. It takes no skill regarding positioning or area control on my part, I just slap on the perk and that's that.
Pulling off flashlight saves against a competant killer is risky, and can be pretty tough/heavily punished, and players trying it is something I want to encourage: both to reduce gen rush and try to keep the game chase oriented.
If I were to change Lightborn:
- Nerf: You are no longer immune to the blind effect.
- Rework: When blinded, only the outer edges of your FOV are affected. (Literally only enough to indicate you are being blinded for killer feedback).
- Buff: You recover from all light induced stuns (flashlight, flashbang and blast mine) 30/50/70% faster.
This would mean there is counterplay still available to survivors, you CAN still "blind" the killer... but he can still see you, and he's recovering fast, so you can bet he's coming for you xD
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Yes we see people complain all day about MFT-resilience but if devs want to break injured meta sloppy should be nerfed too it's part of the problem, second most used perk and very strong after heal nerfs, it just makes you want to not heal ever..
lightborn is fine imo
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Lol no.
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Agreed. The problem with Lightborn though is that it completely negates an entire side to the game. Someone did actually suggest a good solution above though, take a look at UndeddJesters comment.
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As long as the devs continue try and play weird games with automatic camera movements, Lightborn needs to stay as it is.
If the goal is see players actively outplay each other then they have to facilitate that by leaving camera control in the hands of the player.
Also if the blind effect doesn't happen there is no point in doing the stun.
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Neither of those perks needs a nerf.
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They are fundamentally unhealthy for the game in the same way MFT is now, and Dead Hard, Iron Will, Circle of Healing, Eruption, and original Mettle of Man was. They don't technically need a nerf, but at the same time they don't need to stay the same. We need to have MFT nerfed obviously, but the same can be said for these two as well.
Edit: Forgot NOED, and old Ruin.
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Lightborn is extremely niche and even a bad perk at that. You can avoid flashlights by just being an even remotely decent killers. Lightborn is a wasted perk slot. There's not a single game where it would ever be worth me running Lightborn. We should not be nerfing a perk like that.
Sloppy is not only balanced but healthy for the game. It encourages split pressure and trying to interrupt multiple survivors. That is the exactly game play we want to encourage instead of tunneling someone out. It's not over tuned and easily dealt with. Also the best killers to utilize this perk are m1 killers, which are already the weaker killers in general that need help.
So no, these perks are totally fine. I'd even be closer to buffing Lightborn if anything because of how bad it is.
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Lightborn completely disables one of the fundamental mechanics of the game, at no downside, it isn't even a wasted perk slot. As the survivors only have to try it once. You could be running it in a game with no flashlights, and all the sudden get value from a flashbang, blast mine, or a flashlight found in a box. Lightborn can singlehandedly turn entire games around, and good killers will hide that they have it to the best of their abilities. Causing the people that try for saves and such to keep trying without realizing they can't do anything.
Sloppy doesn't actually encourage split pressure. What instead happens is that the person who is eventually unhooked almost never has time to heal, especially in solo queue. Most of the time people won't use it to split pressure. It can actively encourage tunneling in most cases. If the survivors aren't healing under hook sloppy will constantly remain in play. There truly isn't much survivors can do against sloppy there is barely any real counter play to it outside of bringing something like syringes or running full second chance perks.
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No, thanks.
They're fine as is. Also who even uses Lightborn?
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"Lightborn completely disables one of the fundamental mechanics of the game, at no downside, it isn't even a wasted perk slot."
Literally wrong. A blind isn't a "fundamental mechanic" of the game, it requires you to bring a perk or item. It isn't base kit. The downside is the wasted perk slot. Giving up a perk slot is a huge downside. You never need Lightborn to avoid flashlights. If someone is needing Lightborn then they are making many, many mistakes. IE a skill issue.
"Lightborn can singlehandedly turn entire games around"
No lol, no it doesn't, not even remotely. You can always avoid Blinds at base kit and after it prevents one blind they will know you have the perk and never attempt again, wasted perk slot. You want them to waste time attempting flashlight saves instead of doing gens, it's literally bad to run the perk, it hurts you.
"good killers will hide that they have it to the best of their abilities"
No, they won't, because good killers don't run Lightborn because they realize how bad and counter intuitive it is.
"Causing the people that try for saves and such to keep trying without realizing they can't do anything."
The perk will tell them you have Lightborn after they try to Blind you one time. If you understand how this perk works then you will know that it prevents the scoring event. Having this prevented when they go to Blind tells them you have the perk.
"Sloppy doesn't actually encourage split pressure."
Yes it does. If you tunnel someone you aren't getting value from the perk.
"What instead happens is that the person who is eventually unhooked almost never has time to heal"
If the difference between you getting healed and not is just Sloppy then you are making a misplay healing in a bad position.
" It can actively encourage tunneling in most cases."
It objectively does not, ever.
"If the survivors aren't healing under hook sloppy will constantly remain in play."
If you ever go down healing under hook that was misplay. Healing under hook is a huge risk.
"There truly isn't much survivors can do against sloppy there is barely any real counter play to it outside of bringing something like syringes or running full second chance perks."
You mean like the 16+ healing perks that exist in the game? Oh and medkits.
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Blinds, Stuns, and Generators have been in the game since the very beginning. Blinds are as part of the game as doing a generator is. You can get blinds even without a perk or item at the start by finding them in chests. As for it being a downside. It isn't one, it provides two important things, security and tracking. If you have lightborn you do not have to care if someone goes down in the open or not, nor where they are. The only worry being a possible pallet. Which in some cases may not even be dropped due to a attempted blind. You can also use flashlights to deter the killer from going in a straight line to the hook, especially depending on angles. Lightborn nullifies this. It isn't just a skill issue.
Good Killers can and will occasionally run Lightborn. They normally don't be sure there are more fun perks to use or they want to try a certain build out. You can't actually know if the killer has Lightborn or not because of angles. The only time you can truly tell is if the killer picks up facing you and looks straight into the beamer. Good Killers will still act as if they don't have it to provoke beamers into trying again and again.
Lightborn isn't a waste of a perk slot as you say due to this. If you truly believe that I must ask, how. The gen thing? Survivors will be on gens regardless. Not everyone will constantly look for flashlight blinds. Normally it will be one or two people at max. It is possible to figure out if a killer is running Lightborn. But not immediately.
Now then. Sloppy.
You are getting the value from the perk when you tunnel someone. Unless they are FTP'd they will be unable to heal. If someone bodyblocks and you lose sight of the unhooked survivor, you can track them down, and they will almost always not have a safe location to heal. You also get value from it due to the tunneling in itself. As you slap the bodyblocker that person is affected by sloppy. Making it harder for that person to try to stop you from tunneling.
As for bad positioning? That is only the case for large maps, and even then those large maps normally have wide open areas that can allow you to track the injured survivor. There is such a thing as bad positions to heal. But places that normally would be safe to heal are now risky due to this perk.
Now then. Counter play to it. Healing perks don't matter if you aren't able to capitalize on them in time. Medkits as well. People don't know what they will be against all the time, they normally won't put together a healing build solely to counter one perk they may or may not run into. Sloppy is a general tool that affects every aspect of play due to this. It effects tunneling, it has a large slowdown, and it can counter most builds. There is no way to cleanse the effect outside of a full heal, and even then it is instantly reapplied on the next hit. It is a problematic perk in its current state. It needs to be changed just like MFT and FTP + Buckle Up needs changed.
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I have to write all this on my phone as the PC is currently down till the power is fixed and my fingers are tried. So it might be a while before I reply to your next message. Sorry if I seem aggressive or something similar, I acknowledge your points I just have my own knowledge of the perks doing things differently to what you said. My main thing is that how it currently works both of them are not healthy to the game. Not the balance of them. I just said all that and now my fingers are even more sore, so next message might take a while.
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Well, I can't see why the camera moving requires Lightborn to be unaffected... unless you're saying the stun camera movement causes motion sickness in a minority of people, so now they can't use Lightborn with that change?
Regards to not being stunned as you aren't blindee... I'd rebrand it as "dazzled" in the perk description ;)
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Nerf insane gen repair speed and crazy degreezes of flashlight blinding areas and than speak about nerfing killer perks. Devs overnerfed killers, you have nothing to do for win theese days mate.
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Bro wants to nerf two of the most mediocre perks in the game
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insane skill issue tbh
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You want a lightborn nerf...
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I'm sorry you can't harrass new killers with your flashlights.
Tools that reduce abuse of new players are 100% unhealthy for the game.
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Rework mostly. Insta blinds are not in the game and there are tools to deal with flashlights. They shouldn't be completely negated just significant mitigated. Although if they do that I sincerely hope they add a accessibility option to change the blind screen.
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The tool is Lightborn. Literally the only actual perk that addresses flashlights specifically.
Franklin's is the only other thing that comes close, but it doesn't address the issues caused by Flashlights just that they exist.
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Wait...but like why would Lightborn even need a nerf? Any killer that equips lightborn shoots themselves in the foot because the moment survivors realize they have it, they will just crack on gens instead of trying to go for saves.
Accessibility issues it's a different matter, the solution though would be an option to be able to change the screen color when getting blinded. I don't know how hard would that be to implement though.
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You can pm me and tell where i did miss mate...
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It's fine you don't like a perk etc..
You need to address what perks are buffed to killer to balance things though.
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Can't lie to you, I'm pretty sure I responded to the wrong post or something. I have no recollection of ever seeing this thread.
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As long as you can be blinded by a survivor outside of your field of view, Lightborn should stay.
Mangled and Haemorrhage individually are weak effects.
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lightborn needs a buff
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Sloppy is fine. It’s only really good on already weak killers, what they really gotta do is buff perks that get killed by sloppy.
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This is the most survivor-main take of all time.
Imagine asking to nerf an M1-only healing slowdown perk. As if M1 killers haven't had it hard enough, we must nerf one of the most viable perks for them.
Imagine asking to nerf a niche D-tier perk that can help killers who don't want to deal with random BS.
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