"You can't force people to play the game" When did this become so popular of a saying?

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ExcelSword
ExcelSword Member Posts: 461
edited August 2023 in General Discussions

Seriously, ever since the bots were released, I have heard so many players parroting this.

I admit, the game has unfun issues, things that need to be addressed. Things that are unfun to play against.

But when did everyone decide that it suddenly okay to DC? Why is Dead by Daylight the only game I know that this has apparently become okay?

Seriously, I don't care about forcing people to stay in the game, but it is normal in pretty much every other team based game that isn't free for all with back-fill to punish and decentivise people leaving their matches constantly.

Nobody forces you to stay, but its expected you will be hit with penalties for doing it frequently. These games also have unfun things. I don't like getting instantly sniped out of spawn, or dying to a grenade I never saw.

Again, I understand that the game is unfun at times, but I had a teammate literally kill themselves on hook because they get gen grabbed by a pig. "You can't force him to play the game" Yeah but the devs with the leaver penalty can at least prevent him from immediately queueing into another match where he is free to screw his team out as soon as his ego is bruised.

Post edited by Rizzo on
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  • Ariel_Starshine
    Ariel_Starshine Member Posts: 937
    edited August 2023
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    Well, it's true. You can't force anyone to do anything. You certainly can't force someone to play a video game. What are you going to do, physically force them somehow? If they don't want to play, they won't.

    I mean I agree, people should play if they enter a match! But...they don't, unfortunately ><

    As for me I'm not repeating anything I've read or heard from elsewhere, it's just the truth. We can't force people to do things.

    Also why is my forum stuff in French lol

  • Seraphor
    Seraphor Member Posts: 9,002
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    There will always be 'something' players will complain about.

    This is a pvp game, someone has to lose for someone else to win, and losing is inherently not fun. You make playing survivor too much fun and you'll start haemorrhaging killers that aren't having fun.

    The problem is that DBD players can't take a loss. If they get caught too early or lose too many gens to soon, the game is broken and it's everyone else's fault but their own.

    The game is truly in the most balanced state it's ever been in, and yet players are complaining more than ever. The game will never be "fixed" for those people. You will be forever chasing a "cure for the underlying cause" while your "symptoms" get progressively worse the more effort you waste in doing so.

    I've played for long enough now, and put up with enough frustrations in that time, to realise that the game is what you make it. The matches you play will only be as fun as the attitude you bring into them. If you go into a match expecting to be 'screwed over by the system/other players' then when things inevitably don't go exactly your way, you'll be triggered and upset. If you go into a game willing to play the hand you're dealt and adapt to whatever happens with an open mind you'll enjoy it.

  • bearr_trap
    bearr_trap Member Posts: 120
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    If they dipped just because they were grabbed off of a gen by a stealth Killer then I'd wager they likely have a penalty, that sounds like the actions of a survivor that is either embarrassed to the core or entitled, if not both. I usually call it a temper tantrum.


    I've seen quitters happen even with the game progressed, a perfectly progressed game, 2 gens down even and the Killer finally gets a player down only for that person to DC upon pick up from being the first down or take all their chances on hook and refuse to hit their skill checks once they hit second. I've seen the same happen with no gens done.


    I'll admit if I get tunneled off hook twice even with OTR and meat shields placing themselves between me and the Killer at an early point in the game I'd rather leave and chill out before tapping the Ready button again -- but to leave because I was snatched off the gen all I'm gonna do is say "I don't wanna talk about it" with as straight of a face I can muster without laughing at myself.

  • Nazzzak
    Nazzzak Member Posts: 4,995
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    This.

    OP, you ask 'when is it okay to DC?' Uhhh it's not... that's why there is a DC penalty.

    But fact remains, you can't force someone to play lol unless you go into their house and physically force them to unhook their team mates or keep repairing those gens. If people don't want to play, they won't.

  • Iron_Cutlass
    Iron_Cutlass Member Posts: 3,025
    edited August 2023
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    I personally think people should not be forced to play the game. But I have a standard with it.

    If you DC, I think it is justifiable if you take a break from the game or do some other activity. I think mental and physical health is important, so in those instances, I think it is fine.

    Also, to add onto what I last mentioned, not everyone can just stay in a match, they might not have the time or an emergency can come up, life just happens sometimes, which is perfectly okay.

    However, DCing and loading into another match right after I find to not be acceptable. It shows that rather than learning to play against certain things, youd rather just outright avoid it. It isnt always entitlement, but in most cases it is.

  • Sava18
    Sava18 Member Posts: 2,437
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    But you can pretty much punish people for all forms of trolling, thats the point. DC, Self-unhook, Sandbagging, afking and whatever else. You can make systems to stop this for semi-consistent abusers of those things. You can, just like with any game not play but you will be punished.

  • Pulsar
    Pulsar Member Posts: 20,685
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  • WorthlessBeing
    WorthlessBeing Member Posts: 377
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    I mean, kinda? Isn't losing badly everytime a form of punishment in and of itself?

    On the topic, I agree. Whenever you press the Ready button, you accept that things might not go your way, that you might be the first to die, or that you'll have a boring adversary. That's what you sign for.

    You can't just take the good times and flee at the first sign of a grey cloud. Playing a game and ragequitting on the slightest inconvenience is frankly pathetic imo.

    Which is why I'll argue that the DC penalty should be harsher.

  • Pulsar
    Pulsar Member Posts: 20,685
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    I was responding to a person who wanted to ban people for "forms of throwing" that also just so happen to be things that bad or new players do.

  • WorthlessBeing
    WorthlessBeing Member Posts: 377
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    Oh right. Dumb idea. 6ish years on the game and I still make terrible mistakes.

  • Nazzzak
    Nazzzak Member Posts: 4,995
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    We already have penalties in place and they still don't stop people from DCing. Sandbaggers already can get reported for griefing but that doesnt stop them. BHVR aren't going to police people randomly going afk because there are legitimate reasons why someone may need to. From a business perspective, those people are all still customers and they want them to keep playing. Self-unhooking even, it's a mechanic that can come in clutch and missing skill checks isn't a crime, it still happens to me sometimes. They aren't going to punish that.

  • ExcelSword
    ExcelSword Member Posts: 461
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    Self-unhooking is a loophole to the DC penalty, but it still has it's place in the game as it is thematic. I think it should be changed so that you no longer have your hook time reduced, but still penalized with a debuff after you are unhooked. What the debuff is, doesn't really matter honestly.

    This would reduce the impact of people just abusing it to leave, while still making it a gameplay option in rare scenarios.

  • Raconteurminator
    Raconteurminator Member Posts: 618
    edited August 2023
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    The underlying cause is, for the most part, an hilariously large sense of entitlement; a group of people who will never be happy unless everything goes their way 100% of the time. Making changes to accommodate that entitlement won't make it go away, it'll just make it worse. Banning people maybe isn't a long term solution, but giving in to entitlement will never be the solution to anything at any point.

    I've had people tell me in end-game chat that they refused to play because I was 'tunnelling' despite the fact I only hooked them once and they elected to die on hook immediately. I've had people do the same because Trickster is apparently the most OP Killer in the game, or CI is broken or Bamboozle is broken, etc. How do we balance the game around that mentality? These are, every single one I've encountered, people looking for an excuse to quit and join a new lobby. When I play Survivor, let's use your numbers, 19 out of 20 games are miserable for me to play not because of the Killer but because some entitled brat dies on first hook. That puts the rest of us in the situation where we either have to struggle through an unwinnable game or just call it quits then and there.

    I put it to you, if people are quitting at the slightest hint of inconvenience to go join another game and another and another, then the player base isn't even remotely functional - it's broken. And they're the ones breaking it.

  • Sava18
    Sava18 Member Posts: 2,437
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    Reports really don't do anything. The point is consistent behavior prevention. There might be a legitimate reason someone needs to get up, but if it's consistent enough to receive harsh punishments you shouldn't be playing. You can talk about it like a business perspective but it becomes irrelevant when you look at league, their punishment's and realize they are a top three game easily in the world. People can't be consistently troll or be toxic in league without running into a 2 week or 4 week or ban. It's not to say there is no forgiveness outside of racial slurs but there is an extent where they realize you are only being detrimental to their profits but extension.

    When you remove these players that negatively impact other players, you severely reduce a snowball affect of tilt. People who defend self unhooks often mention people who get bad games on repeat and who reach their limit, other players self unhooking in previous games are a big part of that.

    I didn't imply that even a little, you would have to be so abysmally bad to meet the specifications I know you have read in the past, and I had mentioned back then that chase/slug/hook time wouldn't count and that I mentioned before that there would be a required playtime before these penalties would affect anyone.

  • HarlockTaliesin
    HarlockTaliesin Member Posts: 763
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    Though there are a number of reasons people DC/suicide out of trials, the above two bits of info fairly well cover it. Please review these two posts for any info you need. Whether you personally agree or disagree is entirely irrelevant.

    I'd very much like for BHVR to set aside a week for the game to have no DC penalties as a test. Though more people will leave trials than usual, I've no doubt whatsoever there will be a 95%+ drop in the number of hook suicides, which will leave a bot available to help out for the rest of the trial.

    Since this seems to be the biggest gripe about people leaving trials, I suspect the amount of whining over it on the forums will also decrease.

  • Dustin
    Dustin Member Posts: 2,260
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    Seriously, ever since the bots were released, I have heard so many players parroting this.

    I've heard people say this since 2016 about DC'ing - It occasionally gets mentioned in conversation but it's more the community going full circle on their opinion for the game.

  • MrsGhostface
    MrsGhostface Member Posts: 987
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    Games are meant to be fun… I’m sorry but I’m on the side of you can’t force people to play. I don’t blame people for wanting to do something else if they’re not enjoying what’s happening.

  • HoodedWildKard
    HoodedWildKard Member Posts: 2,013
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    Tru dat.

    Reminds me of my funniest DCs. I'd seen 3 torches in lobby so I switched to lightborn. Got my first down, and sure enough as I'm picking up, a nea emerges from the shadows for a flashlight save. Soon second or two after I finish pickup and start moving to a hook I hear the DC sound. Assumed the surv I picked up ragequit and start trying to find the nea but then suddenly i get stunned and an injured surv is running away.

    The Nea DCd the second she realised I had lightborn. I never even layed a finger on her 🤣 ironically it caused me to drop the survivor I was carrying which is what she was trying to do. Always gives me a chuckle.

  • Pulsar
    Pulsar Member Posts: 20,685
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    They'll have them.



    I'd trade my solo q teammates for a bot unironically though lol

  • Rizzo
    Rizzo Member, Administrator, Mod Posts: 17,468
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    Let's keep the discussion civil and constructive, thank you.

  • Ryuhi
    Ryuhi Member Posts: 3,733
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    You've seen how exploitable bot AI is, right? joke about them being better than average survivors all you want, but they can be railroaded harder than any baby meg.

  • JoeyDonuts
    JoeyDonuts Member Posts: 106
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    Keep in mind, it's only a team game if you decide you want to work as a team. It isn't a pure 4 v 1.

  • Ryuhi
    Ryuhi Member Posts: 3,733
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    You're not making a strong case for people who would rather play with humans who are less predictable by default.

  • Pulsar
    Pulsar Member Posts: 20,685
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    Well, it's either that or completely remove any penalty, which I also don't mind.


    Just thought I'd try to compromise.

  • FilthyLegionRevival
    FilthyLegionRevival Member Posts: 306
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    Well look at you, Mr. My internet is so consistent. It isn't just for the sake of being angry. Some of us genuinely have bad connections where we live. That mean we're just supposed to ######### off?

  • Mr_K
    Mr_K Member Posts: 9,130
    edited August 2023
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    So you want the entire system to be around the poorest connection possible? No, that's not how the world works. You may be legit but there are thousands that want to DC without penalty on demand. From my original post, other PvP games are stricter than BHVR in this regard. Other games will ban your account for doing what a lot of dbd players are doing.

    I'm not saying bhvr should adopt these policies. I'm saying that some punishment is required for quiters for the health of the game.

    Post edited by EQWashu on