"You can't force people to play the game" When did this become so popular of a saying?
Seriously, ever since the bots were released, I have heard so many players parroting this.
I admit, the game has unfun issues, things that need to be addressed. Things that are unfun to play against.
But when did everyone decide that it suddenly okay to DC? Why is Dead by Daylight the only game I know that this has apparently become okay?
Seriously, I don't care about forcing people to stay in the game, but it is normal in pretty much every other team based game that isn't free for all with back-fill to punish and decentivise people leaving their matches constantly.
Nobody forces you to stay, but its expected you will be hit with penalties for doing it frequently. These games also have unfun things. I don't like getting instantly sniped out of spawn, or dying to a grenade I never saw.
Again, I understand that the game is unfun at times, but I had a teammate literally kill themselves on hook because they get gen grabbed by a pig. "You can't force him to play the game" Yeah but the devs with the leaver penalty can at least prevent him from immediately queueing into another match where he is free to screw his team out as soon as his ego is bruised.
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Because some people don’t believe in comebacks anymore and are entitled. The people who DC or suicide on hook have their own idea of the DBD they want to play. When the game doesn’t turn out to be the DBD they want to play at the start, they DC or suicide.
I played against a duo before as Nemesis back before dead hard got nerfed months ago. They immediately DC after one of them failed their DH after running to me injured.
Last week I got queued with the same duo as Survivor against Legion. One of them lost the first chase and immediately DC while the other suicided on hook.
There’s probably lots of people who play like this out there and will never get punished for it apart from a queue penalty timer. PVP games don’t start and end in your favor all the time but some people just don’t understand that.
Edit: I got tombstoned by a Myers with 4 gens left on GOJ, my team split up on gens, forced hooks insteads of mori and eventually got a 3 man out. Pretty sure the defeatists would have DC-ed and called it an unwinnable game.
Post edited by appleas on20 -
i don't care what excuse these players give... it will never be ok to ######### over your team.
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Is it okay? No. But is it true? Yes.
If someone has decided, "Nope, I'm not playing this", you cannot force them to. They will go around sandbagging, DC, unalive on hook, or just alt tab AFK and do something else. People will always act like petulant children and throw their toys out the pram the moment they feel a whif of some minor inconvenience, so the best thing to do is to take this into account when designing game systems to screw over everyone else as little as possible.
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Some games outright ban you if you go afk or purposefully throw. For BHVR to just slap you on the wrist for DCing is very mild punishment.
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Well, it's true. You can't force anyone to do anything. You certainly can't force someone to play a video game. What are you going to do, physically force them somehow? If they don't want to play, they won't.
I mean I agree, people should play if they enter a match! But...they don't, unfortunately ><
As for me I'm not repeating anything I've read or heard from elsewhere, it's just the truth. We can't force people to do things.
Also why is my forum stuff in French lol
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What's funny is these people insist they should be able to not play DBD, but they still chose to queue up. You would think they would take their own advice and not force themselves to play a game they aren't enjoying.
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No, but if they decide they want to stop playing the game whenever they feel like it, then it should be fair for BHVR to stop them from playing the game whenever they do feel like it. Every other game bans people with timers for leaving, DBD should be no different.
I mostly hate this because it seems like everyone is saying that it is fine for them to immediately re-queue into another game as if they didn't just screw over their last teammates.
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If they got tilted and decided they didn't want to play, that's fine. D/C, close the game, play something that doesn't get them so tilted. Perfectly reasonable, perfectly understandable. Thing is, we all know it's not true. They wanted to play 20 seconds ago and they'll want to play again in 20 seconds time. It's not that they 'don't feel like playing' any more, it's that they don't feel like playing when things aren't going their way for a fraction of a second.
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Because people understand the difference between description and prescription.
I'm probably the most vocal member on the forum going so far as believing that the DC penalty should be flat out removed or significantly decreased so that only really notorious abusers get significant bans.
And yet I am also frustrated by survivors killing themselves on hook just because they are going up against a Legion. I want this game to be fun. I understand that as long as the developers don't do anything, people WILL find a way to not play a match that they are not enjoying. You can come up with the most convoluted ways of forcing some poor Solo players to be a Blight's bloodpoint pinata, but I guarantee you that those pesky survivors will come up with a way to get out of the match as soon as possible.
You don't treat symptoms, you treat the underlying cause. And the underlying cause is that the game is miserable to play about 19 out of 20 games and the only thing keeping the playerbase at a level even close to functioning is the fact that we can go next when we get the sixth 5k+ hour Blight main clapping everyone at five gens remaining.
Separate the sweat, balance the game, just do SOMETHING, because banning people will not be a solution in the long term.
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It's the rallying call of players who believe they should be able to ragequit at the slightest provocation regardless of how it ruins the games for other players.
Kind of like the survivor version of killers saying "I'm not responsible for your fun"
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LOL, lots of people here whose idea of a good time is getting hooked in the first 5 seconds of the game and spending the next 2 minutes watching their teammates hide in lockers as they die on the hook.
A great thing about PTB is that there's no DC penalty, so if I see that I've gotten into that predicament I can just DC and immediately find another match and try again. And with bots I know that if someone DOES get around to unhooking my character, there will at least be a bot to play the rest of the match and give them a fighting chance.
Without DC penalty, if I want out I DC and am replaced by a bot. With DC penalty, if I want out I have to hook suicide and the survivors are down one player. DC penalty actually makes it WORSE for the survivors who stay in the game.
DC penalty is just another one of the billion poorly-thought-out things that makes solo q a terrible experience, but has zero bearing on SWF where the game actually has problems.
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Yes, 'you can't force people to play the game' is true.
The problem is that DBD players are fickle and will choose to 'not play the game' for some truly pathetic reasons.
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I'm not sure why you keep queueing up to play a game if you are just looking for a reason to quit out of the match early.
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There will always be 'something' players will complain about.
This is a pvp game, someone has to lose for someone else to win, and losing is inherently not fun. You make playing survivor too much fun and you'll start haemorrhaging killers that aren't having fun.
The problem is that DBD players can't take a loss. If they get caught too early or lose too many gens to soon, the game is broken and it's everyone else's fault but their own.
The game is truly in the most balanced state it's ever been in, and yet players are complaining more than ever. The game will never be "fixed" for those people. You will be forever chasing a "cure for the underlying cause" while your "symptoms" get progressively worse the more effort you waste in doing so.
I've played for long enough now, and put up with enough frustrations in that time, to realise that the game is what you make it. The matches you play will only be as fun as the attitude you bring into them. If you go into a match expecting to be 'screwed over by the system/other players' then when things inevitably don't go exactly your way, you'll be triggered and upset. If you go into a game willing to play the hand you're dealt and adapt to whatever happens with an open mind you'll enjoy it.
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If they dipped just because they were grabbed off of a gen by a stealth Killer then I'd wager they likely have a penalty, that sounds like the actions of a survivor that is either embarrassed to the core or entitled, if not both. I usually call it a temper tantrum.
I've seen quitters happen even with the game progressed, a perfectly progressed game, 2 gens down even and the Killer finally gets a player down only for that person to DC upon pick up from being the first down or take all their chances on hook and refuse to hit their skill checks once they hit second. I've seen the same happen with no gens done.
I'll admit if I get tunneled off hook twice even with OTR and meat shields placing themselves between me and the Killer at an early point in the game I'd rather leave and chill out before tapping the Ready button again -- but to leave because I was snatched off the gen all I'm gonna do is say "I don't wanna talk about it" with as straight of a face I can muster without laughing at myself.
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Because it's true.
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Entitlement is a hell of a drug.
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This.
OP, you ask 'when is it okay to DC?' Uhhh it's not... that's why there is a DC penalty.
But fact remains, you can't force someone to play lol unless you go into their house and physically force them to unhook their team mates or keep repairing those gens. If people don't want to play, they won't.
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I personally think people should not be forced to play the game. But I have a standard with it.
If you DC, I think it is justifiable if you take a break from the game or do some other activity. I think mental and physical health is important, so in those instances, I think it is fine.
Also, to add onto what I last mentioned, not everyone can just stay in a match, they might not have the time or an emergency can come up, life just happens sometimes, which is perfectly okay.
However, DCing and loading into another match right after I find to not be acceptable. It shows that rather than learning to play against certain things, youd rather just outright avoid it. It isnt always entitlement, but in most cases it is.
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But you can pretty much punish people for all forms of trolling, thats the point. DC, Self-unhook, Sandbagging, afking and whatever else. You can make systems to stop this for semi-consistent abusers of those things. You can, just like with any game not play but you will be punished.
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You can't punish people for being bad at the game lol
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I mean, kinda? Isn't losing badly everytime a form of punishment in and of itself?
On the topic, I agree. Whenever you press the Ready button, you accept that things might not go your way, that you might be the first to die, or that you'll have a boring adversary. That's what you sign for.
You can't just take the good times and flee at the first sign of a grey cloud. Playing a game and ragequitting on the slightest inconvenience is frankly pathetic imo.
Which is why I'll argue that the DC penalty should be harsher.
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I was responding to a person who wanted to ban people for "forms of throwing" that also just so happen to be things that bad or new players do.
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Oh right. Dumb idea. 6ish years on the game and I still make terrible mistakes.
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We already have penalties in place and they still don't stop people from DCing. Sandbaggers already can get reported for griefing but that doesnt stop them. BHVR aren't going to police people randomly going afk because there are legitimate reasons why someone may need to. From a business perspective, those people are all still customers and they want them to keep playing. Self-unhooking even, it's a mechanic that can come in clutch and missing skill checks isn't a crime, it still happens to me sometimes. They aren't going to punish that.
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What I meant was when was it okay to defend a person DCing just because they got their egos bruised.
I don't want to force people to play the game. If they got tilted, I would rather they take a break. If they have a family emergency, I would rather they go and make sure that is addressed. Nobody minds the DC penalty in those situations, bc IRL situations are more important.
What is baffling is people leaving at the drop of the hat because they got outplayed, and then immediately re-queuing, and if I discuss this outside of the forums, everyone immediately comes to that person's defence with "you can't force them to play the game".
EDIT: Seriously, go visit reddit or twitter. So many people arguing to remove the DC penalty so they can leave whenever they want.
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Self-unhooking is a loophole to the DC penalty, but it still has it's place in the game as it is thematic. I think it should be changed so that you no longer have your hook time reduced, but still penalized with a debuff after you are unhooked. What the debuff is, doesn't really matter honestly.
This would reduce the impact of people just abusing it to leave, while still making it a gameplay option in rare scenarios.
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The underlying cause is, for the most part, an hilariously large sense of entitlement; a group of people who will never be happy unless everything goes their way 100% of the time. Making changes to accommodate that entitlement won't make it go away, it'll just make it worse. Banning people maybe isn't a long term solution, but giving in to entitlement will never be the solution to anything at any point.
I've had people tell me in end-game chat that they refused to play because I was 'tunnelling' despite the fact I only hooked them once and they elected to die on hook immediately. I've had people do the same because Trickster is apparently the most OP Killer in the game, or CI is broken or Bamboozle is broken, etc. How do we balance the game around that mentality? These are, every single one I've encountered, people looking for an excuse to quit and join a new lobby. When I play Survivor, let's use your numbers, 19 out of 20 games are miserable for me to play not because of the Killer but because some entitled brat dies on first hook. That puts the rest of us in the situation where we either have to struggle through an unwinnable game or just call it quits then and there.
I put it to you, if people are quitting at the slightest hint of inconvenience to go join another game and another and another, then the player base isn't even remotely functional - it's broken. And they're the ones breaking it.
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Reports really don't do anything. The point is consistent behavior prevention. There might be a legitimate reason someone needs to get up, but if it's consistent enough to receive harsh punishments you shouldn't be playing. You can talk about it like a business perspective but it becomes irrelevant when you look at league, their punishment's and realize they are a top three game easily in the world. People can't be consistently troll or be toxic in league without running into a 2 week or 4 week or ban. It's not to say there is no forgiveness outside of racial slurs but there is an extent where they realize you are only being detrimental to their profits but extension.
When you remove these players that negatively impact other players, you severely reduce a snowball affect of tilt. People who defend self unhooks often mention people who get bad games on repeat and who reach their limit, other players self unhooking in previous games are a big part of that.
I didn't imply that even a little, you would have to be so abysmally bad to meet the specifications I know you have read in the past, and I had mentioned back then that chase/slug/hook time wouldn't count and that I mentioned before that there would be a required playtime before these penalties would affect anyone.
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Though there are a number of reasons people DC/suicide out of trials, the above two bits of info fairly well cover it. Please review these two posts for any info you need. Whether you personally agree or disagree is entirely irrelevant.
I'd very much like for BHVR to set aside a week for the game to have no DC penalties as a test. Though more people will leave trials than usual, I've no doubt whatsoever there will be a 95%+ drop in the number of hook suicides, which will leave a bot available to help out for the rest of the trial.
Since this seems to be the biggest gripe about people leaving trials, I suspect the amount of whining over it on the forums will also decrease.
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Seriously, ever since the bots were released, I have heard so many players parroting this.
I've heard people say this since 2016 about DC'ing - It occasionally gets mentioned in conversation but it's more the community going full circle on their opinion for the game.
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"Self-unhook, Sandbagging, afking and whatever else."
New players will try to kobe. Some players might run a luck build.
New players have no idea what's going on. Bad players might sandbag on accident. I've certainly sandbagged people on accident whilst trying to take a hit for them. Heck, I've sandbagged my friends on purpose because it was silly.
Some people have this thing called real-life responsibilities. They shouldn't be banned for attending to them.
You clearly want to ban people for not playing with you. In your hatred, you've damned many more people in this idea.
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Games are meant to be fun… I’m sorry but I’m on the side of you can’t force people to play. I don’t blame people for wanting to do something else if they’re not enjoying what’s happening.
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I highly doubt the percentage of people that have "real life emergencies" everyday is high enough to justify removing dc penalties.
A good majority of DCs are either because you got outplayed , went against a killer you don't like etc etc.
Just like you, other 4 people waited in Queue to get a dbd match , and its not reasonable to ruin the match for 4 other people because your ego got bruised over being outplayed.
A forfeit vote after one DC would be a healthier option as a whole. Entitled survivor gets the timeout, the other 4 players can requeue for a proper match.
If youre not having a good time in DBD, take the 30 minute timer to chill out instead of requeing to ruin another match.
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The bots are better than most players.
Remove DC penalties. This encourages players to give there team a bot. However, prevent players from re-queing until the bot dies or escapes.
Everyone's happy. The player isn't stuck in a match they don't want to be in, their team isn't screwed over and neither is the Killer. Everyone's happy except for the people with zero empathy and people who enjoy making other people miserable.
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...and people who want human opponents/teammates in a pvp game?
nah, demonize them too. /s
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Tru dat.
Reminds me of my funniest DCs. I'd seen 3 torches in lobby so I switched to lightborn. Got my first down, and sure enough as I'm picking up, a nea emerges from the shadows for a flashlight save. Soon second or two after I finish pickup and start moving to a hook I hear the DC sound. Assumed the surv I picked up ragequit and start trying to find the nea but then suddenly i get stunned and an injured surv is running away.
The Nea DCd the second she realised I had lightborn. I never even layed a finger on her 🤣 ironically it caused me to drop the survivor I was carrying which is what she was trying to do. Always gives me a chuckle.
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They'll have them.
I'd trade my solo q teammates for a bot unironically though lol
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You've seen how exploitable bot AI is, right? joke about them being better than average survivors all you want, but they can be railroaded harder than any baby meg.
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Keep in mind, it's only a team game if you decide you want to work as a team. It isn't a pure 4 v 1.
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They can also absolutely destroy any ranged Killer, probably too well tbh.
Wallhacks are not to be underestimated.
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You're not making a strong case for people who would rather play with humans who are less predictable by default.
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If you think AI survivors are better teammates, then just play customs.
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Remove DC penalties. This encourages players to give there team a bot. However, prevent players from re-queing until the bot dies or escapes.
So players who don't want to wait until the bot dies or escapes will continue to just kill themselves on hook. How does that change anything? This will only reinforce childish, immature behaviors like disconnecting right before the player is sacrificed or moried.
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Well, it's either that or completely remove any penalty, which I also don't mind.
Just thought I'd try to compromise.
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Well look at you, Mr. My internet is so consistent. It isn't just for the sake of being angry. Some of us genuinely have bad connections where we live. That mean we're just supposed to ######### off?
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Your "compromise" is simply yielding to the whims of children who are the type to throw tantrums at the drop of a hat. We actually don't want those types of people polluting majority of the matches because they are ultimately detrimental to this game. We want them gone. Personally I rather have a much smaller population of quality adults (at least emotionally and mentally) to play with. And the children need to learn that if they are that unhappy with the game to the point of quitting frequently in middle of matches, they need to move on to other games. That would be a win-win for everyone.
Moreover, this is first and foremost an online multi-player game. People are here to play with other people, and bots will never be able to replace that. It won't matter how good the bots become, or how awful the other players play.
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Do you want me to believe survivor's internet just so happens to flake out the very moment they go down? Right before their last hook? Yeah, sure, nearly all DCs are because of bad internet. Rage quiting is a myth.
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So you want the entire system to be around the poorest connection possible? No, that's not how the world works. You may be legit but there are thousands that want to DC without penalty on demand. From my original post, other PvP games are stricter than BHVR in this regard. Other games will ban your account for doing what a lot of dbd players are doing.
I'm not saying bhvr should adopt these policies. I'm saying that some punishment is required for quiters for the health of the game.
Post edited by EQWashu on1
