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Legion: The lost concept as a mostly useless easter egg
Just posting this for a fun discussion... this is not an actual suggestion....
Its fascinating looking back at the release of Legion, the Killer had so much hype surrounding the idea of impersonating survivors in the game, that had technical limitations preventing the idea from becoming a reality.
I personally run a pretty humble skin on Legion, Frank's Smeared Smirk with Julie's Checkered Past:
At a glance this skin does look quite a lot like a regular survivor, which is why I like it... but it got me thinking... and again I'm not making this as a serious suggestion...
How much fun would it be if Legion, along with feral frenzy, could just enter survivor mode?
Press the Killer secondary ability button/key, and rather than disguising as an existing survivor (like the original concept), just simply put away the knife, lose the TR (or make is 16m if legit eanting it for memes) and move like a 4.0m/s regular running animation survivor? Press the action key/button to use the animations of gens and vault pallets as a survivor would.
Now that changes Legion considerably right? Makes them more like a stealth killer? Here's the kicker. While in survivor mode, you can only enter feral frenzy. Pressing the secondary killer ability to return to regular mode stuns Legion in the same was as feral frenzy does, and puts FF on cooldown.
I tend to go friendly at 2 or 3 kills, but I couldn't help but smile thinking of Legion peacing up to a survivor on a gen and start working on it next to them for shits and giggles. XD
It'd be an addition that pretty much does nothing you could seriously get an advantage from with anyone halfway paying attention, and mostly Legion remains the same, go for wounds on survivors, and then m1 them down for hooks. Being stealthy and slow doesn't help your game plan at all... but it'd be funny, and bring some much needed levity back to DbD xD
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SWF and you have suddenly no power. That's what prevent any shapeshifting killer from existing.
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Shapeshifting as a disguise doesn't really work as a power itself. You are better off having the undetectable status effect and most killers who can go undetectable have other abilities to their powers besides just undetectable.
Not to mention, survivors got updates to their hud, so it's a lot easier to keep track of your teammates that a killer disguised as someone else is going to be hard to fool survivors on.
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yup.
the only way truly shapeshifting killer could exist is it being a glorified pig's crouch which doesn't really try to fool anybody into thinking the killer is a survivor and is just a gimmicky way of saying "killer can remove TR, but has to move slower".
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It would definitely be interesting to adjust from first person to third if you could basically be a survivor while playing killer.
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Hehehe, all your points above are ofc why you can't add a killer like this... it's a cool idea that doesn't work in practise.
It could never be something to factor seriously into actual game balance. If it were to ever exist, would only be added as a means to goof with survivors and have some fun 😏
You may notice nothing else in Legions kit gets touched... at the end of it all, Legion is still Legion, and should be played how he is currently... but being given the ability to make your Legions animations and movement like that of a survivor would be an amusing Easter Egg to harken back to the original idea if one were to take it seriously.
Who knows... maybe you may even briefly fool someone before you go back to frenzying as per usual... 🤣
Literally no reason for BHVR to do it, other than maybe for a April Fools gag or something 😁
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"Its fascinating looking back at the release of Legion, the Killer had so much hype surrounding the idea of impersonating survivors in the game, that had technical limitations preventing the idea from becoming a reality"
No one, and I mean no one thought Legion was going to impersonate Survivors. The very first theory that came around was a multi personality killer as one of the teasers we had gotten was this:
A single person looking in a mirror, multiple reflections looking back, with the caption "Within darkness, lies a legion". The only other teaser we had gotten for Chapter 10 was of a snowy resort, which we now know to be Ormond.
Legion impersonating Survivors was an idea that started floating around after the game awards of 2018, specifically because thats when the trailer came out
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Fascinating! I wasn't aware of community reaction to that teaser. I was of the impression the 4 Legion characters in the Chapter Splash, and ofc the trailer cemented that idea pretty quick, then had to be ditched, mostly cause of the points above. The more you know.
Ardetha does a nice breakdown of Legion's release, which was my first introduction looking at the character.
Kinda bonkers seeing the power how it was on release... yikes 😅
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the trailer in question, which absolutely made it look like Legion's power was gonna be "pretend to be a survivor".
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Yeah I've been around for quite some time now, so I have a good bit of knowledge when it comes to these kind of things
Those videos posted above does do a decent job, al though it does get a few things wrong (such as what was mentioned previously, and other videos like them are similar)
How most people did play Legion wasn't the Moonwalking way but the chase way which was just as frustrating to play against. Didn't matter how good you were as Survivor, nothing you could do to stop a Legion from popping his power when you were at a window or pallet to get another hit. One thing that made this more effective and actually some what work is the fact that Legion didn't have to wait for their power to be fully recharged in order to use it, they just needed 10%. Pair that up with a faster recharge of 15 seconds from full use and you could do literally nothing to avoid a Legion who wanted you down.
Old DbD is something I love talkin about btw so if you got anymore questions, go right ahead! :)
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Hah! I may just take you up on that!
I dig through a lot of the old patch notes, old content videos, and discussions around this game. I'm a new player, so I've nor been round long enough to see majority of chapter releases. Following back through the trail of changes and working out/understanding why those changes were made is really enjoyable to me.
Suppose this thread should stay on topic with Legion really, I may PM you from time to time if thats ok XdlD
One consistent theme I see in a lot of older content is the player base wasn't as skilled back then. With old Legion and this idea of no counters, was spin teching not really a known thing back then or was there some other element that made it harder to do? I know when I've played Legion, I have had my feral frenzy countered by this, and had to learn pretty quick to be more cagey about hits... 😅
Wasn't there also an add on that increased the deep wound reduction value? Was it Frank's mix tape? I've heard a legend about a pretty famous streamer who straight up banned everyone who ran that add-on on Legion xD
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Oh yeah for sure! If you have any other questions go ahead and shoot me a DM!
As for 360's, they can be a little difficult to deal with at first but with time they become very easy to deal with. They were a known thing back then how ever they were then and still used as a last ditch effort at getting away. It also didnt really work against Legion since his power didn't cancel upon a missed attack in Frenzy. In fact it was actually a known thing to constantly lunge and whiff while in Frenzy since you would gain more distance that way.
Also you are indeed correct about Frank's Mixtape. Without it, Legion needed to stab a Survivor 4 times before they went down. With it, its only 3 times. The numbers were the following: Deep Wound Timer was 30 seconds, (nowadays its 20 seconds) and a hit on some one already suffering from Deep Wounds would take off 10 seconds. Add on Franks Mixtape, and it took off 15 seconds. One thing that would make the moonwalking build effective (just made the process quicker) was another add on; Stab Wounds Studies, which took off 5 seconds when initially applying Deep Wounds to a Survivor. This add on was basically only good for that tho and was pretty useless otherwise
How ever, there was a PTB where the devs wanted to try to fix one of Legion's issues, that issue being the lack of healing that Survivors did/still do since it just wasn't worth it with how easy he can hit you. So what they tried was when The Legion would stab a Survivor in Frenzy and they were already injured, their timer was 20 seconds instead of 30 seconds. May not seem that significant at first, but people soon realized that if you pair that with Stab Wounds Studies and Franks Mixtape, and you could basically instadown Survivors. Luckily, that never got pass the PTB and Legion remained unchanged that patch.
Post edited by Shroompy on1 -
Didn't cancel!? Woooooooow. That's insane xD
Ooooof... instant down from frenzy... there is a lot of pain there... The bitterness some folks have toward this game is a little more understandable xD
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Man, people don't even try to give this idea some thought, they just instantly jump to "SWF no power lol".
Let's imagine that the devs actually added this to legion, as a second ability. This is how it would actually play out:
Survivor in a comms group working on solo gen in a jungle gym, with little sightlines.
Disguised legion approaches gen unseen.
Legion rounds corner to gen.
Survivor sees and says: hey guys, is this you- STAB.
Legion stabbed you before you even got your words out and runs off in frenzy.
Seriously, people act having no Terror Radius is not even a power. You can literally pull off the same thing as ghostface, only this would be better than GF because you don't immediately start sprinting for 0.25 - 0.5 seconds when the killer rounds the corner.
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Yeah, which only came out a few weeks after the PTB came out where we already knew basically everything that was needed to know
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only us cool kids who play PTBs. The general public only had that trailer to go on. :D
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wouldnt be too hard to hijack the hud, thats never a good argument against this.
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Because we need to make a killer that makes solo survivor experience worse. The HUD was added to help bridge the gap between Solo and SWF. We don't need a killer to remove it.
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On this Shapeshifting point, does anyone have the trailer where Legion actually shapeshifted from a survivor to Legion while in view of the camera? I am probably Mandela affecting myself here, but I'm sure I saw it at some point where Legion shifted from a Feng min or something to Legion....
OFC in this thread, I've never said shapeshifting, I've only said having Legion as is take on survivor animations, and obviously only as an easter egg towards this trailer. Legion is already small and a lot of skins look like survivors at a glance, so just no TR and using animations would be enough.
If I were to make it a serious suggestion (as this is basically a faster moving version of Pig in stealth), as well as the penalty stun switching to normal walk, I'd have switching to FF also require Legion to take a second to pull out their knife and switch to Killer mode again before starting FF.
The driving point here is that Legion is in a decent place for balance... this addition isn't meant to rework how you play Legion... you SHOULD play Legion how Legion is currently played... but it'd be fun to have this little game as something you can do on the side :)
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I'd be happy if they just took away the terror-radius-wide killer instinct. An unblockable aura detection across a wide area on a killer with high mobility and deep wound+injure on hit, almost on-demand at all times, all basekit, is just broken.
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Pretty sure it never happened so yeah might be the Mandela Effect.
I do recall him stabbing Jeff and putting his mask on. Good stuff.
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