Windows of Opportunity was shadow nerfed, no mention in current patch notes.

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  • Aven_Fallen
    Aven_Fallen Member Posts: 15,756
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    Oh, Killer players complained about it. They see that a Perk is used very often and assume it is the reason they are losing games.

    And IF WoO will be nerfed in the future, guess what happens? The same Killer players still lose games and go for the next Perk. And even before WoO there was another Perk which made them lose games.


    So yeah, WoO was complained about and IMO not justified at all. High pickrates are not a reason for Nerfs. I dont even run WoO because I dont feel that I need it.

  • radiantHero23
    radiantHero23 Member Posts: 3,645
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    Is Stbfl really a problem again???

    Thought we where through with that...

  • Biscuits
    Biscuits Member Posts: 1,097
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    Save the best for last has needed a nerf since the base reduction in killers hit cool down.

    Overcharge should not apply a skill check every single time you kick a gen.

    NoED is still a get out of jail free card.

    Regression in general is too abundant and shouldn't be unlimited. So even when they "Nerf" one perk the next in line just replaces it. They tend to be very cautious with killer perk nerfs. While survivor perk nerfs tend to be the death of that perk.

  • Sabraiz
    Sabraiz Member Posts: 566
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    No, it is not new text.

    It is just old perk description that rose from the grave in preparation for halloween.

    Can we stop this outcry of not a "shadownerf" and not make it into a us vs them?

    They already nerfed pretty much all gen regression perks hard recently.

    And complaining about Overcharge? It's a simple skill check, should be roughly the same difficulty as Decisive Strike skillcheck. The one thing I personally think should be changed with Overcharge, is that the skillcheck disappears when the gen reaches 0%.

    Cannot imagine how much outcry you would have had with the old NoED, and I do not even mean the old old version.

    This topic is about the "shadownerf" of Windows, if you wanna stay on topic.

  • Biscuits
    Biscuits Member Posts: 1,097
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    Windows is going to be nerfed, in the next perk patch, it's the #1 used perk. It's strength doesn't even come close to like the top 20 killer perks value.

    You get DS once per game, once, and people miss it. I have watched top tier survivor players miss the skill check. Defending a hard skill check on overcharge is ridiculous. It should have a CD or be slightly larger.

    I played during old NoED, it was no different than this. If the totem spawns near the killer in his last chase, that survivor is dead. If it spawns away from the killer, you are fine. Showing the totem did nothing, because the same decision and outcomes exist as the prior NoED.

    It wasn't shadownerfed, but it is a planned nerf, no question.

  • Sabraiz
    Sabraiz Member Posts: 566
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    Really? Where is your proof? Or is this just crying for attention with your constant doomsaying? Anyone whose first thought is "shadownerf" instead of thinking that it might be a bug when some undocumented change happens have some serious entitlement issues.

    Personally, I rarely miss it. It is mostly the first time it happens since I am unaware of it. Why should the check be easy? How much do you want the game to cater to you?

    The description is literally difficult skill check, it is meant to be challenging.

    And just like back then, NoED at most gives one kill unless the survivors outplay themselves. Why are not killers allowed one perk that is strong in endgame? Is it because they "already lost"? I do not know how to tell you, but the survivors have not escaped the match until they walk out the gate. Anything until then is fair game.

    And I do not intend to entertain your offtopic doomsaying/trolling anymore in a topic meant for Windows of Opportunity being bugged/"shadownerfed".

  • hailxsatanxeveryxday
    hailxsatanxeveryxday Member Posts: 913
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    STBFL has plenty of drawbacks. If they nerf it, it wouldn't even be worth running.

    Overcharge? Really? That's one of the worst perks in the entire game (and it was already nerfed from 5% to 4%). It actually makes the gen regress slower, and the skill check is easy to hit. I don't think I've missed a skill check from that perk in forever, excepting games against Doctor. If you think that Overcharge is too powerful, you might just need to play the game a little more.

    I might agree with you about NOED if it weren't for the presence of Adrenaline. I've seen that at least once a game lately, and it's every bit as bad. Just had a survivor escape after getting downed a literal second before the last gen popped.

    Reading the end of your comment, you have to be trolling. They've killed almost every regression perk in the entire game. Dead Hard took four or five years for them to finally nerf, and they gave it two slap-on-the-wrist nerfs in a row. Meanwhile, legitimately game-breaking perks like MfT, BU+FTP, and Adrenaline not only exist, but are run by multiple survivors in every single game.

  • skylustv
    skylustv Member Posts: 220
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    The perk is called Windows of Opportunity, not Pallets of Opportunity, they have all reasons to nerf this, or rename the perk name instead

  • IlliterateGenocide
    IlliterateGenocide Member Posts: 6,002
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    Hmm, STBFL was worth running before base-kit killer buff. So I disagree on that, it doesn't need a nerf tho

  • LeFennecFox
    LeFennecFox Member Posts: 1,232
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    Yea it's not a problem at all the meta is just strong chase perks for surv and it got hit in the crossfire I'm guessing it's a good perk for sure, but it's up to the player to get value out of it.

  • LeFennecFox
    LeFennecFox Member Posts: 1,232
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    I just came back for the alien chapter bad players crying about windows is something new to me. I find it odd they nerf windows instead of any of the other perks.

  • Skillfulstone
    Skillfulstone Member Posts: 545
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    While the perk (functionally) seems to be unchanged, the fact that this description even exists suggests that the change is either already in the works (probably in a patch in the near-futur) or is another, unused, version of the perk that the spaghetti revealed.

  • JustWhimsical
    JustWhimsical Member Posts: 590
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    It's not like your comments add value to the conversations because what you said can be flipped as often as needed. Both sides are just childish regarding what gets nerfed and what doesn't. That's it, end of discussion woah crazy. I didn't even know that people who like playing Survivor don't like it when their favorite perks are nerfed, and OMG crazyyyy killer players don't like it when their favorite perks are nerfed!? /s

    Oh wait, I forgot I have to say it like you do. Those horrible horrible *insert main* keep wanting our perks nerfed, they are so terrible I don't like them.

    Raccoon at least understands that this game isn't just one side, which you never will understand.💀

  • Biscuits
    Biscuits Member Posts: 1,097
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    The drawback on STBFL can be ignored by many killers.

    People don't generally run bad perks. Overcharge shows up in a large number of my games.

    NoED just gave a wraith 2k when he was on track for 0k.

    Again people don't generally run "Dead perks" every game.

  • bearr_trap
    bearr_trap Member Posts: 120
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    Despite WoO saying it goes on a cooldown -- it does not. I swift vaulted last night when reading this to test the change and there was no change. Just looks like a hiccup on text.

  • Cypherius
    Cypherius Member Posts: 132
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    People generally use perks they think are strong (or fun).

    According to the Dev's stats Noed and STBFL both have a pick rate of 11%. On the other hand Self-Care has a bigger pick rate of 13% and Windows of Opportunity has 29%. Do you think Self-Care is strong? I would rather not nerf any of these perks as pick rate alone does not tell the whole story.

    Noed can be cleansed before it even does anything and after its revealed it becomes a lot easier to find. Its popular right now as a small and not very effective counter to Adrenaline and MfT+Hope.

    The killers that can deal with the obsession drawback are not even meta. Demo or Slinger being able to bypass this drawback does not change the fact that they are not over performing even with STBFL. The actual meta killers either do not get good results from this perk or have to deal with the Obsession down side.

    Don't get me wrong: Windows/Noed/STFL are not weak or "dead". But they are not strong enough to justify a nerf.

    Overcharge is terrible on anyone not named Skull Merchant tough.

  • Raccoon
    Raccoon Member Posts: 7,678
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    I'd love Self-Care to get buffed back to 50%....I use it in my main build @_@

  • Seanzu
    Seanzu Member Posts: 7,526
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    I've seen it on reddit, twitter, end game chat - I've seen complaints about this perk everywhere.

  • Biscuits
    Biscuits Member Posts: 1,097
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    I keep hearing about these killers that play for fun or intentionally try to not kill anyone. I would love to play against one.

    I'd like to clarify that I am okay with windows getting nerfed, they said they would do this. Nerf overused perks that is, and buff underused ones. I have just noticed that the survivor perk nerfs are much more drastic than killer perk nerfs. There are many ways they could have nerfed dead hard to make it less strong, they picked the one change that makes it only good for cheaters. There are many ways self care and CoH could have been nerfed, they picked the one way that make the perks not worth using.

    There are many ways they could have nerfed NoED, they picked the one way that makes it nearly identical in strength. Because the same thing is true, if the totem spawned away from the killer you are fine. If it spawned anywhere near him, sucks to be you.

  • Cypherius
    Cypherius Member Posts: 132
    edited August 2023
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    I don't mind a Self Care buff. But the ability to self heal (at a good speed) is pretty strong. Going back to 50% might be too much.

    I don't like the notion of nerfing something due to popularity. Truly overpowered perks have strengths that can be described and argued. And i haven't seem a good argument as to why Windows of Opportunity is too strong

    I am curious about how you would have nerfed those perks (NoeD, CoH, DH) . Also, how is DH only good for cheaters? Aside from the ocasional latency issue DH is very reliable to use in my experience.

    Noed spawning close to a hooked survivor is pretty awful. You got a point there. I think its fine otherwise tough.

  • althompson0110
    althompson0110 Member Posts: 52
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    I love how devs are basically ignoring this thread

  • Crowman
    Crowman Member Posts: 9,149
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  • Biscuits
    Biscuits Member Posts: 1,097
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    I don't either but what other metric could they go by? How often killers/survivors "win" with certain perks? The devs can't even decide what constitutes a win, they flop on it constantly. I don't even think I can name a single survivor perk I would consider overpowered. All overpowered survivor interactions require you to be in a party IMO. I think overpowered assumes there is no conterplay, but I can't name a single thing a survivor can do, that a killer can't just counter.

    For NoED, I would have used a token system, for each unique hook during the game you get 1 token. When the gates are powered you get an exposed hit for each token. Keep the totem, remove the aura. Survivors would have the choice between trying to tank through the tokens or to cleanse the totem. The perk also loses the free win value, because the killer actually needs to play the gen half of the game now.

    For CoH, I would have made it allow for self healing but at a reduced speed. Maybe 70% and have it not increase healing actions for other people. It would just be a self healing totem with reduced speed. Personally I think boon totems should be stronger, but if they get stomped out, the totem should get broken baseline. In a world where that existed, I would have the totem be normal self heal speed, knowing that boon totems are limited.

    For Dead hard, I would have made it only a distance perk. Remove the endurance/invisibility frame and just make it so you dash forward a short distance to make something you normally wouldn't. The problem with DH is you now only get 1 use out of it (if the killer is good), they will remember you had DH and just wait it out. Also, if you mess up your first DH, well now you just got zero value out of it. I consider myself a pretty decent video game player, just about every game I play I end up in the top 5-1%. Dead hard is an extremely unreliable perk, I don't care how good you are. It is not physically possible to consistently get value from DH, those people are literally just cheating. If 1 possible DH a game is enough for you to run it though, more power to you. I prefer the bagilllion uses of Lithe and Sprint burst I get every game.

  • Cypherius
    Cypherius Member Posts: 132
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    Do the devs not consider a 3k a win? Kill rates don't tell the whole story either (remember old Object of Obsession?) but are more reliable than pick rate.

    When i say "overpowered" i mean something that brings to much value or is very strong while having very little meaningful counter play. Like Blight/Nurse/Made For this or the For the People + Buckle Up Combo.

    A token system would make NoeD less frustrating without changing its strength much. No objections here.

    Being able to Dead Hard for distance was the reason DH was so problematic in the past tough . Fair enough about Lithe and Sprint Burst being usable more times per match. But there are situations where the killer can't afford to wait DH, like when the surv is barely reaching a pallet. Its not that bad/unreliable.

    The issue with old CoH was that allowing the whole team to self heal (with one perk slot only and no limit to how many times you could do it) made it too easy to reset and erase the killer's pressure. If the healing penalty is heavy enough it could be fair i suppose. Current med kits have a -33% reduction to self heal speed and are still viable despite limited uses.

  • Biscuits
    Biscuits Member Posts: 1,097
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    Idk is a 3k a win? Because didn't technically 1 survivor escape, so he won? How would you include that in the statistics for perks? By just doing a kill rate per perk? How do you distinguish a single perks kill rate with the other 4? Especially if most of the killers are running the same perks.

    MFT has a built in downside, which is that it decentivices using the strongest perks in the game (exhaustion perks). And again these overpowered interactions you described aren't really available to the largest demographic of DBD players, Solo survivors.

    I would argue that the very generous "I" frame was the biggest problem with old dead hard. Being able to dead hard to a window, get hit and vault away was not okay. If it were a distance perk today, those would be downs 100% of the time. Same thing with players dead harding in pallets today, those would all be downs if it was a distance perk.

    Yes but also CoH's only value was that it allowed for teammates to heal up without needing to work together. CoH did more for Solo survivor than anything they have done in the past 5 years. SWFs don't need CoH, but solo survivor was actually playable while it was usable. Why waste time trying to bless a totem to heal people when you can just run Empathy. CoH is a troll talent right now.

    But like I said, the perk changes to survivor are meant to kill those perks. The killer perk changes are much more calculated, with the perk being still usable in mind. I truly believe this is their approach, the data proves it.

  • Mr_K
    Mr_K Member Posts: 9,132
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    It's not new text, it's the old text from the way it was before the cooldown removal.

  • Cypherius
    Cypherius Member Posts: 132
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    You can use data to make informed decisions of course, but I still think there should be a proper analysis of why its used a lot or has a high kill rate as the deciding factor before nerfing or buffing something. And on that topic i still see no good reason to nerf Windows of Opportunity. This change in description is likely unintended anyway as the devs responded.

    Matchmaker treats the match as a series of 1v1s and then adjusts mmr lost or gained by the amount of survs that escaped. From the perspective of survivors being a team: a 3k is considered a win. And the player that escaped alone will barely get an increase in mmr. You could argue he won as an individual but lost as a team. Asymmetrical games are weird like that.

    MFT can be used with most exhaustion perks. You use it at the end when you are finally about to be downed, extending the chase even further. Not working with Sprint Burst and Overcome is not a downside since mft is stronger overall. You don't need a swf for this. You just need to be good at looping.

    The Buckle up FtP combo is a Swf issue indeed. I agree. But that does not make it balanced.

    I have used the new CoH in solo queue and my team mates did use the boon to heal each other. I honestly think people are exaggerating how bad the perk is. Definitely weaker but far from dead.

    This issue of over nerfing perks affects both sides. Just look at Eruption/Call of Brine/Overcharge/Ruin. None of these perks are worth using right now aside from very specific scenarios like 3Gen Merchant + Overcharge. I doubt these changes are done to screw with one specific side.

  • NAERUUU
    NAERUUU Member Posts: 501
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    Wow, thats mean players now have to use their memory and braincells instead of just eyes.

    Idk why they nerfed this perk tbh

  • Batusalen
    Batusalen Member Posts: 1,268
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    If it is so easy and the perk is so useless to experienced survivors, why are you all so adamant for them to change it? Just curious.

  • NAERUUU
    NAERUUU Member Posts: 501
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    Tbh, i dont care if this perk is change or not, like this perk is just an visual help, helpful in soloQ and thats all.

    There is no needs to change it. Even if its super used

  • Pokino
    Pokino Member Posts: 81
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    The people doesn't understand WoO breaks the game dynamics. Not knowing if there's a pallet or not is part of the game, and knowing where could be a pallet, or the shape of a structure is part of the player skill.

    And now, some will say "but im solo, not premade", but that's the problem, premades. instead solving the true problem, it seems that it's correct to create another problem to compensate. No. Never.

    If you're wondering, i'm main surv.

  • althompson0110
    althompson0110 Member Posts: 52
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    Yeah I saw that, and from how I understood it is they updated the text but the perk isn't updated. So it's still being shadow nerfed then? Trying to get more clarification but they just kinda ignored the question I asked in this thread. Not to mention if the way I'm understanding it is correct, they still ignored the op bringing up that the perk is being shadow nerfed. Gonna nerf something, okay, but add it to the patch notes instead of blindsiding everyone. Honestly kinda glad I haven't played dbd since TCM came out. Even nerfed vault speeds whis was honestly stupid. They're doing a lot of unnecessary nerfs tbh.

  • Crowman
    Crowman Member Posts: 9,149
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    It's just old text description that got pushed live. It does not mean the devs are planning on nerfing WoO.

  • IamFran
    IamFran Member Posts: 1,605
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    Why is there so many people lying here?

    "That perk is used by new players and good only for them"

    Don't make me laugh.

    This perk make the new player not learning the structures and pallets because they rely on the windows/pallets wallhack, in the long run this is negative for them.

    And also nobody believe the statement of "this don't benefict experienced players" so why this perk is so massively used even by good players? The perk make them even better because despite knowing the structures they can know where a pallet or window is even in a non explored zone of the map even when there are some obstacles or wall which in their line of sight due its long range and the wallhack. And also nobody talked about average players, this perk make the average and low-average survivor players way better, I'm not a main survivor but I have experience playing survivor and that perks made me extend the chases considerably when I used it some time ago, I stopped using it because I knew it would be nerfed eventually.

    Also if the perk is good only for new or bad players why are are so many people angry here? Don't make us believe it's because you feel sorry for the poor new players haha.

  • althompson0110
    althompson0110 Member Posts: 52
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    Gotcha, that's why I was trying to ask because the way I understood it is that they were nerfing it but didn't update the perk yet, just the text

  • Yatol
    Yatol Member Posts: 1,940
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    pretty ironic considering your post is just a text format of a wojack meme