Xenomorph is great but not really
As the title says Xeno’s power is pretty cool and powerfull in theory but man I think we have another singularity situation here.
The turrets are very oppressive and any competent team or even random soloQ survivors can use them very effectively. Unlike some people believe they do not consume a lot of time to activate by the survivors, they cover an absurd area, they can be spammed even if you destroy them, they act as an early warning system…
This wouldn’t be a issue if runner mode was itself very oppressive but it isn’t. Runner mode has a decent reach sure but its not that big, the hit box is very small, its quite easy to dodge and in general is (compared to other killer “range attacks”) pretty overwhelming especially considering the massive counter play it has.
And this is seen in public matches easily. Every time I play against the Xenomorph and the survivors have more than 10 hours in the game the killer is always getting burned out of his power and has very few kills if any. And when I play as the Xeno against good survivors its more of the same. The only reason I have gotten some wins as Xeno against good survivors is because of perk shenanigans like NOED.
In my opinion or they nerf heavily turrets or they buff runner mode or do both. But that’s my opinion, what do you guys think?
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The turrets do absolutely nothing. What are you on about??
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Entirely skill issue, Xeno is far easier to play than Singularity and EMPs are way, WAY more oppressive than turrets. You literally can't play around EMPs and need to infect all the survivors all over again if they play well, whereas all you need to do with turrets is a simple tail whip, back off for a second or run the green add-on. And even if you get burned you can easily regain your power in like 5 seconds if you just go into a tunnel.
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Agreed so far I've never seen a turret actually do anything other then stop the chase for half a second
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The turrets do nothing, only waste the killers time, remove his power (that its not incredible to begin with), alert the players that the xeno is close… And what do the survivors have to do for all of that? Waste like 5 seconds of their time.
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Never said that turrets were worse than EMPs
Mechanically singularity isn’t that hard and it may be easier that Zeno in that regard.
Simple tail whip is easier said than done. Turrets can be hidden easily, you can bait the xeno to turrets areas without he knowing or having time to react.
”Split second” really? Remember that old dead hard was busted and in theory it also gave survs only a “split second” in chase. And besides that’s not the point, the point is that turrets can be spammed and eliminate your power and breaking them as I said earlier is easier said than done (in fact if placed well they are impossible to break before they do the job).
Idk what MMR level you have m8 but I’m telling you Xeno is going to be another killer that will be bullied by decent survivors (like basically all killers in game except a couple)
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Half a second in chase is a lot and that’s not the problem, the problem is that survs have a counter measure to strong against a very meh runner mode.
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You're wrong. Hope this helped.
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I mostly play survivor and am very average at killer, but I've played Xeno a fair bit today and I don't find the turrets bothersome at all. At first they were because I honestly forgot all about them until there were flames in my face but now I expect them and am prepared.
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The turrets? Oppressive?
In what world lol
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The turrets absolutely do something. At the very least they slow the killer down, and at best they remove his power for a bit. But they are much less oppressive than EMP's, and aren't a problem in my opinion.
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The difference between survivors being survivors, and not knowing how to use turrets, acting like they can stun you out of pickups or just using them to annoy because its funny to set the killer on fire, and comment teams that can bait you into areas, and force you to make descions between tankng fire and losing your power, breaking chase to track the turret or sticking to your chase, is huge.
literrally skill issue, the turrets can be plenty strong if used well, a lot of suvivors arn't using them well yet.
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Exactly 90% of the people mocking OP here, clealy dont know how to use the turrents very well.
Placed correctly they can defo make a difference in getting away in a chase or not.
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the turrets are extremely weak from ptb,what are you on about
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1- xeno just came out, ur not used to tail whip and have less than 20 hours on him, “easier said than done” or u just haven’t practiced enough to see his full potential in running mode…
2- what correlation does dead hard have in this? Thats a complete random point you made.. each have very different purposes.
3-ill reiliterate the killer was just released, if your letting a survivor bring you to a specific point on map, you have the choice to avoid it or plan for it. Dont forget YOU are the killer and decide if survivors get value off ANYTHING, plan ahead and survivors wont be able to use it, Examples of this;
-breaking it before your even in chase
-blocking survivors pathing
-if survivor props one at gen, simply break it and chase?
-if you cant spot one, that is one you, if a survivor spams them and it is unavoidable; the time they spent knocking you out of a power you can get almost immediately back is still in your benefit.
finally, killers are meant to be counterplayable for average players, so ur argument on it being oppresive on high mmr is really irrelevant.
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Then you haven’t gone against survs that use turrets correctly
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Turrets can be countered just by noticing them and M2-ing them. What can't be countered is that lingering hitbox of a shoot ability, that can hit anything a deathslinger can, but can still turn miss into a hit.
His runner mode is super oppresive. I didn't care that turrets can be reliably deleted before, but considering there are very few loops where trained xeno can't hit you very quickly.... Turrets definitely need buffs or alternatively his M2 needs to be nerfed to indeed do only as much as people in this thread think it does (basically make it no better then nemesis's whip)
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his tail needs nerfed bad, literally miserable to play against.
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runner mode requires mechanical precision, situational awareness and timing to be used effectively. Xeno has deep skill-ceiling for a player to master. runner mode should be super oppressive when the killer has mastered the ability. weakening his m2 just makes him a free escape.
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Tail needs a nerf, I own Xeno but main survivor and after playing as and against Xenomorph - that Tail Whip just sucks the fun out of both sides.
You can't loop against Xeno, and the tail whip has little to no punishment for missing. The fire turrets take so much time to setup just to prevent a tail whip that the return is not there. You can't even out run it lol and if Xeno misses, you lose maybe step distance.
At least create a larger delay if Xeno misses or make the tail aim more difficult to control. Quite frankly, it's like having a golden gun in 007
Also fire doesn't do ENOUGH stagger, just got out of a game and the xeno tanked it enough to kill the turret and still have tail whip LOL.
Increase the number of turrets available and remove the stupid movement impairment for setting it up
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I got a lot of value from the turrets in my survivor games quite shocked to see so many not understanding how to use them.
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But this is the main issue - once you learn to play Xeno well, there's literally NOTHING as a survivor you can do to even try to loop him. You will just get hit on almost every loop in a game - and for those loops where you don't get hit immediately, you still need to pre-drop immediately.
Basically it means you can only shift-W and hope that somehow your team will get gens done in time anyway - because slowing down at like 90% of loops in game means you just got hit. That's god-tier-nurse-level oppressive - but Xeno has more map mobility (tunnels are quicker then blinks on large maps) and no edge map counterplay. The only thing that holds him back a little are turrets that take up long time to set up, take long time to respawn, but can be reliably deleted for m2's worth of cooldown (during which you still move at 50% speed).
Like try to play against that and tell me any possible counterplay against good xeno. Because I see literally nothing you can do. The only thing you can hope for is getting the game (possibly the only map that consists of only tall structures with pallets you can predrop). Any other map is instant gg against xeno that learned his whip. But even Gideon will not contain enough pallets to fix all gens in time (since it got nerfed now quite a long time ago).
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yep , that guy seems to have troubles dealing with them , even when 1 single turret takes more than 4 seconds to force you out of crawler mode (skill issue)
currently xeno does not need any buff , actually maybe a nerf for missing tail attacks , because right now is to forgiving if we take in mind that he can almost insta-shot with the tail and also drag the hitbox to make the hit reg even bigger.
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bruh mehanical precision? you literally have to wait only for the survivor to lock themself up on an animation or either a tight corner to just use and drag the tail to make a lose - lose case , nope is just people wanting a killer so they can tunnel more easily it seems like to me . turrets do nothing unless they are 3 at the same time and position which realistically is never gonna happen on chase on top of the fact that the xeno can camp with crawler mode really easily and also avoid turret with just LoS tricks with the tail.
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Can we please remove the Killer Instinct on exiting a tunnel? It's silly enough that the Killer can get a free hit against anyone grabbing a turret at or carrying one nearby the tunnels, but you can't even hide when there is no indication the Killer is coming. At least Nurse and Blight can be stealthed out against their oppressive chase, but you can't even risk touching a gen without knowledge on the Xeno's location. The footsteps are good enough for tracking/free intel.
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Turrets warn you of Xeno, even if it’s underground or undetectable. And carrying a turret still warns you, and it gives you immunity from being tracked by the visual footsteps.
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But this is the main issue - once you learn to play Xeno well, there's literally NOTHING as a survivor you can do to even try to loop him. You will just get hit on almost every loop in a game - and for those loops where you don't get hit immediately, you still need to pre-drop immediately.
that is how pallet should be. they should mindgame tools to outsmart the killer. the summary of your post is that if killer is really good at playing their killer, the killer should go on 5 gen chases. I don't think you should ever going on 5 gen chases as survivor unless killer player is like brand new and just misses swings out in the open or something.
Like try to play against that and tell me any possible counterplay against good xeno. Because I see literally nothing you can do. The only thing you can hope for is getting the game (possibly the only map that consists of only tall structures with pallets you can predrop). Any other map is instant gg against xeno that learned his whip.
you sound like your asking for 100% reliable ocunter-play that always wins.... like super safe pallets that block your way. inherently, counter-play is meant to not be reliable. that is very thing that killer dislike playing against. safe stuff. it is almost like you have to... you know... outplay killer and try make killer make a mistake? crazy idea.
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that is how pallet should be. they should mindgame tools to outsmart the killer.
Agreed - have possibility to outsmart. You can't do that now. The game is boring if it's just about hold-W and predrop. The game is fun, when there's possibility for mindgames and looping. But if you are guaranteed to get hit - then you need to be outright stupid to try to loop (mindgame, not leave the loop, not hold-W). If there's no possibility to outsmart, because killer can hit you reliably on reaction, then you can't loop. I am not talking about going for 50:50. I am saying not going for 100:0 (also known as 15s chase which is exact opposite from 5gen chase).
you sound like your asking for 100% reliable ocunter-play that always wins
No. I am asking for counterplay where I get at least 50% chance instead of 0% change to escape, because killer has on-reaction reliable hits.
Post edited by Gandor on0 -
No. The game is boring if it's just about hold-W and predrop. The game is fun, when there's possibility for mindgames and looping.
Xeno going around drop pallets is looping and mindgames. in term of pallet breaking, that is likely an issue because throughout dbd history, the dev have reduced the time to break pallets making pallet breaking more rewarding than looping. like a lot of the time, it is simply faster to break pallets then loop around them to get hits. I do not see how this is Xeno problem.
i have not played against xeno as survivor enough times to judge but i have escaped all xeno's because my team are generally gen efficient. your post sounds like a skill issue.
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Right now I see it that you a, get bad xeno b, prerun so much you can safely predrop c, get hit. In these conditions - I will leave the loop immediately - because I know that going around the loop means hit with less distance then if I hold-W away. THAT IS SAD quite frankly. It means no chases or mindgames are possible, or you go against someone who doesn't know how to use the ability yet (and drag it over all the loops and things).
I sure got some bad Xeno's that can be looped. But once they learn how to drag the whip over all the loops, it's gg.
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I sure got some bad Xeno's that can be looped. But once they learn how to drag the whip over all the loops, it's gg.
right... i do not agree. long chases are possible vs xeno.
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than we have to agree to disagree
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That tail strike hits all the way from Jupiter. Even when you're clearly not anywhere near enough for it to hit.
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For people interested to see that Xeno can be looped if you're good enough, I recommend watching "Looping the new Alien Killer with no perks" by Naymeti on Youtube.
Quite funny and interesting watch!
After all, if a "cracked" Survivor with 0 perks in SoloQ and an mmr that's through the roof can do it, then surely non-potato Survivors with a bit of experience and a full build can?
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As was analysed in another post
, Xeno's whip attack is about 600ms long from putton pressing till hit. A little sound queue is heard at about 200ms, leaving 400ms to react. Average human reaction time is 270ms, leaving 130ms for latency which is not very much to put it mildly. That is not a proper time window to react to anything.
In addition Xeno's attack can be drawn like that of Nemesis with the pinpoint accuracy of Slinger's harpoon. There is almost no slowdown when you hit or miss (wich is currently bugged) so you can try again and again. And all this talk about "just evade it" are people who win 50/50s for the exact reason I mentioned above. There is no way you dodge a hit that has such a small time frame to react to.
Turrets can be avoided especially if using the addon which gives you more resistance. And from what I see it's that many survivors don't use the turrets for some reason to begin with.
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"This wouldn’t be a issue if runner mode was itself very oppressive but it isn’t. Runner mode has a decent reach sure but its not that big, the hit box is very small, its quite easy to dodge"
This is literally the exact opposite of my opinion and experience so much so that I need to break this down.
Runner mode is not oppressive? It is designed to be oppressive. It is like being chased by Oni. You are meant to run scared and try and get away.
The tail reach is not that big? Really? It is the most far-reaching weapon in the game that is attached to a killer isn't it?
The [tail] hit box is very small? Completely disagree. I have seen Xeno miss a tail shot from every angle possible and with a quick movement after the fact, suddenly it is a hit.
I swear half the people who say Xeno doesn't need adjusting are killers desparate to keep it from being nerfed.
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