Why people complain about the Xeno ?
Dude, thats been like 3 days, idk, wait for an tutorial " how to counter the xenomorph " on youtube.
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Surprisingly there hardly any videos about him on YouTube. I would think the streamers would want to make content about him but guess not
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xeno is another killer who's power is up to the killer to fail rather than the survivor to succeed. Please stop making killer who can get value out of their power by the mere threat of it.
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I swear, it's either:
Vault Pallet: Tail Attacked.
Juke Pallet: M1ed due to no slowdown after a missed tail, or just Xeno anticipating a juke.
THERE IS NO COUNTERPLAY
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The only problems I have with this power is the fact that even if you make a mistake you're barely punished for it, as well as the hitbox being absolutely stupid. The amount of times I've been hit and hit people behind corners is insane.
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Naymeti has few good videos on running Xeno a lot of W and predropping very similar counterplay to Oni.
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I love being hit by his tail through walls, goes really well with the vault system being broken and unusable too!
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Sadly this is what some players want.
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The counter is to delay the killer. It has to hit you two times. This is time where your team can do gens. Every juke gives time. On top you have the turrets that slow it down. Not much, but they do. Apparently they are also bugged so.
There are killers that are stronger in chase like spirit, nurse or artist that you have to try to delay rather than outright run them for "insert x amount of gens" here.
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The thing is, you can't even delay it for that long, since there are definitely perks that speed Xeno up, like Superior Anatomy. And the fact that Xeno can ALSO CRAWL ACROSS THE MAP LIKE IT'S NOTHING WITH IT'S STUPID UNDERGROUND SYSTEM, really helps out with the whole situation. It's also cool how 75% of the Xeno's I go against just tunnel...
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that works only on some maps and if the rng is right. also that counterplay has nothing to do with xeno, its just a different playstyle.
and most important the second or third person who got chased has no more resources to work with because of huge dead zones.
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Please form you own opinion. Thanks.
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first of all, the thread starter asked for youtube.
second here you go:
there is no reaction time on the tail attack for the survivors
initial values:
- wind up time for the tail: 200ms
- average ping survivor: 50ms
- average ping killer: 50ms
- extreme fast reaction time from visual input to output to the finger: 180ms
The Math:
- 200ms: Killer starts his tail attack on his computer
- 200ms -25ms = 175ms: Server gets the Information
- 175ms -25ms = 150ms: Survivor computer gets the Information
- 150ms - 180ms = -30ms : Survivor processes the visual information and tries to reacts but already got hit 30ms before his finger can press a button.
besides that, when he misses there is no loss of distance.
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"Doing the thing that counters Xeno has nothing to do with Xeno"
Lol
Also if the other 3 survivors are sticking to gens then it doesn't really matter if pallets are used quickly the only reason people greed pallets so much is because most survivors are potatoes that would rather loot every chest in the map and cleanse every totem before touching a gen and then wonder why they don't escape when they make games much longer then they have to be.
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a generic tactic is as the name states a generic tactic. thats like tunneling for killers. it works on almost every killer but has nothing to do with the killer power.
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Oooh I get it, so there is no " risk rewards " or 50/50 " with the tails attack ?
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Damn, thats an hot topic ...
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Ppl complain all the time tbh. They complain when they don't see a killer enough (singularity) or when they see the killer to much (Wesker, blight, nurse, or Xeno). Can't make any one happy in this community.
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There's something ironic about releasing a video complaining that turrets don't do enough while showing footage of them getting burned out of their power over and over.
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Thank you. I dislike it, when you tubers words are made gospel. I think we can all have an opinion on the matter.
On the cooldown, I am with you. It could be longer.
The tail however, is fine in my book.
It is strong because there are the turrets to counter it.
What point is there for a power that is predictable, easy to dodge and has the possibility to be disabled completely?
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Content creators sure are funny right?
I also read this often here. "the turrets don't do much".
However, when I play, they do bring me out of my power more often than not. Sometimes, I get stunned by a pallet right into a turret. I'm locked in animation and lose my power. Other times, I hit them, the hit doesn't connect and I still get blasted.
I dont think that they should be a 100% guarantee to bring safety. They should be a deterrence for the Xeno to make looping at certain tiles and structures way harder.
When there is a turret, the killer has to play around it. Destroying it means distance for the survivor. Leaving it means the survivor can loop around it, using it to again, slow down the Xeno while chasing.
That's what I experienced so far and it seems to work out pretty well.
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Wow...
This video is horribly biased and the gameplay contradicts it most of the time.
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Have you ever played against Nemesis or Huntress? Their cooldowns after a missed hit are shorter. Especially Huntress with addons.
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Make you average casual players happy and allow your SWF expert team to tbag another killer in the exit gate
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But I guess this is what we want???
I dont get it.
I'm fine with the cooldown fir missed attacks being higher to punish bad gameplay. But the tail itself should stay the way it is. I honestly dont see a problem with it.
And also to all those saying you can't react to it...
For a weird reason, I've seen WAY more survivors equipped with dead hard since the xenomorph dropped. And what do you know, they react to the tail attack.
So can you or can you not?
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I mean I see people complaining about xeno but I've seen people able to do extremely well with constant gen pressure and good turret placements. People are just complaining that it's another pub stomp killer which most killers are already.
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he's on point, that movespeed buff was not necessary he was fine on PTB, and the worst part he still gain bloodlust when he spam and miss his tail, you're wrong if you think it's ok
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He's frustrating to play against. That's really it. I don't know if it's OP or anything, I've won just as many matches against Xeno as I have lost, but chases against it are definitely pretty boring and frustrating.
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not about the footage, its more about them talking about the experience of playing against alien....?
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Because xeno is bugged and the main counterplay against good xeno doesn't work half of the time + people are still bad at applying the counterplay whatsoever
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My point is their footage is counteracting what they're saying simultaneously, it's weird cuz they actively chose to do that lol.
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the footage doesnt matter, listen to the words not the background gameplay.
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If the footage proves the words wrong, why would you listen to the words over the footage?
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"please ignore the fact that what is being said is being disproven with what your eyes see in front of you"
Like obviously I listened to the words that's how I know they're BS from the footage lmao.
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Pretty much this, add in the fact there's no "wind up" audio for her power, it's only a whip noise when the attack is let loose and all that tells you is that the Xeno missed her attack.
There's also a really weird hitbox with the tail too, like I have been "missed" at point-blank range, but have been it through walls and around objects. It's kind of like Wesker or Huntress's wonky hit animations where in one moment they're just whiffing then the next they're suddenly throwing mini-fridges at you.
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I played against a Xeno the other day where I was clearly around a tall object after she missed her attack on me through a vault. but the game decided that the tail did hit, but through a wall on the other side of the jungle gym. Like, I was so far away that there was no way I had been hit, but apparently, some weird hit validation decided that Xeno's tail had turned into one of Huntress's mini-fridges. I don't know if I was lagging or if the killer was, but it was a really BS hit.
On the flip side of that, I've been missed at point-blank range. So I definitely think there is some weird hit validation that might be connected to latency with the game, which seems to be a problem with Wesker too. :-/
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Ok, 4:55 turret burns Xeno out, gets the hit at 5:00, or 5s later, with the 2nd hit and down at 5:18. Burned out at 6:50, gets the hit at 7:05, and a free hit at 7:22 because he was getting value from the undetectable out of burned add-on, then the down at 7:43 against that person while getting the power back mid chase. It would help paying attention to the video instead of just replying 'lul'. The add-on is based around getting burned out, and he made it a lose-lose for Survivor more than it already is.
Edit: Every other time (like 8:30) it appears he was already out of power so getting burned didn't matter, especially since he got the hit at 8:33 and the down at 8:46.
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getting m1'd is OP you're right.
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Excellent job deflecting, but this isn't Dark Souls. The point was turrets burning don't do enough, and it showed burning didn't do enough. Your refute is a whimpering 'nuhuh'. I'm sorry, but take the L gracefully, or make a legitimate counterpoint.
Edit: I'd prefer the legitimate counterpoint to be clear.
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What do you actually want the turrets to do? Realistically? Because best case they take away the killer's power and they were doing that ( much more than they really should have tbh it peeves me when people complain about killers they're obviously not good with but that's a different discussion) so they did their job?
I feel like survivors really just want singularity 2.0 where the counterplayer makes the killer benign and frustrating to play just because god forbid we get strong killers added to the game that provide a challenge.
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Tbh the reason people are hating on Xeno is simply just because it's kit is so good at tunneling and most of them are doing it. It's worst than other killers cause it doesn't feel like it takes any effort at all.
A tunnelling Xeno just holds forward, and they run you down over and over, knowing you can't touch turrets, pallets or windows. If you try to mind game, they just don't swing and m1 instead, and so many players use this strategy its extremely frustrating as a survivor.
If played normally, Xeno is fine, and lots of fun... but for every game you get with a decent Xeno who plays fair and makes a game of it, it gets followed up with 3 more where Xeno tunnels like they're trying to hit China.
It's extremely unfun, and you can't even shrug it off and go next... cause next is the same as well.
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I don't have this problem when I go against him. I use pallets,and windows just fine. To me he is really fun to go against. We all don't share the same sentiment as you. Don't say he's not fun when a lot of us actually enjoy this DLC.
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Glad you're having fun. I do hope you're the majority. Sadly I kinda doubt it.
The point is, the average player finds this killer really hard to deal with. You're the first person I've seen list him below A tier, regardless of whether praising or condemning. I'm not saying you're wrong, but that's a very controversial take.
The question of this thread is "Why people complain about Xeno?". I'm giving you my answer. People are complaining, because your average player cannot touch a pallet or window without getting stabbed, and they rely on turrets to keep the Xeno's power at bay... but if you're tunneled, you can't use a turret...
Skill in this scenario certainly will solve this issue, but if the only responses are high skill jukes, your average players aren't gonna have fun.
That's why people are complaining. Use that information how you will.
Post edited by UndeddJester on7 -
No turret hindered, but you drop the turret (with no animation) when you run, so there are no more turret free hits. The Killer can already (add-onless) reaction M2 turrets, so it is only effective against Killer players who haven't played any video game before, or when you run along the outskirts with it hidden in a bush. I would also remove the Killer Instinct on tunnel exit, as the footsteps are enough intel. The other issue is the lack of a miss cooldown/slowdown (worth mentioning). Here, the Zarina was missed, but by the time the miss CD was done, the Killer was able to M1. If the Xeno's power is going to be a permanent pre-wound (edit: wound as in wound up arm, not wound as in injured) Huntress, it should be punishing to miss, be 4.4 while the attack is available, or Turrets need to be able to break it out of power before a (add-onless) reaction M2.
Singularity's counterplay is fair, and the Killer is very strong. The problem is it is like Nurse/Huntress where you practically need a mouse, the Killer just isn't built with a controller in mind, as the TP biopod 'autoaim' is nonexistent, and you need quick snappy aim onto Survivors. Singularity's other problem is he is one of a few Killers who suffer from latency rather than only having an advantage from it. Most Killers are used to the basic Lagvantage coded in the game. If you get a hit at a window, and the person then teleports 5 feet or around a corner, that was a lag hit that was a clear miss on their screen. This makes the 'attacker' the one who has Lagvantage. Ghosty's reveal logic makes the Survivor the attacker, and thus the one with Lagvantage (in terms of revealing), similar to EMPs with Singularity. If you EMP while the TP biopod is en-route, the attacker EMP hits before the attacker TP biopod. Singularity requires skill and effort, and Xeno requires neither.
Could you explain how you loop an in-power Xeno that isn't a baby Killer? First when they run past the flame turret and reaction M2 it, that buys you an extra 3-5s in chase. Then in my experience, pallets are death sentences unless it is a pre-dropped god pallet. If you pre-drop a normal pallet, they walk around. If you greed the pallet, they walk through and get the M1 before you loop back around. If you try to stun at the pallet, they respect it and get an M2 hit. So all pallet scenarios are on the Killer to fail, not the Survivor and Killer to have a fair back and forth, hence why I said against a non-baby Killer. Windows are of varying strengths, but an LT wall is also a death sentence against Xeno. Normal loops with a pallet are balanced around running window to pallet to window again (and so on), so once you reach the pallet portion you lose all the while the Xeno is gaining Bloodlust. The only Xenos that don't have free Bloodlust are the ones going for risky shots rather than taking the free win move.
As for Nemmy and Demo, they are much easier for me to go against, because depending on the Killer, you can reaction dodge on hearing the sound cue without looking backwards. Once they realize you reaction dodge, you can commit to the vault/greed the pallet instead. After that you need to mix it up between a reaction dodge or commit/vault. They also don't get 18 m/s map mobility for free with KI revealing even hiding Survivors, giving them instant value on a pop, and free hits against anyone carrying a turret. Demo gets 20m/s map mobility, but only after he spends ~3s placing a portal where he wants it, with a longer portal exit timer and greater sound cues to respond and leave.
As far as 'lack of skill' That is a hilarious claim to make, but I'll bite. Checking deadbystats we get this.
I have ~70% gens protected ratio as Killer, which means I win 70% of my games before the Survivors are able to finish all the gens. Even if we were to take the extreme stats of the remaining 30% are 4 man escapes, (and not also potentially 1ks, 2ks, 3ks, and 4ks after the gens pop) that still leaves me at a 70% win rate, which is well above an even, normal, 50% win loss ratio.
I beat 3 MfTs, 3 Windows, 2 Resils, 2 Hopes, a Dead Hard (I kept swinging into because I mixed up who had it) and a BNP as Freddy without hard tunneling (since the lowest BP a surv had was more than 10k BP) with effectively 1 perk (because they cleansed both totems by my 2nd hook, and OC was bugged to not give skillchecks if you tapped gens immediately prior to the Xeno patch). But by all means, prove I lack skill when I have receipts. (Also yes, I have Freddy P9, but only because I am going down the character lists for charms, I'm on Pyramid Head as Killer and Nea as Survivor at the moment.) Now to be fair, I am weaker at Survivor than I am at Killer, but I can recognize when there is a problem regardless. Xeno's current strength is a problem, and this is the time for larger changes (like running drops Turrets) before we get locked into another Nurse or Skull Merchant.
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lol
How I know you don't play Xeno. Getting a hit while someone holding a turret requires prediction on survivor spawns and mostly happens at the beginning of the game, if you predict that correctly you should get rewarded for it. It very rarely happens outside of that so I don't see how it's an issue and trust me you don't actually want that because the number of players that would accidently sprint holding a turret and put it on it's 60 second respawn timer would be crazy.
The killer instinct is because coming up from the tunnels is because coming up is disorienting and they sometimes face away from the gen and if survivors only run when they hear you come from a tunnel you're not even getting the footsteps nor are you getting footsteps if survivors are only working on gens or holding a turrets.
Next we're for some reason surprised pikachu that a Zarina that just stops moving completely made no distance after a missed tail attack which not sure why but okay.
Huntress is 110% because the hatchets can go across the map and she can hit you from 14+ meters away during chase I don't know why we're equating that to the shortest ranged m2 attack in the entire game like that's actually a baffling false equivalency. Which when we're not doing that we're just suggesting to take away Xeno's skill expression and counterplay to their counterplay because why have skill expression when we can just give survivors free value for doing the bare minimum lol.
Singularity has the lowest kill rate of any killer as per nightlight.gg and ask literally anyone Singularity is incredibly frustrating to play at the present moment, if you think they're in a good spot I don't know what to tell you but giving everything else you've said I'm not surprised you think this. But considering we're now just saying Xeno requires no skill when her entire power centers around a skill shot I just think this bait posting and I can't take any of this seriously.
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I just watched his recent video and I am not impressed. Cried begging for heals and practically doomed everyone when he didn't start finishing the last generator.
Last match was an Alien that MISSED even when the Survivor run to a wall lmao. That alien was a beginner and he only demonstrated one instance of counter play throughout the entire video. An Above average survivor that only looks good due to cherry picking minimum 'plays'
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It seems to happen to me in ~15% of the start of my matches against Xeno that I didn't crossmap from the start, and estimating from how quick Xeno got hits against my teammates it happened ~60% of the time. That only leaves 25% of matches that didn't have a free hit from the onset. It isn't a prediction of any skill to think "they probably spawned away from me" then seeing footsteps heading towards the tunnel.
Survivors have to run from the tunnel or they give a free hit, so there is almost always going to be scratch marks to follow. When I did manage to play Xeno, a Mikaela hid and wasn't moving, and the KI gave me free intel on finding her. She thought she was hidden, but the KI range was too large to help her.
Zarina: To be fair, yes she stood still for a second, but she was in no-lunge M1 range during the 2-3s tail CD. If she ran, she would only have made it 4m, still in tail range, and couldn't make it to a pallet/window regardless.
Huntress isn't 110%/4.4m/s while holding a hatchet though, she is 77%/3.08m/s. Anyone who has played as or against a 'melee' Huntress would know those speed timings are what make her fair at loops. If she respects the pallet, she gets a hit against a pallet drop, but the Survivor gets an extra loop if they greed it. If she runs through the pallet, she can get an M1 on the loop before the Survivor reaches the pallet again, but the Survivor can get the stun if they drop it. It is a fair 50/50 mindgame/coin toss, with no clear winner decided from the onset. That is what I am comparing to Xeno. That is what is unfair for Survivor. If the Xeno plays optimally, it is always a hit. It is on the Killer to screw up, with no agency given to the Survivor other than to choose how far from hook they get downed.
I can understand the frustrations of playing Singularity, he roughly uses Ghostface's stalk logic, but it resets on a pixel blocking the Survivor. He also requires high mechanical skill and accuracy, as well as tactical positioning. You can't aim fast enough on controller, which tanks the number of console players. Also I tend to get burnt out playing Ghostface too many times in a row, because it is similarly tactically demanding for the reward put in. Especially when compared to how easy it is to autopilot Blight and Bubba and still win. Personally I don't care for nightlight kill rate stats, because it is only based on self-reports. In some cases it is like the "About to go fight, I'll post the video after --- I got destroyed bruh, I'm not posting that". In other cases it could be considered only in top MMR, which is only 25% of the playerbase. If he destroys newer players to reach a good kill rate it would be unfortunate, but I can understand why BHVR wouldn't adjust him. I think Singularity should have a similar mechanic to Ghostface being revealed by Survivors, but on his Biopod tagging. That way it 'saves' the progress and if they get back out of position you can continue from roughly where it left off.
As far as Xeno's 'skillshot', I don't consider the straight line used at loops optimally to require any skill. If you were talking about the greedy/risky drag down over objects shots, then I agree. But waiting for a window vault/pallet drop or them not taking the option doesn't require skill. It's like the crossmap Artist versus the zoning crow at loops Artist. People respect the skill of a crossmap Artist, they hate the boring no counterplay other than hold-W zoning Artist. Although even the zoning Artist can be mindgamed into an early bird send on occasion giving slightly more hope for counterplay. Since Xeno can reaction whip at a vault, (.2s windup, .25s average visual reaction time for a total .45s Xeno tail against the Survivor ~.46s Resilience Fast vault speed, or .5s normal Fast vault) he gives no hope for his opponents. The most skill a Xeno needs to exert is a .2s strafing M2 over a pallet, but that isn't enough skill required to matter. That's simply learning his power. I wouldn't consider someone who doesn't know how to blink a Nurse, I would consider them a baby Nurse. I would consider someone who thinks T1 Nemesis can whip break pallets a baby Nemmy. It is the same for Xeno/baby Xenos. We all start as the baby Killer, then we learn the mechanics, even if we have the transferable knowledge of the M1 framework.
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People just dont really want to learn how to play against different killers is all there is to it. Most newly released killers and killers that you see in most matches have the same counterplay which is Holding W. Xeno counters that which simply throws many ppl off
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Tail strike is busted.
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