Why you as a killer main should care about the state of Xeno
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What in the god damn hell are you on about?
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My statistics are an accurate representation of what her kill rate would look like against the average solo queue team. His statistics are a dump from what I would hope is top end killer mains? But I would have to look at his FAQ if he even has one. 2.3k games in this time frame is a ton of different people sending him numbers. How do you know the numbers you are getting from them aren't lies? What if survivor and killer mains are sending in numbers? What if the people sending in numbers are trolling or just paying for fun?
I use the same perks every game I record, I keep track of DCs but I keep the 2 stats separate. I also have a separate row for killers who hard tunnel. To see if tunneling actually increases kill rate (spoiler it increases your kill rate by 15-25%).
I just reset it a few weeks ago so I am fresh, with only 60 games. And Xeno just came out so it would be impossible to get to a respectable data set in the time frame. That being said, she is performing very strong with how new players should be with her.
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Oh ######### off so by your logic 4 people dying to a billy isn't the same as the last match because JohnnyGondolas2006 was using left behind that match on dwight and the next match had people playing to win and ended in a close match but said Billy got his 4k
News flash all the game's mmr cares about is escapes & kills and the stats that we have access to proved you wrong and you're trying to weasel your way out of it
You're unironically Dr Manhattan in this meme
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Both his and my stats could be correct. He plays at the very peak end of DBD, he could be playing against swfs and competitive teams back to back. I play by myself and regularly get teammates that would struggle opening a new pair of scissors.
A 58% killrate against comp teams is very good, that's a competitive viable killrate. If she is doing that well against comps, then a 76% kill rate against solo groups makes sense does it not?
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Nightlight is a dbd website where people upload screenshots of the endgame screen to be validated by its AI.
If you want to understand what kind of matches qualify you can read up on the documentation.
Nightlight.gg is fairly reliable and has stayed consistently on par with official bhvr stats within a couple percents. Its just lacking representation from lower mmrs because by logic alone, casuals don't care about the game that much to upload their matches to the site, however lack of low mmr representation is honestly a big plus since data from nooblets is worthless.
2300+ matches have been uploaded to nightlight.gg and the killrate sits at a fair 57%.
For all the "90% killrate" claims you do you still have yet to show your statistical work backed by cold hard evidence.
One could even argue that your statistics would be inherently biased due to multiple factors.
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Nightlight is aggregate data, as in, the opposite of anecdotal data.
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Oh I assumed this was a website by the competitive killer player. Anyone can upload? What sort of vetting is there? I am happy to take a screenshot but I will get what I always get "You need a bagillion matches before I will look at it".
I think it's a cool website but I would doubt anyone below the 5-10% is uploading data. You are just going to get which killer is doing well at the top end.
Like I said above I just reset it because the game has changed pretty significantly since I started recording.
Bias isn't always a bad thing, mine is biased towards how a solo survivor would do against killers.
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Anyone can make an account and upload, it also keeps your *personal stats* in your own dashboard after you upload the matches.
The vetting process is detailed in the official documentation.
I'd argue nightlight data consists of *mostly* mid to high mmr data, with a few low mmr matches in between.
It's good enough to obtain a fairly accurate statistical analysis of DBD in terms of pickrates , killrates, perk usage rates etc etc. It has stayed on par with official bhvr stats for quite a long time with just a couple % of difference.
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I wish BHVR would put out stats based on SWFs and Solo players. I think it would destroy peoples perception on this game.
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People would probably take you more seriously if you have a larger sample size.
Also you claim that your dataset is an accurate representation against the average solo queue team. However how do you know that your teammates are solo queue too? Do you ask them in every pre game chat? What if they don’t reply or lie? If there’s a duo or trio in your team, do you discard the data from that match?
The only constant I see here is you and the killer is Xenomorph. Just like how you questioned the validity of Nightlight data, people can question the validity of your data too.
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Absolutely. You can only account for so many variables and get as close to a reliable answer as possible. I think I am doing enough to suggest that my stats are close to an accurate representation. I never give up, I discount DC games, I play the same builds, I don't count games if I am doing a challenge.
I think the biggest issue people grasp with stats is what the test is actually measuring. I don't think my stats would be Xenos overall kill rate. But I do think it would be very close to her kill rate against a solo squad at the top end. And in knowing that killrate I think it's too high. Especially if I compare it to other killers that are also included in my stats. She is at least 10% above everyone else.
I think if you were to look at what Nightlight is measuring, it would be the experience of the top half of players. SWFs and solos included.
And I don't see anyone defending Xenos strength. I see everyone saying "it's too early to know". I disagree, we have had plenty of time to digest her. She is too strong.
And me as a single human, it's not feasible to provide you with a sample size you would be happy with. Despite the last booster shot only being tested on 12 mice.
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Are you under the impression xeno is more oppressive then alch ring or iri tag blight? I think the power is more forgiving than adrenaline vial and it's disgusting but not that level of strong.
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I do yes, I think she is capable of being stronger than blight. Blight is at least limited in his ability to traverse the map, if he goes to the wrong gen he is out of juice. She can just continually burrow until she finds people, and her chase is equally as quick as his. So IMO her mobility is much stronger, she also doesn't need any aura perks, which allows her to run full regression.
I do expect her tail attack to be changed or her turrets. Which will bring her down to below his level. I personally think they thought the turrets would be stronger. But one of her addons makes it nearly impossible to get broken out by turrets.
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10 seconds after using all 5 rushes for map mobility. Xeno has to take at least 8 seconds for 2 animations and the travel time to get to the closest outlet. Maybe, maybe you can argue stronger than base blight as I have only played 8 or so games vs xeno but alch ring or iri tag on a good blight is absurd.
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You don't have to leave the burrow to find people, she has info from inside the burrow. So you don't need to waste animations leaving and checking each area. Blight is absurd with those addons, so is Xeno.
Something I realized today while playing, she might be the only completely silent killer. While she is in crouch mode she makes no noise. So without wall hacks it is very hard to pick up on her mind games.
So many design choices have led to an incredibly oppressive killer, it isn't one thing making her op imo. There are componding factors that lead to a situation that feels nearly impossible to deal with.
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Its just a very small part of the picture. A lot of players don't even use the website. You're trying to present it as infallible evidence, which it's not.
By the way killer mains screaming "SKILL ISSUE" all the time is an intellectually devoid move. Its their way of appealing to all the edge lords who can't present a meaningful logical argument and instead troll on the forums.
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It is more accurate than one person's anecdotal evidence, which is why it was presented. In lieu of official stats, its the most aggregated data we have on the killer.
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I've played 4 times against Xeno on SoloQ and every one of them i got out.
I think people are underusing the Flame Turrents on loops, and trying to loop Xeno as a normal m1 killer.
TBH, i think the killer is fair and balanced as it is.
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By nightlights nature, its going to consist of data from fairly experienced players (Mid to High MMR), which is the data set where people reasonably know what they are doing, and where you can make a fair assesement if something is indeed overpowered or overtuned.
If you took data from low mmr as valid data, then nurse and blight would seem extremely weak due to the steep learning curve.
Right now the valid data from 2600 matches puts xeno as 57% killrate, which is actually a tad under ideal from BHVR's 60-62% target range.
Furthermore, when killer kill averages are lowering into high 40s low 50s, theres something wrong with game balance in the survivors favor, and this is not something than can be denied.
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and in my statistics, they have a 65% kill rate. (while I have a 50% escape rate against them)
while in almost 2600 games on nightlight, it's 58%
that is what this is...
maybe you are just bad at facing xeno.
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Not like MMR worked that well to begin with.
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Imagine being so delusional that you truly believe your personal unverified data is truer than an actual website used by thousands to create legit data over thousand of games.
Well at least I know what to expect from you now.
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Using incomplete/missing data just to argue for or against anything is a logical fallacy.
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Incomplete/missing how? Because it doesn't include the entire userbase for the entire game? That makes it curated.
Nobody said it was absolute either, just that, again, its more accurate than a single person's anecdotal record.
Edit: I don't understand the lengths people go to just to try to dismiss nightlight whenever it gets brought up. It's not meant to be gospel, just a way to glean an understanding of trends and average performance in mid-high MMR. It's not meant to be "told ya so" data.
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Xeno is counterable it took me about 5 days and during those 5 days I was complaning about him like you. However I learned how to use the turrets and how to dodge his tail attack and I escaped against him 3 times in a row 2 days ago. And yesterday I escaped him 4 times not in a row. MMR needs to be changed and Xeno needs the movement speed bug fixed and that is it. This is just my opinion.
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I gonna just leave this here.
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People are quick to agree with or dismiss data if it does/doesn't align with what they already think. If my data said she was a fair killer, they would all be patting me on the back saying you got the right result. The fact is, I demolish killers below S tier, almost always get 4 man escapes. But when I play against Xeno, she regularly gets a 3k-4k.
They bring up how to counter her, ignoring the fact that most Xenos run the addon that makes the turrets useless. She is overturned, anyone playing survivor can see that. The people in here saying "I finally managed to beat her". Yeah your MMR dropped like a hot rock and you finally got a baby killer.
It should be noted that there are rumors her tail CD is bugged and not applying correctly.
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dcing doesnt effect mmr i thought. So no SM hasnt had this same effect.
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It has nothing to do with the outcome of the data, your account is just a single person's account. Nobody is saying your experience is a lie, just that it doesn't have the objective impact you think it does. It is, by definition, subjective.
In fighting games there are things called "matchups" that determine what level (if any) of inherent advantage one character has over another, when factors like skill and adaptation are removed from the equation. That data is taken from a combination of tournament performances and inherent kit balancing, not any one (even the best players in the world) person's opinions. If Thawk vs Guile is considered a 3-7 matchup in Guile's favor, the Thawk players that win it uphill (the 3) are an outlier from the ones who succumb to the disadvantage (the 7.) They could be so good at the matchup that they rarely lose it, but that doesn't change the data used to create the matchup rating because their personal skill (or opponent's lack thereof) carries the match. The 3-7 rating is the estimated outcome based on the data collected, and kill/escape ratios work similarly when you start applying them to different brackets of players (at least as well as this game calculates wins/losses...)
This is why sample size is important. Like I've already said, it has nothing to do with using statistics as a gotcha moment, your conclusion is simply anecdotal.
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You keep statistics from your games, in which you are the constant. As opposed to compiled stats across many games from different sets of players.
Not to be a jerk, but
Seriously, you're really giving off the impression of someone who just can't cope with the killer and needs it to be a fault in the killer's design and not your gameplay.
As with all killers, it'll be weeks before we get a crystalized sense of how good this killer is.
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I have a higher escape rate than the people I play with, so that doesn't track. My escape rate has always been higher than the kill rate. Meaning I escape more on average than the people I get placed with. I do not run hatch or hide builds. AND I am the person who is more likely to trade in the end game to help someone else escape.
Also I am almost always in place 1 or 2 for points earned in the match.
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Lets assume that's true, it would still not matter if you haven't been able to adjust to this killer. Numbers compiled more randomly and in greater quantities certainly seem to indicate that Xeno isn't the problem at large as it has been in your games.
And it bears repeating that we're nowhere near the point where we can pass judgment on how good or not good this killer is, or is going to be long term. People are still figuring them out.
Except for you apparently, who has deemed Xeno to be the grim reaper.
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It doesnt really matter what any of us think about the state of Xeno. In the end the kill statistic that BHV uses internally will decide wether she will be nerfed or not and neithrr a Website, personal statistic or whoever screams loudest on the forums. So time will tell whoever was right regarding her kill rate.
From what Im seeing survivors are very fast improving at facing xeno and matches get closer and closer. Honestly just give it like 2-3 weeks for strats to develop and for ppl that literary just hopped on dbd because they are alien fanboys and have no intention to stay or learn the game to its fullest, to leave and things will pretty sure even out.
I still remember when plague was released and this entire forum was swept with threats like "why you are an evil Person if you play plague", "plague is unbeatable", "plague needs a hard nerf now". Then the strats and ways to play against her slowly made the rounds in the community and the threats just ebbed away slowly without plague being nerfed. Will probaly be the same thing here.
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I have adjusted to the killer, no one has asked me what I do differently.
Firstly bringing chase perks against her is pointless, she wins, her chase is better than most killers possibly even blight.
So load up on either a heal build which I prefer, with empathy + juiced medkit + renewel + plot twist + built to last. This lets me keep my team healed and lets me get free health states without wasting my medkit.
The other option is a gen rush build which is a little riskier. If the killer is running enough slowdown, your tool boxes could be a complete waste. But when it works out, the game ends pretty fast.
Second turrets are better used as a warning system then to actually pop the killer out of her power. I usually just pull the turret out and slam it right down where I found it. Now it beeps letting me know if shes on her way and when I should start W keying away.
In knowing all this, she still has a high kill rate imo. And the argument that survivors need to adjust to a new killer, what about the killers being new to her? Shouldn't they need to adjust too? Why are you assuming everyone is just a master Xeno player? Seems weird that you think that's an argument when everyone should be playing mediocre, and yet the killer still is obliterating people.
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I don't think he is that strong that it would make someones mmr very high and even if it would. Even now mmr can screw you while playing weaker killers if you play let's say wesker a lot and win consistently.
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Be real here, what exactly is there to learn when it comes to play xeno? How to enter a tunnel and crawl out the other? its just holding W until arriving at your desired destination. Destroying turrets? all you gotta do is look at it and M1 or M2 it.
Realistically the only thing thats a "learnable skill" is mastering the tail attack ... even then, anybody that has played nemesis knows how to use a Tier 1 tentacle strike which is pretty much what the Xeno tail is.
Its inherentely not a very mechanical or muscle memory skill demanding killer hence everyone will be pretty confortable playing as xeno and theres no "adapting" when it comes to killer players learning xeno.
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Same argument, what is there to learn about playing against her? She is an anti loop killer, so W keying is the way to go. Just saying that people need to gut gud is not a good argument. Wesker is an A tier killer, I don't remember Wesker being this hard to live against on launch. I enjoyed playing against him quite a bit actually.
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Have you really not considered that people are playing Xeno so much because the chapter just came out? People want to play the new stuff; not everybody is out to get you, man.
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Why is it so hard for you guys to admit the killer is good? You would rather use every excuse under the sun than just say, the killer is fun to play and strong.
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That's because people wanted to get chucked around in their first few matches and wanted to troll around with wesker ie make him jump out windows he wasn't targeting
Survivors can't goof around and make the xeno rage and do stuff it didn't want to for the lols that's the real reason why you guys pull up wesker because he is the one a tier killer that low and mid mmr players can goof around with and escape most of the time against
Which is why I list him as the exception because a lot of the people who complain about new killers just expose themselves as being the mmr range where xeno stomps at ie low to low mid and instead of learning how to counter xeno you all are just crying nerf she's op
The only person I've seen complain about her originally but took the time to adapt to her and has learned the strategies against her is Vanishlord(gotta give props to you my guy) maybe you all should stop playing the complain game and either take a break from dbd or adapt and learn how to play against the killer
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We have no problem admitting she's good you guys are the ones on the forum who are afraid to admit that she's not impossible to win against
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I just watched a very well known DBD streamer say her tail attack didn't need the buff before launch and even said it should get nerfed. He was also complaining about the killer community attacking him already for saying so, so I won't send anymore hate his way. But I have seen plenty of people say exactly what I am saying. Should be noted he wasn't playing survivor. He was doing a win streak on Xeno.
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🤣🤣🤣
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Ok let's ignore everyone who's proved you wrong because this "popular streamer" says one aspect of her should be nerfed
also if you're referring to people who have been saying what you've been saying on Twitter and the forums boy do I have news for you those are the exact people I think of when I say a lot of survivors aren't willing to learn how to go against a killer higher than c tier with the exception of wesker
I'm starting to wonder why I took you seriously when I found this thread
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What do you mean? I’m saying the guy crying about the killer week 1 is probably not good at the game.
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Much like every other killer, theres specific things you have to learn and know in order to "counterplay" the killers.
Nurse? Break LOS, and if that can't be done, try double backing so she overshoots the blink.
Trapper? Pay attention to the ground incase of traps, disarm them if you can.
Hag? Same thing as trapper
Bubba and billy? loop around tight spots and hard bends to force them to hit the loop and come out of their power.
Demo? Mind the shreds and and break his portals.
etc etc.
Xeno requires you to learn optimal placement for the turrets, aswell as knowing to use the turret beeping as an indicator to pre-run.
Its been a week, people are starting to understand the turret placements resulting in xeno killrates being ~58%.
Xeno is not an "overpowered" killer by any metric.
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Bruh, even trapper has a really high kill rate against the average soloq team. Weak players being destroyed aren't a measure of the killer's strength.
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You realize solo survivors is the largest demographic of players on DBD right?
I disagree on the turrets, they take too long to move around and on a lot of maps there isn't actually a "good spot". It's better to just plop them down quickly and use them as a warning system. That being said, there isn't a whole lot to learn, she's basically nemesis if he could spam tentacle a lot more.
The argument that it takes time to learn a counter and reduce the kill rate just isn't a good one. Especially since during that same time killers haven't figured out how to play her perfect either. Her kill rate has come down some for me, but it's still 10% above the average.
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So basically the introduction of one killer that people still need time to get used to is going to irreversibly break the mmr system resulting in every survivor being down ranked and every killer being inflated?
Thus destroying the game as we know it. Jesus does the government know about this?! I think people need to chill.
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I don't even want to play other killers anymore. Xeno is the best killer, a perfect organism. It's structural perfection is matched only by its hostility. No more giving hatch, no more surv rulebook (you can be grateful i'm not gonna slug for the 4k). For Entitys sake, LET IT BE!
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