I don't like playing against the Xenomorph
Comments
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Survivors when you tell them you can't circle twice around a pallet and press spacebar to loop killer for 5 gens:
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This one has all the hallmarks of the complainer’s play book.
Lets go down the check list.
boring check
no counterplay check
some other annoying thing you’d rather face en mass. Check
No constructive feedback check
missing specific reference about toxicity and lack of skill, but I think the last line implies them in some way. So I’ll say check
Lose points because there isn’t a hyperbolic example about how extreme something is and how it always happens.
5/6 ain’t bad I think we could make a new drinking game based around this.
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Insane reflexes pretty much disqualifies you opinion.
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That "just place some turrers in location X" is nice and works somewhat okay until you run out of turrets.
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The person who made this incredibly biased and incorrect video also made another one. It features the most juvenile and close-minded takes I have ever heard about DbD: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5gBrMFvwICQ
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Love everything about the Xeno but wish he could more diverse add ons.
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I'm curious what was the play here?
Should I just have guessed that the alien wouldn't be using M2 instead and dropped the pallet? Seems like an odds that heavily in her favor.
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Someone will come and call you unskilled toxic survivah.
Guess better i think :d But Xeno is fineeeee ofcourse, who cares about if survivors have no fun and chance.
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They should join the lottery I think. Guess are on fire if they flip a coin like this regularly.
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Me experiencing deja vu when we enter the "look at the shards" phase
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he breaks turret in 0.0000000000000000000001 second with tail attack the hell are you talking about?
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This may be true, but I enjoy facing Blight more. Think on that, I'd rather play against nurse and blight, then against xeno.
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In all fairness, that's the same with every game that has a competitive element. Pick rates always end up looking like an upside down funnel.
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Well, there was a 50/50 on whether Xeno prefires tail, in which case you would have won. You could have also ran into the pallet and back towards the killer instead of swerving out so early and predictably, and you may have forced a whiff. It's exceptionally hard to hit the tail at point blank.
But here's where you're going wrong: you're whining that you had maybe 3m of distance on the killer and got hit. Why do you feel like you were entitled to not get hit there? Against a Huntress, Wesker, Pyramid Head, Trickster, Nemesis, Slinger (and probably a few more), you get hit there no matter what (if they don't whiff). But when the new killer can hit you from outside M1 range, all of a sudden, we're outraged?
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Survivors playing against Blight: "what a dogshit OP killer I'd rather play against 20 skull merchant than this"
Survivors playing against SM: "what a boring trash killer I'd rather play against 15 BMing xenos than this"
Survivors playing against Xeno: "what an overtuned BS killer I'd rather playing against 12 blights with alch ring than this"
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Lol run into the pallet and back to the killer? Hello? Have you ever tried this killer? You literally have no time to do that and as soon as you hear the wind up it's already mid stab. Stop lying lmao.
Except all the killers you mentioned can't use M1 while they're using M2 and if they were to cancel out their M2 they have a decent cooldown. Do you not see the problem with this? If they're holding M2 they can only do one specific attack which can be predicted properly and not to mention these guys actually allows you to get good distance if they mess up their attacks. This is like Huntress while holding her hatchet is pressuring you away from Windows and Pallets then instantly doing an M1. Heck you can drop the pallet if they cancel out their M2 here.
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Ran into the pallet and back? Why are you blatantly lying? You could get hit with an M2 before you could even react. As soon as you hear the whip sounds it's already mid stab. You have ample time to do this with Pyramid head since his M2 isn't instant.
Except all the killers you mentioned has a visual cue that they're doing an M2 and can only do as such. They can't suddenly do an M1 and use that to change the 50-50 into their favor. That's like Pyramid head holding M2 and suddenly slashing you with an M1 instantly. That's now those killers work. Heck they have rewards for the Survivor if they miss their attacks while Alien doesn't most of time doesn't allow that.
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Yes. Ran into the pallet and back. Anything beside doubling back 3 feet from the pallet. If I'm that Xeno there, I'm waiting until I see you step inside the pallet before I M2. You didn't:
You CAN actually react to the whip, you just have to react very fast. But that's beside the point entirely. My point is that you're trying to argue that you should have been able to do something there; I'm arguing that you already misplayed, unless the Xeno misplayed as well. It doesn't matter if those other killers have a sound cue, because no matter what, you were gonna get hit there. All of them had a way to zone you away from the pallet and either secure the M2 hit or bodyblock the pallet and M1. What you're doing is akin to being in M1 range near an M1 killer, with a pallet 2 feet in front of you, and whining about how you had nothing you could do to make the pallet safely. If Xeno is that close to you already, you're already in a bad position.
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I miss Blight. I've been stuck with baby survivors and killers recently, so I haven't seen him once.
Nothing is comparable to SM. She's she's a turd with her own distinct shape and smell.
I pet a Xeno yesterday. Afterwards it span in circles. It was very cute.
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I can say this with 100% honesty. I've defended Nurse on here, I've defended pretty much any killer on here. I will not defend Xeno.
With any killer in this game, if you have a really skilled player (even a skilled Trapper) you are going to feel pressured and they are going to make the game a challenge as it should be.
With Xeno, it's run the right two add-ons to make the turrets irrelevant and then you have baby Xenos getting 4k's without a challenge.
That's a problem. I get it, killer mains are like "yay we can face roll" but that isn't healthy for the game. It used to be if you faced a skilled killer you were going to get smoked. This gave reason to practice and pick a main killer and really grind on them. Xeno doesn't take a grind, it just takes having the right combo and just kitty trot around the map with tail strikes. How is that fun?? Where is the challenge?
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Face palm. I avoided going into the pallet because again it's an extremely safe bet for the Xeno you physically cannot RAN INTO THE PALLET AND BACK. ANY POINT OF ME RUNNING INTO THE PALLET AND XENO CAN TAIL ATTACK AT ANY POINT AND WOULD HAVE BEEN UNDODGEABLE
I don't know what you're smoking when the tail charging time is 0.02 seconds and at the entire thing takes about 0.06 seconds from charging to hit.
You should be in the guiness book of record for the fastest human reaction. Might as well get the Anti cheat check your computer if you can move your character fast and do your silly pallet strat.
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I would agree the odds were in its favour there. There's very little that could have been done, beyond relying on luck that the movement may have distracted it, but it was pretty patient.
However, in that scenario there would have been a few other killers who would have had an equally easy time of it there: Huntress and Deathslinger the 2 which immediately come to mind. So I do understand your argument as a whole, but this example isn't illustrative of this scenario only benefitting a Xenomorph.
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Would you please do the math how to react to the tail? I did it (you can find it in multiple threads) and came to the conclusion that by the time the surviror press the button to react he already got hit 30ms ago.
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Tail has a very clear visual cue when Xeno pulls it up of his animation starting (which looks janky as hell, his model looks like it resets). At that time, you have 200 ms to dodge sideways. What math do you want exactly? The tail has a clear visual cue (and audio cue that pops at the same time though slightly later), and the charge time is 0.2s. That's all the math you need. The tail isn't meant to be easy to dodge BY DESIGN because it's already difficult to hit.
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If you really think Xeno is such a free win, then please stream yourself winning 50 games in a row with Xeno, using only these two addons you keep saying are a free win.
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I mean, I DO have a pretty low reaction time (last I checked was around 180ish although I am getting old) but what I'm talking about involves no reaction whatsoever. It involves prediction. The Xeno was obviously waiting until you ran into the pallet before M2ing; he was going for the safe hit. You were, in all likelihood, gonna get hit there (which is, and has been my point this entire time). BUT, you MAY have outplayed him IF you ran into the zone of the pallet, and ran back out and to the side, or crouched, or even hail mary'd the pallet.
It's 0.2 seconds, not 0.02. And I like how you failed to address my analogy about any of those other killers being able to secure a hit there. I wonder why you make a special exception for Xeno and refuse to adapt to playing against this one specific killer.
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you play an online game where the killer has the hit authority and not a offline game on your computer.
initial conditions:
- wind up time of the tail attack: 200ms
- survivor is injured
- average killer ping: 50ms
- average survivor ping: 50ms
- human reation time to visual input: 150ms for a gamer (250ms is the average for a human)
- I'm asuming here you can identify the animation of the tail attack and start your reaction within the first 18 frames on a 120 fps system and press a button (1000ms / 120 * 18 = 150ms)
- i'm not sure if the first 18 frames are enough information to differentiate between normal movement and the tail attack because its not like a red flash or something. but lets go with 18 frames
the math:
- 200ms: killer starts the tail attack on his computer
- 200ms - 25ms = 175ms: server gets the information and send the info to the survivor
- 175ms - 25ms = 150ms: survivor gets the information from the server and start displaying the information
- 150ms - 150ms = 0ms:
- survivor press a random button and start moving.
- the taill attack executes on the killer pc and the survivor is now put into dying state.
- 0ms - 25ms = -25ms:
- the server get the information from the killer that the survivor was hit and got put into dying state
- the server get the information from the survivor that the survivor started movement
- -25ms - 25ms = -50ms:
- the killer gets the information the survivor wants to started movment and ignores it
- the survivor gets the information the killer hit him and displays the dying state animation
now please explain to me how the survivor should react to the tail attack when by the time you press a button you already have put into dying state. in reality it takes even more time for the survivor to react. I left out a lot of things like input lag for the sake of simplicity: https://www.retrogamedeconstructionzone.com/2020/05/reaction-time-and-game-design.html
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React faster lmao
Also average pings are 50ms, really? Use better ISP
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here is an example with a killer from russia on EU server (~200ms ping) and how i was already dead before my movement showed up on the killer screen.
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All 3 of those statements could be true at the same time. What's your point? Skull Merchant is my least favorite killer to face, and she is followed by xenomorph.
Something that most people seem to forget, in a competitive game both sides need fun things to do AND both sides need to feel like there is a chance to win. This needs to be true at the MMR of the players playing in that match. I don't care that some survivors somewhere are so good they mock the xenomorph with their 100 escape streaks. In my games the survivors get mauled mercilessly by the killer, and often we don't even power the gates. I've had matches with a death at 5 gens fairly frequently, this isn't a match the survivors can win.
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A good team is more than capable of making life miserable for Xeno, the fact that its counterplay requires some effort and for thought from survivors means that the cast majority are going to eat ######### vs xero, this is fine.
As long as paying attention and actualy playing the game to a reasonable level is balanced vs Xeno then I do not care what the average throwing solo q survivor that thinks turrets can make Xeno drop survivors or is going to stun you round a loop or something.
Skill issue.
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Because people focus on stronger units.
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This killer is overtuned and needs slight adjustments. Everybody who disagree, well, you’re kind of making it obvious you haven’t played much survivor during the past week or you went up against people playing Xenomorph for the first time.
What is wrong with Xenomorph?
- He has an addon which reduces the effect of turrets by 35%. Example: there was a turret in shack. I crawled through the window, hit the turret and still had my power. This addon (which everybody runs) makes turrets useless unless you stack multiple next to each other.
- When Pyramid Head or Nemesis miss an attack they stop moving. That is their cooldown period. Alien keeps moving even when he misses. This makes it so you make no distance after a dodged attack.
- He can drag his tail vertically. Meaning, even if you crouch, you can still be hit making dropping pallets useless.
- The tunnels make him recover his power in 3 seconds, when he gets burned. This is way too fast.
- There is no indicator he will use his tail. It is like old Deathslinger.
Conclusion: a killer with very little effective counterplay because he is overtuned. Solo players are disproportionately affected. He is more oppressive than Nurse or Blight in my book since they still have counterplay.
Every game I play people kill themselves on hook the first moment they can. Nobody wants to play against him anymore.
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Are you inferring that hit looks sketchy? Because even on YOUR screen (where ping makes the most difference), it looks perfectly fine. You were dead there either way, good ping or not.
- I've already addressed this, but turrets aren't intended to be a guaranteed power removal. Even without E Helmet, you're supposed to be able to crawl out of tunnel and break a turret. Otherwise, you can essentially force the killer to play the whole match as the tallest M1 killer in the game.
- Nemmy and PH can also both cancel power without using it, hold it forever, and both have secondary functions (both have more range than Xeno, Nemmy can break pallets and walls, PH can hit through walls.
- He's also the only killer in that triumvirate that even has to worry about verticality. Nemmy/PH are guaranteed a hit if you're on the same plane.
- This is by intention. He has to drop chase, enter a tunnel, recover power, and get back out.
- Old Slinger also didn't have to commit to using his power as soon as he pressed M2. One thing everyone likes to forget is Xeno is locked in an animation as soon as he presses M2 and has 3s cooldown if he whiffs.
The purpose of turrets is to distract the killer from chase to buy you time (or take him out if he ignores it), or even take out his power if you place them intelligently.
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I've talked with 2 comp players and both admitted that this Killer is just overtuned. Basically, it's too easy to have great results. He is better than the other "pallet-counter" Killers like Huntress, Slinger or Nemesis AND he is 115% AND he has mobility AND he has his Power relatively fast. There ist also no big mechanical challenge like with Blight or Wesker.
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These are your counterarguments? Really? Ok... I am not even going to bother.
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Which two comp players? It's okay, you can namedrop. Because I've talked with comp and comp-oriented players, to include exize, Array, KnightLight, Hens, and a few more about Xeno. Almost all of them agree Xeno is in a very good place, and the few that had something to say about him is making his missed cooldown recovery slightly less forgiving (you know, the thing that's literally bugged, that the devs are aware of).
Survivor mains when you explain to them why they're wrong:
But no, those are not my "counterarguments", because that would imply you had any argument to begin with. You made an attempt at explaining what was wrong with Xeno, and I told you exactly why you're wrong and a lot of those things are BY DESIGN. If you don't like it, you're free to play a different game. Killers don't exist to be your helpless bully puppets and every once in a while, you have to adapt to playing against a power that's actually strong.
And to answer the question "what is wrong with Xeno", it's quite simple. The missed cooldown recovery doesn't apply properly, and the devs are aware. That's about it.
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No.
I'll take my chances at escape versus Xeno over Nurse or Blight, every single time.
And personally, I'd still have another 2-3 killers I'd hate facing more.
The panic here with some people is out of control.
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I actually play both sides. But hé, keep ‘em coming with that great rhetoric…
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I'm sure you do, gamer. I'm sure you do.
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The problem is the Xeno has 0 need to pre-fire. They can wait until the point of no return (within the pallet boundaries) and tap M2 and never miss. So for a Survivor to play, that is reliant on the Xeno being a baby-Killer and not knowing how to play. If you run backwards enough to dodge a pre-fire, then they simply M1 you instead. Why would the Xeno M2 when they could M1?
The issue in general is Xeno is mathematically uncounterable. At vaults Xeno can M1 if you fake, and reaction M2 against even Resilience fast vaults. At undropped pallets the Xeno can M2 when they need to and walk through and M1 when they don't. Survivor winning against Xeno is on Xeno to fail, not a back and forth between both sides. That means it is entirely on turrets to prevent power to be fair. Unfortunately even without add-ons Xeno can reliably reaction M2 turrets before they can burnt Xeno out of power. So in loops Xeno is uncounterable, and the counter to the uncounterability isn't possible for Survivors to guarantee.
If you live in America the ISPs have bribed (err sorry lobbied) the government to ensure they have a monopoly and provide substandard service with only 1 ISP per area. You can't use a better ISP.
Also react faster? Are you endorsing DCing to have a bot reaction speed instead of human? That's what it sounds like to me.
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M2 has a better cooldown than M1, and also may inflict Mangled with an addon.
Yes, Xeno can force lose-lose situations on dropped pallets/windows. So can a lot of other killers. If you let him get that close, you already screwed up.
Also I just posted a different thread showcasing that it IS indeed possible to react to Xeno's tail.
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As far as M2 having a better CD than M1, do you do the same and give up a free M1 hit in order to get the M2 hit on other Killers? The issue again rolls back around to Xeno's counterplay is on Xeno making a mistake, not the Survivor outplaying or even having a chance against them.
"If you let them get that close" - How can I not let them get that close when tunnels are available at every generator, and Xeno can simply emerge from a tunnel during the ~15s average it takes to set up a turret and get a free hit regardless. Xeno also gets footsteps to follow if I burn it out of power and it goes back into the tunnel to ignore the detriment of that.
Link to the thread? I've posted in multiple threads how it is mathematically impossible to react to the tail, and others in this thread (I believe Nirgendwohin did that here) have also done the math as well. The issue is not only that you need to use normal human reactions (.25s visual average, .17 audio average), but you also have to move the Survivor far enough to avoid the draggable hitbox as well. With visual times there is no time to react, and with sound, you have .03s or 30ms to react, and that basically means if the Killer has 30ms or more they get a free hit because they hit the Survivor on their screen, and we don't have hit validation except with pallet stuns. The post where someone showed if the Survivor attempts to read the Killer (on Borgo) showed a lose-lose with no possible valid option for the Survivor.
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Lol exactly that, I knew this was also feeling too familiar.
We've reach that level of cope by killers insisting that a blatantly overtuned killer is fine.
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Actually one of those guys said that it's too easy to be good on this killer but i'm not gonna namedrop here and make you snitch. And that's also my opinion btw (ex-comp player with 4k hours, even though that doesn't mean anything). Xeno reminds me a little bit of old Freddy (not old-old Freddy), has much going for him but needs not much skill to properly use those things. He is not unbeatable of course. There is also nothing wrong with A-tier killers, but unlike Wesker you can just pick him up and instantly dominate most teams. There is this old game balance logic, things that are very good AND very easy to play will always break a game, there is actually even a yt video about this.
Those killers have to earn their "guaranteed" hits. Nemesis needs to infect you first and his tentacle builds up in strength over time. He is 115% but he has no map pressure, only the zombies for some minimal slowdown/ annoyance. Huntress is slower and needs to reload, absolutely no map pressure except for long shots. Same goes for Deathslinger, more reach and slightly faster projectile but 110%, no tracking and map pressure. There is no real comparison between those killers even though the "pallet-1v1" may be the same outcome most of the time. I'm not even mentioning the stealth part as this is probably his weakest aspect. But his tracking in the tunnels, the information you get, combine this with an experienced DBD player and you get a killer who is always where he needs to be and is obnoxious in chase, not on a Nurse/Blight/Spirit level but with no real downside (except for turrets) and many upsides.
Do you mean react or predict? Pretty sure you can't dodge his tail without predicting where it will go, distance is too close, hitboxes too big, movement too slow. Reacting to it would mean stand still and just start moving once he began the attack.
The turrets could be the gamechanger, but they need to be stronger. There have to be more of them and transport should be faster.
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He has negative reaction time lmao. It's really apparent that you have to guess Tail attacks and the guessing game is heavily skewered to the Alien player's favor
Until this guy makes a video of him reliably dodging tails in a chases his flat out lying. There is no way anyone can react to tail.
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One sided much...
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His tail attack needs to have a longer cooldown after a missed attack. Other than that I have zero problems with Xenomorph.
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I do think the Turrets should be changed so they increase wiggle progress if the Alien is carrying a survivor. It's very strange to me that in that particular situation turrets essentially do nothing.
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Well, the cooldown is not the only problem with him. The fact that he does not have a literal cue when he will attack (your reaction has to be literally negatively timed) is also broken:
now, imagine this killer, with the huge slow down that it has, using this mechanic to tunnel down or camp a survivor at 5 gens. This killer has a way oppressive power to rule the game in the few minutes of the match.
With our anti tunneling perks being nerfed to the ground, and endurance not stacking, it is not possible to force the killer not to tunnel someone before the first gen is done. Out of the record is countered by just a slap after unhook, Decisive Strike is useless bc you don’t get enough distance to reach a safe zone, guardian is a joke of a perk, borrowed time don’t stack with out of the record and it is countered by a simple slap after unhook.
This killer can just camp (or proxy camp) the area, hit the unhooker, then down the unhooker, and then tunnel the unhooked having all the time of the world to down him/her/them. The justification for that is on the fact that one survivor will be down, another at risk of being deleted from the game in 5 seconds, another technically setting torrents, and one doing gens. (This is in the most optimistic scenario, but it is very chaotic seeing it in practice).
This killer is overpowered and way too much oppressive to be in this current state. The devs must address this issue with the proper response that it deserves.
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