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Nemesis Needs an Overhaul
The Nemesis needs an overhaul. There is no doubt in my mind that the current version of Nemesis should be completely changed into something that is more in line with his character and less risk-free from design.
The current version of Nemesis is, in a way, an interesting take on him but it ultimately doesn't feel like the Nemesis that the players deserve to play as or against. He is not fast, he is not intelligent, he is just a character with an M2 that hits three times to down.
And as of 7.2.0, it is more apparent than ever that he needs to be reworked due to the existence of The Xenomorph and The Mastermind having something shared with him at least.
- The Xenomorph with an ability similar to Tentacle Strike but better in most situations.
- The Mastermind with the Vaccine mechanic changed to the First Aid Spray.
More and more time is passing and making Nemesis feel less unique and interesting to play aside from the few "quirks" that can make the game not feel fun for either side--zombies for Killers, anti-loop for Survivors.
So developers, this is an open letter to you, from at least me, in saying that Nemesis needs to be put on your list of Killers that need to be changed in a significant way. Not in the way of Ghost Face or Legion, but in the way of Doctor and Nightmare.
In my personal opinion, Nemesis needs to be completely changed into something more fundamentally unique and not resembling any Killer playstyle to date. Something that makes him still feel like the Nemesis we have now, but with something new added to him and many things removed to make him feel more like the Nemesis that people saw when playing Resident Evil 3.
What this is could ultimately be up to you, but Nemesis needs to be redesigned because of the fact that other Killers have taken his aspects and made them better by viability or design, and he already feels that much outdated compared to the new characters.
With that said, I ask that Nemesis be re-examined as a Killer and updated to feature something new and unique to him that makes him fully stand out as a Killer before he's even more outdated by the time of another Killer's release.
Comments
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What? Make him jump and smash walls?
And give the survivors pistols?
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Nemesis is suppose resemble a killer that has brute strength and the idea of swarming survivors by a zombie apocalypse. It is just that both of those aspects are under-tuned.
the representation of brute strength is his pallet breaking. the issue is that his pallet break is not exactly very fast. both chainsaw killers take less time to break pallets and c33 blight represent brute strength better than the nemesis himself. Singularity also potentially represents brute strength a lot better. in term of hitting over loops, the crouching mechanic instantly erases any threat level on the whip. the 3 health-state is cherry on top. strange aspect of 3 health-states is that according to wiki, His whip applies 20% hindered effect for 0.2 seconds. So clearly down the line, his kit is suppose have mini-sbtfl effect where you gain less distance per health-states but once again the values are so bad that it is unnoticeable
His zombie apocalypse is 2 zombies. the dev said that reason why there is only 2 zombies is engine limitations. more zombies supposedly creates lag. AI is really hard to code so I think this aspect of the kit is more technical limitation. My guess is that it is something to do with AI getting stuck on maps but I have no clue. crates only have vaccines but perhaps they were suppose have guns or something.
the killer likely had a lot of ideas but none of them were implemented. Likely a time crunch issue or they simply decided to not put them in dbd. nemesis feels like a beta killer. lots of beta-type mechanics but none of them fully flesh-out.
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The biggest problem with Nemesis is the zombies still have garbage AI, and BHVR added so many line of sight breakers to maps that the zombies are really bad at finding survivors. The zombies should be reworked to be much better at hearing (i.e. not affected by sound occlusion) and responding to survivor noises, even if it's just survivor footstep noises.
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there is add-on's for that. admin wristband. it is just that zombies stats so bad that there is no real point in using add-on to improve them. I am pretty sure the zombies are meant to be a bigger part of his kit but they're just not really worth anything besides maybe a random tracking perk or a random hit that occurs.
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Admin wristband is useless, because it requires line of sight, and BHVR super boosted the number of line of sight breakers in maps.
The zombies need buffs related to audio detection, so that the zombies can still find survivors even when they are surrounded by line of sight breakers.
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More like this:
Tentacle Strike
- Nemesis no longer has access to the Lunge Attack ability, but still has access to the Basic Attack ability.
- Tentacle Strike replaces the ability to Lunge Attack, now being charge-based (1 second) with more charging increasing its range. Once fully charged, it can be held but slows Nemesis down when being held.
- Tentacle Strike can still hit Survivors over pallets and certain areas, but due to the highly telegraphed start-up this should not be an issue.
- Tentacle Strike still counts as a Special Attack, preventing it from being stacked with perks such as Sloppy Butcher or Save the Best for Last.
- Tentacle Strike still requires the Survivor be Contaminated before being able to injure them.
Contamination
- Contamination now builds up over time upon a Survivor being hit by Tentacle Strike and can be further increased with more hits.
- Contamination now has a negative downside of the Infected Status Effect, which causes Survivors to continuously cough loudly and allows Tentacle Strike to put them into the Dying State in one hit.
- Vaccines can now respawn over a period of 60 seconds per Supply Case.
- Vaccines now stop the progression of Contamination and cause it to decay over time, but if the Survivor is hit by Tentacle Strike or a Zombie again, the progression will resume but they will not receive instant progression.
- Vaccines fully decontaminate any Survivor that is afflicted with the Infected Status Effect.
Mutation
- Mutation is now a progressive system similar to Blood Fury.
- Mutation requires a total of 15 points in order to reach Maximum Mutation.
- Maximum Mutation grants the following effects to Tentacle Strike:
- Increases Tentacle Strike range by 1 meter if held for an additional 0.3 seconds after fully charging.
- Grants Tentacle Strike the ability to break pallets and walls upon fully charging.
- Grants Tentacle Strike the ability to damage and contaminate Generators.
Rocket Launcher
- Rocket Launcher replaces the Tentacle Strike ability as the Power Button attack.
- Rocket Launcher is another charge-based attack that slows Nemesis down by a significant amount (-75%), but allows him to send out a singular projectile towards an unfortunate Survivor.
- Rocket Launcher isn't loaded at the start of the Trial, instead taking 30 seconds for the first one to load.
- Rocket Launcher missiles take 60 seconds to reload after being fired, but this can be shortened using Tentacle Strike.
- Rocket Launcher missile cooldown can be seen on the launcher itself.
- Rocket Launcher has a laser sight that indicates where it is going to fire, allowing for Survivors to possibly counter it.
- Missiles can break pallets and walls, or damage generators, on direct hit with them.
- Survivors and Nemesis can hear Nemesis roaring when he brings up the Rocket Launcher.
- Survivors directly hit by a missile (or within 1 meter of the blast) will be injured by the attack.
- Survivors within the splash zone of the missile will be Hindered (-20%) for 5 seconds and be revealed by Killer Instinct for that duration of time.
Zombies
- Zombies now have a new ability to those that are Infected. When within range of an Infected survivor, the Zombie will dash forward up to two times in order to try grabbing at and biting the vulnerable Survivor, which damages them.
- Zombies can also further increase the contamination progress of a Survivor when they hit them.
- Zombies can be notified to go to a specific location by the explosion sound of the Rocket Launcher.
- Zombies have AI pathing improvements and animation changes to make them feel like they do in the RE games.
Pretty much a change that could redefine how Killers can be made, and gives Nemesis more identity as himself with the addition of the Rocket Launcher. (The Rocket Launcher might be hotly debated, but it's one of his most defining features as a horror antagonist and is very easy to balance in a game like this.)
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This is not sarcasm but what if survivors could get a gun in Supply Cases?
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I'd take his sprint ability over the rocket launcher as it doesn't really belong in this game.
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It makes Nemesis "Nemesis" if he has the ability to use weapons.
There is absolutely zero problem in giving Nemesis the weapon he is known for using in the majority of his game if you can balance it.
Besides, we have a Killer who can spit out goo balls of technology and biology, a Killer who quite literally puts skulls on drones in an attempt to look edgy and scary, and three weapons Survivors can use to harm the Killer in some capacity now (Flash Grenade, Flame Turret, Ice Bomb). A rocket launcher belongs if these can belong.
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It makes Nemesis "Nemesis" if he has the ability to use weapons.
So does his sprint ability, which he uses way more often than his rocket launcher in the RE3 remake.
There is absolutely zero problem in giving Nemesis the weapon he is known for using in the majority of his game if you can balance it.
First off: He most certainly does not use his Rocket Launcher throughout the majority of the RE3 remake (which is the iteration he's based after), he uses his sprint and tentacle way more, only using the rocket launcher during a single chase segment in a very short part of the game.
Secondly: Just because you can balance something does not mean it should be included, especially not when it doesn't fit thematically.
Also you don't know if there are zero problems in giving Nemesis a Rocket Launcher, in theory it may seem fine, but in practice it may very much not work out at all, saying that ''it can be balanced'' is not enough to excuse or justify it's inclusion when you don't even know if it'll work in practice to begin with. (And no, just because something works in other games does not mean it will work here as well)
Besides, we have a Killer who can spit out goo balls of technology and biology, a Killer who quite literally puts skulls on drones in an attempt to look edgy and scary, and three weapons Survivors can use to harm the Killer in some capacity now (Flash Grenade, Flame Turret, Ice Bomb). A rocket launcher belongs if these can belong.
None of those are lethal projectile weapons such as guns and explosive launchers that can be used offensively, those kinds of things do not belong here no matter what, in fact just look at Deathslinger's gun, the only reason it even got added was because the devs designed it specifically to fit around the gameplay loop, something that a rifle that uses bullets would never have accomplished the same way.
Grenades and mines also cannot be used offensively by Survivors, which is why you can only drop them and not aim and throw them like in Resident Evil, turrets is also placed to work defensively against Xenomorph to counteract it's power as the Killer has to come to the turret before it works against them.
Not to mention grenades, mines and other utility tools that Survivors can use against the Killer defensively are not even remotely on the same level as adding lethal projectile weapons.
Post edited by Smoe on2 -
I've never understood why people act like DBD's Nemesis isn't an accurate or faithful adaptation of the character. I've played RE3 remake, and that big brute uses his tentacle more than the damn rocket launcher everyone keeps harping on about. I would argue, quite vehemently, that pulling from the thing Nemesis actually uses for a majority of the game he's pulled from is much more accurate and faithful than pulling from the thing he uses in one short section.
Nemesis using his tentacle as a multi-purpose tool for reacting to the environment, harming people, and applying infection is pretty much the entirety of what he does outside of the two sections where he gets heavy weapons. Even without touching the nightmare it would be to actually balance those both mechanically and tonally in this game, it's just not necessary for adapting him; they're single-level gimmicks, not his character's actual defining elements.
He's not weak, either. Tentacle Strike is a very strong ability, that allows you to get hits in spots where almost no other killer in the game can. At the time of his release, the only comparable killer was Pyramid Head, and I'd argue Tentacle Strike is both different enough to Punishment of the Damned that it works on a "must be unique" level as well as kinda being stronger because it isn't telegraphed nearly as heavily.
I'm not against buffing Nemesis, mind, I'd love to see the zombies and his addons get some attention, but he doesn't need a fundamental overhaul.
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I love playing Nemesis, and I feel ike he's fine the way he is. Yeah, "he takes 3 hits to down someone", I get that. However, it feels satisfying to me whenever I infect someone, and then especially if it makes me tier up. Not too infrequently I have my zombies hit someone and help me out, it's both fun and funny.
I agree that Wesker and Xenomorph seem like an upgrade compared to Nemesis in some ways. Still, I feel great satisfaction with injury x infection. Even if midchase I can only hit someone with the tentacle (not M1) at a certain vault, while they are already injured and non-infected, and the hit doesn't down them but rather infects them, it feels satisfying to me.
I feel like Nemesis is one of the best designed killers. He's decently strong (good antiloop), and also fun. You tier up twice in a match, it's a mini-goal to work for. Achieving goals is satisfying. You can break pallets and walls with his tentacle (unlike Xenomorph). He's got a pretty solid kit, imo.
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I appreciate a fellow rocket launcher believer, but I don't think it needs to be a rework to the base character, I would prefer it be an iridescent addon or something. When you hit Tier 3, grab it from a vaccine case, you get significantly slowed while carrying it, and can shoot an AoE instadowning shot only once, then you throw it away and go back to normal.
While I don't think current Nemesis is the absolute best adapation that could've possibly existed, he's still very, very good, and some other Killers really need conceptual reworks at the moment. I don't think there's any reason to seriously overhaul him, and his balancing can comfortably stay in the range of numbers adjustments and zombie AI improvements.
I also think it's worth appreciating that even just the rocket launcher would be a absolute load of effort compared to a lot of other rework concepts. I don't think Freddy's rework was that intensive for BHVR compared to making a new Killer for example, but in comparison a rocket launcher would require a lot of new animation work, gameplay balancing, and bugtesting. (as I don't think any current mechanic works like an AoE explosion intended to be blocked by cover, so say hi to a billion more collision issues)
I WANT that goddamn rocket launcher, the world NEEDS the rocket launcher, but we have to bide our time for the moment, sadly
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Nemesis is fine
When played well he eats through pallets like a fat kid eating cake and makes most loops unsafe for Survivor
Zombies are RNG but can be extremely strong when they work
The only things I would change about Nemesis is make the Zombie AI less prone to get stuck and buff some of his addons
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inventing rocket launcher is too much work. your inventing a premier camping mechanic that is similar to trickster's main event or leatherface chainsaw at the hook.
i don't think direct sprint mechanic would be good idea because of homogenizes killer powers. if you are going add mobility to nemesis then the mobility should be unique. a unique idea could be something like a grapple hook mechanic where you can tag his whip on objects. you pull yourself towards object similar to how wesker's virulent bound works. something like that would be major rework to how whip functions. i would not be opposed to the whole idea of mobility but I don't think they were going for that.
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In all honesty, i don't think Nemesis needs either, it's more of a "if he has to" kind of change, also if sprint were to be added, i'd make the trade off that it can first be used at tier 3 and that it would come at the cost of your mutation where the more you use sprint, the more of your mutation bar that you've built up over the course of the trial gets consumed.
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That's right BHVR. Give us the rocket launcher. Let's see shack pallet save you from this bad boy.
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Here's an overview idea what I would change with on nemesis to make a more complete killer. The changes will be broken up in 4 parts. each part will be brief summary of the idea.
1) Zombies
2) Infection & supply cases
3) Tentacle strike & tier system.
4) add-on adjustments
Zombie system changed to work like Knight's guard system. Zombies will wandered around the map, When a survivor enters the zombie detection range for 3 seconds, the zombie will sprint for 150% m/s for 3 seconds which is gradually reduced to 100% m/s.
Zombies unlike Knight guards do not damage health-state but only infect the survivor. The zombie chase lasts for 45 seconds. The zombie is automatically killed when it hits a survivor or when the chase timer expires by any means.
Zombie stat changes:
-Added new detection radius to be 12 meters.
-Zombie walking speed increased from 50%(2.0) to 75%(3.0).
-Zombies may suffer 6 gunshots to be stunned for 5 seconds.
-Zombies hit by thrown fire-arm when stunned will die.
Infection:
-Infection no longer grants survivor extra health-states.
-When survivor is hit by tentacle strike or a zombie, they become infected.
-When a survivor is hit by tentacle strike attack when infected, survivors are cleansed from infection. the survivor are also cleansed from infection when put into the dying state.
-Survivors suffer a 25% hindered penalty for 2 seconds when hit by tentacle strike when infected.
Tentacle strike:
-Increased tentacle strike attack distance from 5->6
-Added pallet break to Tentacle strike
-Movement when holding tentacle increased from 3.8 m/s ->4.0 m/s.
-Tier 1/Tier 2/tier 3 system removed.
Supply cases:
Supply cases no longer spawn vaccines. supply cases now spawn fire-arms pistols. Pistols have 6 shots. The pistols have auto-aim and work similarly to ghostface reveal mechanic. When you are able to shoot, a red dot icon will be visible on the zombie. Pistols can be fired while running but you must be facing in the direction of the zombie to fire. Your camera must also be facing the zombie. Survivor that have mastered moon-walking will find it easier to take out zombies.
-Press R key(Drop item button) to throw pistol fire-arm. Zombies that are stunned will be killed.
-Supply cases search time reduced from 12 seconds to 6 seconds.
-Open supply cases will remain open for 10 seconds with unlimited fire-arm picks ups. The supply case will close after 10 second
Few sample add-on changes:
Iridescent Umbrella Badge:
Survivors infected by umbrella virus are put into the dying state when hit by a zombie.
Shattered S.T.A.R.S. Badge:
All entity supply cases are blocked by the entity for the entire trial.
Licker Tongue(Purple add-on):
Survivors hit by the tentacle strike have their aura shown for 8 seconnds.
Depleted Ink Ribbon(Purple):
-Reduces chase activation time from 3 seconds to 2 seconds.
-Increases zombie detection radius by 1 meter.
T-Virus Sample(Purple add-on)
-Survivors hit by tentacle strike automatic consume the infection on-hit.
-Hindered penalty reduced from 25% to 10%.
NE-a Parasite(purple add-on):
Upon being inflicted by umbrella virus, survivors suffer oblivious for 60 seconds.
Marvins blood:
Tentacle strikes apply the mangled status effect.
Tyrant core:
Tentacle strikes apply the hemorrhage status effect
Zombie heart:
Decreases zombie respawn time by 5 seconds.
--bonus meme add-on:
Adrenaline Injector:
-Zombies no longer infect the survivor on hit.
-Injured survivors hit by the zombies are healed from injured to healthy.
-Grants 25% Bloodpoints gains in all Categories.
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Post edited by Devil_hit11 on0 -
An excellent suggestion, but I have an amendment: Vaccines will still be available, but they require a key that you may find when you take a gun
The gun can be used against Nemesis to slow him down or stun him
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being hindered as killer is annoying and stunning killer is out of the question. I don't want invent some new advanced form of body blocking that can be exploited. you can however use guns to kill zombies that chase your teammate.
the vaccines are not available because the idea is that something like the plague where the infection spreads and it becomes epidemic. the nemesis can capitalize on the infection if he chases healthy survivors that are infected. something that I forgot to write was that the infection is cleansed when you get put into dying state. This was just a playful idea I had for nemesis where I wondered what it would be like if there was killer where the M2 felt like playing vs a killer that has machine-gun type m2.
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I mean, use all the pistol bullets on Nemesis' head to stun him or empty the entire pistol on Nemesis' foot to slow him down (don't accumulate and only while he's being chased)
As for the vaccine, the idea is to find a key to Supply Cases to get a vaccine that can be used twice for yourself or others
As it is, it is limited
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our boi nemi needs a rocket loncha
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