Survivors are at an all time low
It's impressive how much I scratched my head on Solo Q it wasn't this bad Two years ago. The healing nerf and Dead hard mori really showed how much Survivor in general don't know ######### they're doing when they don't have the allowance to heal theirselves all the time and don't have the peace of mind to dead hard into a pallet if they got caught in a bad situation. Also the increase of unsafe pallets.
It's so blatant how much you can see Survivors throwing the match entirely when they do totems or heal instead of pumping generators at an important point in the match. GG
Comments
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god forbid survivors play even slightly unoptimal, i guess
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I actually had a great day yesterday. For the first time in months I think I escaped probably 7-8 games in a row. That was even after offering a couple killers an endgame kill. They all carried me to the exit gate anyway. Then after 5 PM hit and it all went down hill. I'm not sure I escaped a single game after that lol.
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This is unfortunately not how the game is played anymore. Everyone wanted to optimize the fun out of it. I put in 4000 hrs between Slinger and Wesker and barely play anymore. I don't find the game fun on either side most of time. Xeno was what I was waiting for for in terms of license but the game still stinks right now.
Patiently waiting for good changes and I would dump 1000's more hours when/if they come but for now other games are more fun. It's what the player base needs to do instead of suffering match after match with no fun.
Play something else people. It's good for you I promise. Got to force them to move faster somehow? Buying things and suffering through gameplay is not the way to do it.
@GentlemanFridge majority of this was not towards you. Your post just triggered my rant. Sorry
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Players can play how they want. If the totem is more important than the escape, let it be so.
In dbd, the most sweaty player wins most matches. Whether that's a comp blight/ nurse or a 4man swf.
Solo has it harder, that's how it is and how it has always been.
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Eh if you're not working the main objective for the entire match you're working with the killer IMO. No one is talking about a sweaty Nurse/Blight vs a 4 man. Solo q has always been harder but 2 years ago it wasn't pointless to play.
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That's a bit exaggerating dont you think?
If someone if not on gens 24/7 they are not working with the killer. Survivors doing a clutch flashlight rescue. Sabo safe or take a hit for a survivor being chased do the exact opposite. What you seem to want is the most comp oriented and least fun version in dbd with not much interaction at all. Please correct me if I'm wrong.
I honestly haven't changed my playstyle as killer much in the last 3 years, still going for as many hooks as possible. From my perspective and what I've seen in my soloq matches, survivors stick more to gens than ever before.
You could actually compare that to tunneling. Both sides are not convinced enough, they can win without playing this way.
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I meant not working the main objective at all for the entire match. Also I don't feel like doing your main objective should be considered comp, it should just be considered normal play.
I think the main issues is MMR and match making, just give solo q the rank based system back. Reward players for what they do in the match and give them a reason to play matches out when you get a ######### team.
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There are reasons someone might be doing a totem that may not be even wasting time at all, let alone throwing. I myself do totems because I run Inner Healing, which means I'm setting up not needing a teammate to heal me later on, which means I can be healthy for a clutch save or to waste more time in a chase at crucial moments.
Speaking of, uh, healing? You should be healing, that's not throwing. Unless you mean using Self-Care to heal themselves without something like Botany to back it up, which is a bit more reasonable of a critique. If you mean healing teammates at all, though, that's something you should be doing.
Don't get me wrong, solo queue has always had and will always have the problem of teammates that crouch in a corner instead of doing anything productive at all, but I think it's very easy to fall into the mindset of "Not being on generators at all times = throwing", which is not only not accurate, it's a mindset that'll lead you to optimise all the fun out of your matches. The thing that loses you matches is teammates who do nothing, not teammates that do side objectives as well.
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Thinking that Survivors should only be doing Gens is what I find to be a problem
Survivors have other things to do... Totems, Saving and Healing come to mind
But that's why players complain about Gen Rushing and 3Genning
How much skill does it take to do all 5 Gens in 5 minutes...
How much skill does it take to stand by 3 Gens until the Survivors give up
If all I face is Survivors whom want to do all of the Gens in 5 minutes... what should I do Try Harder, or just let it happen?
If all I face are Killers whom either Tunnel or stand at a 3Gen... What should I do Try harder or just give up?
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People complain when I do gens or do gens too quickly. Now people are complaining that i'm not doing that but doing totems or healing instead. I can't keep up lol. I do what makes the match fun in that moment. Do you need me to give you an itinerary of what i'll be doing during the match or you good?
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I have said it a hundred times and I'll say it a hundred times more.
SBMM doesn't work.
It has never worked.
It will never work.
Hockey based matchmaking that ignores every important parameter that should be considered when creating a match is simply not going to produce the desired outcome.
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true. After that was introduced I started having less fun in matches
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Sorry but not every moment is a healing time. There is important points in the game where the survivor shouldn't be doing anything else other than pumping generator. They do something else and it quite frankly becomes an unwinnable scenario and at best a Hatch game.
Now imagine a Chess Player Traper who is just dwindling Survivor resources with Sloppy and holding a really good Three gen scenario then there's only three survivors left. The ONLY time the Trapper commits to a chase away from the three gen. One survivor does the generator up to 70% until the trapper finally returned and kicked the gen with Pop. Where was the second survivor in that scenario? Oh wait he's investing his time looking for totems then going into a locker. If there were two survivors there the generator would have been finished and MAYBE the two would have escaped via exit gates because the trapper is finally forced to do chases on parts of the map where there's actually pallets?
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Well lets see how we got here.
Our two best anti tunneling perks got deleted.
At the same time killers received a huge buff to gens and chasing in general.
Healing got gutted into the floor.
At the same time killers have the strongest meta perks ever.
And arguably the strongest killer in the game all around just got released.
It's so bad that people are literally telling survivors to form a SWF. Instead of arguing for solo buffs, they are telling you to give up on what you enjoy about the game.
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Well, hold up, there's some issues here. Going in order just for structure--
One anti-tunnel perk was mostly deleted, Decisive Strike. I genuinely don't know what second perk you mean. Borrowed Time? That only isn't brought now because it's basekit, so I assume you don't mean that.
Won't contest the second point, that did happen. I don't think it's fair to say the chase buffs were "huge", but the generator buffs were. That was kinda needed, though.
Healing wasn't gutted. Healing itself wasn't even touched. Two specific sources of self healing were lowered to just "good" instead of "overpowered" in the one case and shifted to altruistic healing in the other, but that's not the same as healing being gutted.
I strongly disagree with this point. The strongest killer meta ever was probably Eruption/Overcharge/Call of Brine, but even setting that aside I'm not convinced the meta overall is significantly stronger than other points in history.
Xeno's strong, it's not Nurse or Blight strong.
Finally, what some others have said aside, solo survivor is far from hopeless. It's perfectly possible to have fun and do well. People are just burnt out and frustrated.
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you cant in this current meta or survivors lose lol.
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That's a really specific scenario, though. How often does that even happen, let alone someone choosing to cleanse a totem in that scenario?
That's like, one really annoying game, not an overall trend.
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Wait, they made the rainbow crow an icon now? When was that a thing?
(Yes I know this is offtopic, Ive just never seen it before until now.)
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Half the games I win (which is a good bit) have survivors make at least 1 gigantic mistake, that leaves you wondering how they could even manage to mess up so bad. It's not slightly unoptimal when someone kills themself on first hook because they didn't get their way. And it's neither slightly unoptimal when survivors rush at a killer with an insta down and make themselves easy targets.
I also don't consider sitting on a gen in the killer's face when you are dead on hook a slightly unoptimal play. Or 3 people running around a recently hooked survivor. Or camping every pallet and never attempting to loop anything (backfires, if the game goes too long). These are all things that are so easily avoidable when you actually use your brain for a bit.
Many survivors are so bad at the game, that they can only push themselves with their strongest items and addons. But when they go against someone, who plays good in the 1v4 they crumble. This is not just a solo queue issue but a skill issue in general.
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Minor point of order: it actually considers the only important parameter (win rate relative to other players vs common opponents). It just then discards all logic once queue times go above 2 seconds and backfills happen. The MMR number itself is fine. They just fail to use it effectively.
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Dead hard and DS were your two strongest tools against a tunneling killer, they are both a shell of what they were before. Not to mention if a killer hits you off the hook like many do now. You don't even have access to it anymore.
The basic attack cool down change was pretty big. Killers can run STBFL and almost prevent you from being able to unhook.
Boon circle of healing got killed. Medkits are almost not worth running. Sloppy butcher is busted. Healing got gutted my dude. There's no slicing it to make it look good.
People are still running those perks, I literally just 4kd two games in a row using eruption. On killers I suck at. Were still in regression meta kick man. Nothing has changed.
She is better than blight right now, we will see if the bug fix makes her less so.
It's nearly hopeless. 25% of the games are tolerable. So we have that going for us.
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Stealth, gens, totems- thats the order of my focus and the successful results have onky increased over the years. I cant think of one major survivor change that has negatively impacted my performance in all my time, though several changes have been extremely beneficial.
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Which is why I really push back when people say this game has become too competitive. The vast majority of players on either side fail at the basics of macro level play. They fail spectacularly. They aren't remotely competitive. 9 out 10 games are winnable just by showing up and not throwing, because the other side will.
What most killers deem to be a deathsquad SWF is just 4 players who don't actively sabotage themselves. Most players would implode in a scrim against a team from DbDLeague.
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This is just one example and this isn't specific scenario. Important points in matches happens all the time in matches it doesn't have to be 1 - 1 exact replica of the situation it could even been where it just puts your team at a massive disadvantage instead of a game ending mistake. What those important points are you have to figure that out.
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Okay, but you must concede that's deeply misleading? Sure, Dead Hard was one of your strongest tools against a tunnelling killer... because it was blatantly, absurdly overpowered in all scenarios. There's no way of slicing the Dead Hard nerf that makes it look anything but overwhelmingly necessary and positive.
The basic attack cooldown change wasn't that big. It did indirectly buff STBFL (though that perk isn't useful for camping unless it's towards the end of the game), but on its own it was a minor change.
CoH was made into a pretty good altruistic perk, to be clear, but it's fair to say the self-heal part was killed. Medkits are extremely worth running, you just have to actually think about them now. Sloppy Butcher literally hasn't changed since Hem... spelling was changed. Healing is perfectly viable and possible in literally all of your games, and self healing just requires bringing different tools + being a bit smarter about it. There's no way to slice it otherwise.
People are running Eruption, sure, but it's not broken like it used to be. It's just pretty good, on some killers. Eruption pre-nerf was unambiguously the strongest meta we've had, the meta we have right now is actually pretty healthy overall.
Agree to disagree on Xeno.
Conclusion, I don't think it's hopeless at all. I'm doing just fine and having just as much fun as ever, overall.
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Agreed. I lose against many solos just because they don't throw. Nobody hook suiciding or disconnecting, some basic level looping and a few good decisions every now and then are enough to win most games because *spoiler alert* most killers aren't tournament winning professional basement dwellers either.
Most groups have at least 1 weak link. That does not mean they are bad in chase necessarily but they make stupid decisions overall. I can't count the amount of players that tried to annoy me and make me chase them by running around me, completely forgetting that they hinder their team by contributing nothing when I chase after someone else. And of course when 1 survivor doesn't pull their weight, then their entire team will fall too. That's how a 1v4 works.
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I don't think most people call doing a singular totem throwing. Its just when you can see on the HUD they did 2-3 totems in a row before a single injury or other icon popping up that people will call them a troll/throwing.
The other instance is when you see someone in the basement for a chest while you are on hook. That is undefendable beyond tomes, but a tome asking you to throw is a tome asking you to throw. If all the gens are popped, and the gates are prepped, idc do what you want. But if you don't even tap the gate adjacent to our final gen for a NWO check, when I run off the final gen early for a hook save only to take chase, I'm going to say you threw the game when I activate NWO myself 2 minutes later.
The new Community Coordinator (or some such specific title I forget) announced their arrival, and they added a bunch of forum icons for missing Killers/Survivors and more. So make sure to thank them if you see them around on the forums and you like the new profile pics.
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Well I think solo queue right at this moment is as bad as ever because many of the better players are playing as the new popular killer (the best players always play both sides, and this is also part of the reason why the bonus has been stuck on surv since Xeno dropped), and because the playerbase is being flooded by people who don't often play or may have started playing because of this chapter.
IIRC, every time a really hyped/popular killer has dropped there has been a talent drain from the surv side to the killer side for a short while.
That said, my solo queue teammates the past week plus have been as bad as I can ever remember. I think this is having as much do do with people's angst over Xeno as the killer itself.
I do not however feel like this is because survivor has been nerfed too much. I think in terms of overall game design, DBD is as balanced as it has ever been (not nearly as much as it could be, though).
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I mean I guess the meta is healthy. People only DC in about 20% of games and the kill rate is nearing 65%. But hey, it's healthy right?
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Yep! Good spread of perks, so you've got variety, and the perks themselves are generally of a healthy design and strength level.
What's the source on those stats?
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This seems reasonable but I wonder why people aren’t as excited to play Ripley. She’s just as iconic as the xenomorph. And she does come with unique perks.
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She is iconic, but at the end of the day she is still just a skin, essentially.
I've been playing mostly surv because of the bonus so I can get both her and Xeno to P3 as quickly as possible, and Ripley will be a permanent fixture in my surv rotation, but functionally she's still the same as the other survs. Plus you can just earn your BP with Xeno and use them on Ripley.
The killer is always going to be the real shiny new toy of any full chapter.
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That’s fair but I guess I thought there were more survivor mains than killer mains. Doesn’t seem to bear out much though.
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We cant all be as good as you.
😕
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There definitely are more survs than killers (there as to be given the 4v1 format), but people who play both sides aren't going to stop playing killer for a while to try the new survivor skin in the same numbers they will stop playing surv for a while to play the new killer, because excepting recent killers like Knight and SM, they are almost always unique to some degree.
And while Ripley has unique perks, none of them scream out "must have". Xeno is the main attraction here, make no mistake, and this is coming from someone who will almost certainly P100 Ripley.
Once people are done with their Xeno fling, things will normalize, as they always do. I just think this is just part of the rhythm of DBD.
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The Xenomorph is the Xenomorph. That is not Ripley. It's a cosplay of Ripley. It doesn't help that her perks aren't the most interesting other than the blast mine one.
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I can't speak for everyone but I go into every match expecting to die. Inadvertently, that might make me play less than optimal sometimes. To me, there's no point in sweating or going all out when the game is designed for solo queue to lose more than they win. It's almost like clockwork at this point whereby I know when to bring BPS and escape cake because I know I'm due for an easier game/s and when to not bother wasting my offerings because I'm due for a more difficult one. There's no in-between.
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Hard disagree.
Let us imagine two hypothetical scenarios in which all 10 players have exactly 1750 MMR.
The first lobby is a 4 men SWF with 4 toolboxes, BNPs, MFT versing a Trapper with yellow addons on Eerie experimenting with perks and addons.
The other lobby is a 4 random SoloQ survivors who are up against a Spirit on Midwich with her best addons and a deep desire to pip to get to Iri 1 so that they can prestige her next month.
According to the theory that MMR is working just fine, both of these matches have a roughly 50% chance of going either Survivor or Killer way. I don't think I need to detail why I think that's very much not the case.
You CAN make the argument that MMR will tend both extremes towards the respective end of the spectrum where they belong, but at the end of the day that will still not create balanced matches in the least bit since maps, perks, swfs, killers, etc are not factored in and will end up with lopsided trials.
And that doesn't even open the can of worms where we have Nurse and Blight mains literally going on 1000 winstreaks because the game is an utterly imbalanced mess.
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I mean, aside from balancing changes making it overall more skill based for survivors anyways, there's the whole fact of the game being about the killers. Think about the fact that people get excited for new killers but rarely get hyped for survivors. Survivors are effectively just skins after you prestige them once. No reason to be hyped for a new skin except for it comes with some cool perks sometimes.
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Almost all the killers I went against today ran NOED. I'd rather just make sure that won't be a problem for me than regret it later
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Then you do that. Everyone can play how they want.
I feel for you having that many noed though. Hope it gets better.
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That's a problem of game balance, not of MMR. The MMR system must assume that the game is balanced, even when it isn't, because otherwise the entire point of matching people based on their skill flies entirely out of the window.
In those scenarios, it should be a roughly 50% chance for either side to win. Skewed a little by the sides bringing unequal tools, sure, there's always going to be a range of options with some better than others, but it shouldn't be anywhere near as impactful as it is- and the fact that it is doesn't mean the matchmaking should change, it means the balance should change.
If you were to create a matchmaker that was predominantly concerned not with the skill of its players, but rather the various different tools those players can bring, it'd need constant and significant tweaking every time one of those things changed.
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And if it does come with a cool perk, it will quickly catch the attention of the killer mains and will promptly be nerfed.
See Made For This and it's upcoming nerf.
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Okay, but BHVR would need to fix one or the other then. Either balance the game properly so that the variables which affect the outcome of a trial are negligible enough that don't have to be taking into account, or adjust matchmaking so that they are weighed in.
I never said that matchmaking should focus mostly on non-skill related variables. But it has to take it into consideration to SOME degree if the devs refuse to balance maps, killers, addons and bring SoloQ closer to SWF. It literally ignores everything, that you yourself admit is completely broken.
Not that they will ever do either of these in reality. I'm just waiting to see what will people scapegoat once BHVR disables lobby dodging and matches are still completely borked. SBMM. Doesn't. Work.
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Well, for starters, yes. The balance issues in this game will need to be fixed regardless, that's not an ultimatum on the MMR system. It's just how it is.
Similarly, the idea of factoring in all the variables that impact a trial is a non-starter. It'd be far too much work for, frankly, not that much return. It would need constant, significant upkeep, enough so that it'd eat into the company's bandwidth for changes and adjustments far too much.
So, then, what we're left with is a situation where BHVR need to adjust imbalances (though I would not say that anything is "completely broken", to be clear) to compensate for outlier scenarios where skill isn't the deciding factor in a match. You'll note that this is the situation we'd be in completely regardless of what matchmaking system BHVR use.
MMR has its issues but it's obviously better than what we had before, and it's obviously not broken on a fundamental level.
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Your a masochist if you play solo q these days.
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I just wanna have fun. And if i wanna put on no mither to feel that experience, then so be it!!
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The problem you have is neither you nor your teammates. The problem you have is different ideas and motivations on how to play the game.
You seem to me like a person who has a competitive mindset and therefore wants to play the match as optimally an flawless as possible so that the chances of winning are as high as possible.
That's okay. BUT... if you decide to play Solo Queue, you have to accept that other strangers don't share the same motivation that drives you.
Some players don't have a competitive mindset, they are happy casuals and want to stay that way. They play for fun, fun for them doesn't mean victory, but rather blood points or achieving their rift challenges. They don't care if they make mistakes, in the end they only care about being able to play a match of a reasonably good length in order to collect points, the result is unimportant.
The problem with DBD is when casuals and competitive players meet. This is when a full casual survivor team faces a comp killer, which is usually a mega stomp, or a casual killer player faces a comp survivor team, with the same result.
But it also happens in the survivor team when 2 comp players meet 2 casuals. The motivations for the match are different.
The only thing that helps you is not to get annoyed with your random teammates because they don't share your ideas of fun, but to look for 3 other teammates here in the forum or on discord or wherever with a competitive mindset and start a swf.
I'm one of those casuals for whom winning means earning BP and doing my rift challenges and thereby earning even more BP and shards and fragments.
And I'll stay that way, competitive gaming isn't fun for me and gaming is my hobby and not my job. I don´want to feel stress while doing my hobby.
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soloQ was not that bad 1 or 2 months ago.
Devs have tweaked the matchmaking and all my games went from being good in soloQ to totally trash with extremely awful survivors.
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Survivors so trash that they are able to not touch a single gen for 5 minutes and for real, it is not a joke...
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