General Discussions
General Discussions
Don't expect the upcoming anti-camping mechanic to actually do anything
I have played 6 games today, and in every single game the killer proxy camped and forced trades. The new killer anti-camping mechanic would have done nothing in every single one of these situations.
Comments
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Because it's not meant to be an anti-camping mechanic.
It's an anti-facecamping mechanic. Killers are still allowed to defend hooks, they just won't be able to park themselves in front of the hook doing nothing else.
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I don't see a difference in parking yourself 20 feet away instead of 5.
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A survivor has an attempt to make a play at unhook without ending in a trade if the killer is 20m away. Not so much when the killer is 5m away.
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Right but what if the killers goal isn't to stop an unhook but to just get free hits on people coming to unhook.
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That's a perfectly valid way to play.
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And takes zero skill, while beating just about any non competitive team in the game.
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Unhooking a survivor itself takes 0 skill. Holding M1 on a gen takes 0 skill.
The game doesn't need to be super "skillful".
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Look. Let's be honest with eachother here. Gens are popping much faster these days, you have every privilege you can ask for in team, and also survivors don't seem to have any sort of :unwritten rules" what to do or what not to do to escape. So There should not be any sort of "proxy camping" nonsense being blamed on a killer. Killer does exactly the same, uses everything and anything to his advantage just like survivors. This entitlement has to stop.
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That's some peak deflection.
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It won't even do that.
- Get hooked
- Leatherface facecamps
- Unhook yourself
- Leatherface chainsaws you twice in one sweep
- Get hooked again
- Why am i on the hook?
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This, they need to make it so powers are not usable within the hooks radius, nothing else will do anything at all. Even to a point of making it so Wesker can't dash to the hook, the dash will stop within 16M of the hook.
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And let's face it, it's to help counter facecamping bubbas who can one shot people on demand that are trying to get an unhook off.
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If you legit can't utilise the speed you get from being hit during endurance to get up to the window, you are legit doing something wrong.
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In other words, you want to take every form of pressure away from the killer and make hook bombing the new norm.
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Ye, tell me the game will never improve without telling me it will never improve.
DbD has never been in such a disgusting state. Pretty much all the fun has been removed from it. Time for this game to get the playerbase it deserves.
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If you don't find the game fun, you are welcomed to stop playing.
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In other words, i'd like the game to be fun. If I can sit on my first hook and die, there is a design problem with the game.
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You can't do that against a Bubba immediately sawing you off hook as he can get the double hit within his 3 charges, and Blight and Nurse make anti-tunnel Endurance a joke regardless.
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Leatherface with his most commonly used addons catches up almost instantly to a survivor that's speed bursting. Unless there's a window or pallet really close to you, there is a very good chance you go down regardless of what you do. You see this countless times in videos by very good content creators. It's definitely not a skill thing here, just the Bubba experience.
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I'm not a main of anything. I know there are no "fairplay rules" as playing survivor, nor there are any for the killers. And you being salty about something doesn't mean the game is dead. You have to play according to the official rules of the game regardless of which side you prefer to play teh most and these silly excuses and rules you try to apply on the other side make no sense. We all play and enjoy the same game. And I know As survivor killers can't force any sort of rule of fairness on me, neither when I play as killer. You use everything the game offers you and use everything you have at your disposal which gives you a situational advantage. We are not some sort of different community or culture if we play survivor or killer. We are the same playerbase.
The devs also constantly adjust and patch things that might be too difficult to deal with, so the gane's functionality is in their hands. Otherwise there are no additional "rules" aside of the official ones. Yes you can "tunnel", "camp", "proxy camp", or not. Your choice, your decision what you use to your advantage.
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I am not demanding killer mains to play nice. I am asking for the developers to take away tactics that are clearly broken and were not intended.
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being able to use a killers power within 16 meters of the hook is certainly intended, especially since some powers
(like twins and artist) are indeed unable to when too close to a hook.
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Yes it is intended. It's not like teh devs don't know it for years. If you have balance issues or ideas, you can forward them in their appropriate sections. But you simply come up with terms like "proxy camping" which isn't something actually real, because you are angry about some tactic or another. Honestly every single thing people do in the game is part of the game. Killers dislike some things they come up with as gen rush. But that's part of survivor privilege. And sure they will also use all their advantages to max. Just like any killer would. So no hard feelings, but it really is part of the game.
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Riiiight. So even more things that SWF can use to abuse these mechanics.
Better solution? Make camping and tunneling IMPOSSIBLE. Not discouraged, or encourage not doing. Just make it flat out IMPOSSIBLE.
The best solution is to balance the game around chases and hooks instead of kills, the following would basically solve everything.
- All survivors now have a shared pool for the 1st hook state
- The 2nd and 3rd hook states are personal.
- Survivors don't go to second stage until all the shared hook states are removed.
- Remove the 4% mechanic
- Rework luck/slippery meat
- Deliverance can stay
- Rebalance the gen speed to chase time ratio, preferably by reducing chase time, not increasing gen time.
But, that is too much work. A better, actual solution to facecamping that doesn't hurt killers normally playing? Just make the damn hook work like PH cage. The survivor teleports to a different hook if the killer is within say, 16 meters for some number of seconds and not in a chase, then remove the whole "hooks permanently breaking" mechanic, so that you can always send them properly to a hook furthest from the killer.
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Seems liked I missed a good time T_T
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But the point i'm making is. Does doing this make the game any more fun for the guy getting hard facecamped and tunneled? It does not, so what is the point of this again? Facecamping is typically a BAD strategy for the killer because against good teams, they just lose. So the point of this is to fix being on the unfun end of it. But this mechanic doesn't actually do that, and just creates another scenario that is complicated, hard to figure out in a game, and abusable by SWF.
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The one thing I would say is that easiest tactics to win as killer against solo queue and at lower MMR (the majority of the playerbase), should not be the ones that are the least fun to play against. The game should discourage the least fun aspects of the game by design. When it's the easiest way to win, it's even worse.
Casual survivors plays matches like this constantly as inexperienced killers almost always rely on these tactics, as they have no clue what they are doing and get easily frustrated. So you have have a large portion of the playerbase stuck playing matches that just suck. Getting out of low MMR as a casual solo queue survivor is absolutely brutal. The real fun as survivor only really starts when you climb the MMR ladder and meet killers who are confident enough in their abilities to relax and have some fun.
Casual survivors being stuck playing in this environment is genuinely bad for the health of the game.
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We honestly just have to wait and see how much unhook gauge fills when proxy camped. And it also depends once again on your teammates if they are too close because that affects the gauge as well, as talked about during the anniversary.
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why they not make chainsaw stop or go in crisis when it hits basekit BT (like billy), anti camp thing is fine it's just a bubba issue with his power
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"Gen rush", "tunneling", "camping", and now even something called "proxy camping". Just play the game guys, instead of coming up with new words for regular gameplay which is completely fine both by game rules and of course by devs.
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If that's the case then why not have the haste be a higher value when you unhook yourself using the mechanic, then?
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Easier to unhook
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Honestly, if you are playing in solo queue, there's not much you can do to stop the killer from bullying someone. The killer has the power to target someone whilst in theory throwing the match. This mechanic will help some players out, which is good. But there's never going to be a way to stop a killer from griefing a single survivor.
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Because its a complicated mechanic that is more than likely going to be exploited by SWF and not actually solve the problem. Now you are just adding layers upon the problem.
The reason camping exists, is because it is possible. This anti-camping mechanic is just going to "punish" camping, which isn't going to do anything, because campers still gonna camp. Better to actually make it not possible.
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If you played much killer, you'd know there is a large difference between proxy camping and facecamping. One allows a reasonable opportunity for a successful unhook while the other does not.
And you can't be a successful killer without at least occasionally proxy camping. You can be a great killer and never facecamp.
Also, trying to punish proxy camping would be nearly impossible without creating massive opportunity for survivors to massively abuse the mechanic. You simply can't compel the killer to leave the entire vicinity of a hooked survivor and expect them to be able to win against any competent survivors.
Bubba is a singular facecamping problem who needs a solution specific to him.
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that's simply one example.
But let me ask you a question. Why does this game need a solution to facecamping. Is it because facecamping is an effective strategy? Because i'd aruge not, facecamping, against a team that knows how to deal with it, is pretty much a loss for the killer. It isn't a "good" strategy most of the time.
So then why fix it? Well, because people still do it. But, we have already proved they don't do it because it is effective, they do it because they can.
So lets look at the "unhook yourself" mechanic. How exactly is that going to solve the problem. Sure, it "punishes" the killer. But, as i said, you unhook yourself, and they wait out the 10 second timer, or just hit you immediately, then chase you down and hard tunnel you out.
Was that really that much more fun than just getting facecamped? I'd argue that people are still gonna rage about it and DC because it isn't going to actually stop the problem. Is it going to let you at least play the game a little? Yeah probably, but you are still gonna get camped and tunneled out without being able to really do anything anyway. So you'll still be just as mad about it. So it doesn't really solve the problem.
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I'm interested to see how people on both sides break the new mechanic on the PTB.
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Which is why there needs to be a special mechanic for leatherface camping hooks. The fact that we still don't have one is ridiculous.
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You are just arguing with people who want to facecamp every game. They will come up with any excuse they can to exploit to win, so why bother wasting time arguing with them? It's unfortunately a fundamental flaw in the design of the game. I doubt BHVR will do any significant change to stop it and promote better gameplay loops. They only like making small tweaks here and there usually. Best bet is just to play a different game.
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Thats why chase exists
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"I'm not demanding killer mains to play nice"
Also op: I should be able to unhook while killer is applying pressure around the hook and the killer should let me
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"I want to face camp until they die on hook, this is the gameplay that the game should be for everyone because I don't actually care about the game's health or longevity, just winning easily"
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If you played much killer, you'd know there is a large difference between proxy camping and facecamping.
I am pretty sure only difference is distance around hook. both forms of camping have same objective which is prevent unhook/intercept the unhook. either way, they're only nerfing camping 16 meters near hook. you will still be able to camp. Just not as easily.
On bright side, you got off the hook.
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The mechanic is supposed to be effective against face camping, not camping as a whole. You can't delete camping completely in any form. Only disincentivise it. Proxy camping is what keeps most of the weaker killers in the ring. This is a situation, the survivors have to handle well in a group. If handled incorrectly the killer can snowball.
We don't want to make it survivors too easy do we?
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Camping was intended when the game was designed. It's also not broken in any way or form. The only exception are basement/lockdown Trapper, basement hag and a bubba with a tent ready at hand. If you truly think that camping is the "solve all" solution for all the killers problems, I really want you to play killer and try it yourself. If you as the survivor are on the hook until you die, it's not the fault of the game and not of the killer. It's the fault of the team that they didn't handle the situation well enough.
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That's bait my friend but I'll bite.
First : true facecamping doesn't exist. YOU CAN UNHOOK THE SURVIVOR. Facecamping made it impossible to unhook the survivor.
Second : camping is sometimes the necessary evil against survivors that become too efficient for the killer to handle.
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it's so efficient to camp that 90% of every game I'm in the killer camps and soloq has a much harder time dealing with it. just admit you enjoy the camping life and quit pretending to be objective.
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Do you just want survivors to have 3 lives and remove hooks altogether?
That sounds incredibly boring and you are taking a huge part of the game, but the way some people whine they just want less interactions.
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I dislike you gaslighting me. Please stop. Do I camp when I play killer? Yes, sometimes I do. Why do I do it?
Because survivors force me into situations, where I can barely do anything else. That is mostly one thing: my first down got delayed so long that 3 gens pop. (I main pig).
Normally I dislike camping, because it's boring and I play the game to enjoy m1 killer chases. Mindgames are what makes this game fun for me.
Camping is not as efficient as you claim it to be. Try a round of bubba and camp the first guy you hook without heavy slowdown like corrupt or deadlock and tell me how often you get your easy 4k. Most of the time survivors are smart enough to just slam out gens and leave. Yes one survivor will die for the team but that's how it is.
I at least hope that survivors are smart enough.
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it's very easy to get 3-4k with facecamp bubba even content creators like otz have shown it, run a combination of corrupt-deadlock-pain res-merciless storm- no way out-noed and you'll get 2k minimum if you have half a brain, against solo Q most likely 3-4k
it's by far the worst thing in this game it should be nerfed to oblivion, even tunneling is super fun compared to dying on first hook to a bubba, it will be nerfed end of story, trying to defend it is actually dumb
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