Is escape through hatch fair?
Answers
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when you start to complain about one single survivor escaping by luck in a hatch, it's because 4k is so important to you that you, for sure, sweat your way around every game making it the most unfun experience for everyone else in that match. If a single survivor escaping bothers you enough to make you create a topic like this, it's because you HAVE to win to have fun. One of the biggest problems in any online game.
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I mean, the Killer still won when one Survivor escaped the Match. Nobody would say they lost when the only escape is a Hatch-Escape with Gens left.
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EXACTLY!
Unfortunately, some killers (probably like the one who made this thread) think they have to 4K to feel like they won. They get really frustrated when a survivor gets hatch. I'll never get the mindset...
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I don't really see it as a "free" escape. The killer has the speed advantage, so you have to be very lucky with the hatch spawn and skillful enough to evade the killer in order to make a successful escape. The chances of escaping are still very low.
Besides, it's a fun consolation prize to play on for. If a survivor is dead at 5-3 gens, the game is essentially over and the rest of the team are just playing for BP, safety pips and hatch at that point. DBD isn't chess. It doesn't give you the option to resign an obviously lost game. So without the possibility for a hatch escape, there wouldn't be all that much point in continuing for a lot of players.
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The hatch gives hope to survivors who have bad matches (often due to solo queue matchmaking) and doesn't remove a win from the killer. It might be the healthiest mechanic in the game.
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Not half of the replies completely overlooking the actual point of your post…current game playing(not two years ago), it being a slot the killers would also have to sacrifice for being a perk or add on(everyone complained about boons and a perk was made and no one ever uses it), op isn’t saying “give me a 4k because I already got a 3k” and it’s ignorant to assume that is the only possible thought process from the discussion. The discussion was should there be an option(notice the word option) for the killers to CHOOSE to use in place of something else to be able to close hatch permanently/temporarily locked for x time.
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last time i checked, it’s not 2019 anymore
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Its a pity, what makes it unfair?
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"free" as in you get it without needing to do anything. It's spawned in for you just because you lost. Yes you haver to actually find the hatch, but the process of it spawning is just "whoops, the killer won, here you can skip your objective". Then if the killer wins the hatch game you get a "whoops the killer won again, here's the gates powered for you as well". Finding hatch is also just luck 9/10 times, it's not like you have to outplay the killer or anything. You just run and hope you find it first.
I don't disagree with the second portion, as I said I just believe in fairness. For fairness the killer should also have a "whoops, the survivors won" mechanic as well for a 1K, or neither should have it.
The main question was is hatch fair or not, and hatch as is is not fair to the killer side as implemented from a mechanic standpoint imo. To even it out you should give killers an equivalent 1K chance mechanic if you don't want to remove hatch. I'm fine with either.
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Tbh it's easier for killers to find. Pov doesn't really matter, I usually hear the hatch before I see it, killers can move faster and not worry about being caught en route. And tbh I would like to see survivors have an easier time getting hatch. Left behind and clairvoyance are perfectly fine.
A hatch escape is still a killer win, they've got 3 out of 4 survs. Not finishing gens should not be a death sentence for all survs in that round. People would be much quicker to DC/ragequit if that were the case. Just some killers get mad whenever they don't get a 4k.
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Killers have plenty of ways to force a kill in the endgame if they've done bad. Namely: NOED, rancor, face camping, bloodwarden, NWO. As killer I find losing 1 surv to a hatch escape much less annoying than getting insta downed and facecamped to death by a NOED enjoyer.
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"Like I said before, if you don't want to remove it for survivors just give an equivalent for killers. It's not about being against hatch, it's about being against unfairness."
They already did. It's why anti-camp/anti-tunnel is disabled in end-game.
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Dont forget the event currency
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And which of those are basekit mechanics in every match that stop the last survivor from leaving when the 3rd escapes with no input from the killer to let them attempt a 1K? None.
For example a basekit Bloodwarden that activates for the last survivor once the other 3 escape would be comparable. But we don't have that.
3 survivors die? Here's hatch, here's powered gates if you lose hatch game as well.
3 survivors escape? Killer gets nothing.
It's annoying to lose a survivor to hatch. But on the survivor side the killer literally doesn't have a comparable system for you to be annoyed at to begin with.
Post edited by MrPenguin on0 -
IIRC basekit BT is still active during endgame.
But more importantly turning off some specific perks is nowhere near the same as "the killer won here's a 2nd and 3rd chance that skips your objective" as a basekit mechanic that happens every match one side loses.
An equivalent would be something like locking the 4th survivor in and forcing them to escape through other means or needing to find something to get out.
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But more importantly turning of some specific perks is nowhere near the same as "the killer won here's a 2nd and 3rd chance that skips your objective" as a basekit mechanic.
That's probably because, for the killer, this is active during the entire game. You don't have to hook a survivor a second or third time when you can just camp them out.
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And as a survivor the entire game you can rush gens and get at least one person out the same way you can camp and get at least 1K.
But hatch still exist regardless of that fact. So that's still unfair to the killer side.
Like I understand boo hoo camp and tunnel blah blah but that's not really relevant unless the game spawns the 4th survivor on hook and teleports the killer to them as soon as 2 escape. Not that I would want that specifically, that sounds like a bad time. But hatch isn't exactly "fun" for the killer either.
Essentially it's "oh 3 survivors died? You failed your objective? Ok its fine, you can escape anyway. Here's hatch and here's the gates just in case you lose that too".
What does the killer get when 3 survivors escape? Nothing.
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Cry about it. A 4E still requires all objectives done. Just because you got a 3K doesn't mean you are freely entitled to the fourth.
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A 4K also requires the entire rest of the killer objective done as well. You need a 3K to get a 4K obviously.
The killers objective is kills. Killer gets their objective done, survivors get 2 get out of jail cards.
The survivors objective is done? Killer gets nothing.
It's by definition unfair, you would need to have some survivor blinders on to say otherwise. That was the question askes by OP, I answered.
Cry about it? Pointless immature comment. Are you upset? Are you just an anti-killer survivor main? Maybe just being petty over not having an actual valid argument? Regardless of your reason(s), your ad hominems are unneeded and unproductive.
Post edited by MrPenguin on1 -
It's by definition unfair
It's only unfair when you refuse to consider the actual game itself. It's an asymmetrical, bud. Again, getting three kills does not mean you get to have the fourth for free.
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Being asymmetrical is part of what makes it unfair bud. Were it not, both sides would have access to and benefit from it. If you refuse to consider the game, then you can pretend it's fair.
Nowhere did I say getting the 3rd kill should make the 4th free. The last survivor can get away if the gens are done, hatch existing or not doesn't change that. You just have to actually earn the chance to escape.
However the killer doesn't get 2 last ditch base game systems to secure at least 1K if they lost the same way survivor does for a 1E.
If we're considering these mechanics as "free", getting the 3rd escape shouldn't give the killer a free kill, then getting the 3rd kill shouldn't give the survivors a free escape.
Again, if you don't want to remove hatch then give the killer a comparable system that kicks in at 3 Escapes. I don't really care which one.
Either both get an equivalent or both don't. Wanting one to have it but not the other is just entitled double standards. In this case it would be survivor entitlement/bias since they are the ones benefiting.
Post edited by MrPenguin on0 -
Would you agree with putting in a system to allow the killer a chance to get a kill by luck if 3 survivors escape?
A single survivor getting sacrificed also shouldn't bother anyone.
It's only fair the killer gets a similar mechanic.
Post edited by MrPenguin on0 -
Hum... That's already in the game? It's called... closing the hatch?
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In what situation are you closing the hatch after 3 people escape? Even so it wouldn't do anything since the gates are open. That's not the same at all.
I'm talking survivors do all gens, 3 get out, entity blockers stop the last from leaving to give the killer a chance at a 1K. They need to escape through hatch or find a switch or w.e.
Something that rewards the killer since they lost with an extra 1K chance the same way hatch rewards the survivor since they lost with a 2nd and 3rd chance for a 1E.
Survivors lose: hatch + gates powered if hatch gets closed.
Killer loses: nothing
Post edited by MrPenguin on1 -
Never had any trouble closing the hatch in the majority of my Killer games, personally. More often than not I go looking for the hatch to power the gates just so I'm not bored silly waiting for the last survivor to find it. If I find the hatch first, it's practically a guaranteed kill. Very few survivors run Left Behind or Sole Survivor and if they do, that's good news for you anyway, because they're probably not going to be team players and they won't be on gens or doing heals / saves.
I honestly don't see what the problem is. Besides, there's loads of unfair and unfun stuff in this game that's way, way worse than the hatch. I'd prefer to see BHVR work on a real solution to Killers tunnelling off hook, for example.
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There's already plenty of luck in the game. Survivors run to dead zones all the time cause they don't know. There's your luck. That doesn't seem fair to me either but it happens and there's no skill involved. Equipping NOED and getting downs if you did bad all game is also based on luck somewhat (good hex spawn). Isn't it unfair for survivors who worked to get all the gens done and not lose any of their teammates, they must have played really well up until NOED triggered but you can still come out of such a game a winner.
I have never seen a killer say how unfair that must feel for survivors and how they got robbed. Instead they say "the game doesn't end when all gens are done".
It also feels really unfair when the killer is slugging for the 4k and he's not even good enough to find you within the next minute, but you have to wait out the 4min duration or go save and there's hardly any comeback from that, but hey it's still in the game and I'm kinda surprised no one told you that this is the way to bypass hatch. Or are you gonna tell me you're too noble to slug for the 4k suddenly? Or maybe that Unbreakable can still happen lol? I mean if it's risk you gotta take and Unbreakable won't win them the game anyway, you can still down them. There's already a basekit solution to hatch, any killer can slug.
You also have Devour Hope which most people agree on is high risk high reward so there's your luck based thing that actually allows you to outright kill survivors or insta down them just by playing the game as you would normally.
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They should bring old hatch back; However, add a twist.
1.) A Hatch spawns somewhere when survivors are “losing”, but the hatch only allows the one that opened it to escape. The hatch immediately closes behind the person using the key, and then the hatch vanishes. After so many minutes a new hatch will spawn somewhere else. So unless those survivors have additional keys they cannot escape this way anymore. Killer can find where the hatch spawned again. When one survivor remains any closed hatch on the map will open up. If a hatch has not spawned yet a hatch will spawn that’s wide open.
2.) Buff Left Behind. If a survivor exists through the hatch it counts as an escape through EG.
That way you can rank up through hatch escapes too. I hate that solo survivors can’t escape because their team sucked. Hatch was more of a solo thing. You’d bring a key in case everyone fails. Then escape anyway. Even with my solo build unless I open the door it won’t count. So what’s the point?
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Cool strawmans but none of that is relevant to nor changes what I said.
Sure dead zones exist, but loop chains and god structures also exist (and are far more common). Both sides have their equivalent, but those aren't relevant.
Perks are not the same as base kit mechanics. Also not relevant.
I don't slug for the 4K, but that's also not relevant regardless. It's not even about being "too noble" (whatever that means), I just don't have fun doing that.
Post edited by MrPenguin on1 -
That's like the guys complaining "why can't I win as Killer when I play weakest killers, with niche perks and in the nicest way possible (no camping, tunneling, slugging)" so it's pretty relevant. Can games be won in playing nice? Yeah, sure. But you'd have to be pretty good as killer and probably above the survivors skill level. It's why people hate playing against co-ordinated survivors, cause that adds a layer of difficulty for killers who are used to playing vs uncoordinated solos and have strategies that work only vs them but fail vs survivors who can communicate.
But see? I was able just fine to guess you are one of those "I don't slug for the 4k" guys without you even saying anything in the first place. Your solution is right there, if you would rather not take advantage of that cause "omg boring" then it's on you, not the game.
That's like me crying the killer 3-genned when we did all the wrong gens and someone tell me "you can actually start by doing these gens to avoid a 3-gen situation" and me going "that's too scary/risky/boring, I rather do the ones in the edges first". Lol ok, I guess it's the games fault then for my inability to adopt a different strategy.
Playing optimally is inherently boring. Ask all the people who would rather bring flashlights and do flashy saves than do gens. You should already know by now which is the superior playstyle, but also the more safe and boring one.
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How is any of that relevant to 0 score prevention mechanics not existing for both sides? I don't care about he last survivor getting away or not. Its the fact that the killer doesn't have a hatch equivalent. Something base kit that kicks in at 3 escapes to give extra chances for at least a 1K like survivor has for a 1E. Thus its unequal.
Slugging for the 4K is not even really a bypass. There's nothing stopping the last survivor from waiting it out in a random corner, tile, room, or locker. Realistically if they want hatch to spawn it will spawn.
People have suggested a rushed bleedout option if you're slugged. I agree with that proposal. Because I agree waiting 4 minuets just to play out the match is a lot.
All I "see" is your strawman and ad hominem arguments.
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Uhh you do realize that killer gets stronger the longer matches last right? It's because resources get depleted. If you wanna make that point then please get a hatch equivalent so I can get a come back equivalent for survivors. As it currently is if 2 survivors are dead you can never turn it into a win, gives us the option to resurrect survivors so we can turn around a tie or loss to a win, just the same way a killer with 0-1 kill when gens are done can still end up with a 3k+ lol.
I'm sure many people would give you that trade. I would not care if you got a random mori for the last person in the game when you have not managed to sacrifice anyone. Just want come back potential for survivors since we're giving both sides equal chances.
Post edited by JustAnotherNewbie on2 -
If we're considering these mechanics as "free", getting the 3rd escape shouldn't give the killer a free kill, then getting the 3rd kill shouldn't give the survivors a free escape
Good thing it doesn't, then.
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Then why'd you even bring up[ anything being free to begin with?
If hatch isn't a free escape then an equal for killer would also not be free. In the model given it would also not be free as it followed the same formula.
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I'm the one advocating for a hatch equivalent, no one said anything about a comeback mechanic. Neither side has that.
I have given hatch equivalents that kick in at a 3E, at that point the killer also can't turn the game into a win. The killer also cant turn a 2E into a win either.
Gens getting done is not the same as a kill or escape. The win condition is not gens, it's not hooks, it's kills and escapes. Hatch spawn condition is not gens, it's kills. The equivalent would be based on escapes.
The killer can get a 3k after gens, because the games not over yet and the kills/escapes are not locked in.
I'm not asking for that trade, you're just making up points and then throwing them onto other people as if they said it.
You do realize survivors are strongest at the beginning of the match right? That doesn't stop hatch from spawning at 5 gens. Why should it stop killers from getting something at the end?
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Hatch doesn't spawn when survivors at their strongest, last I checked this isn't old hatch. It spawns when there's 1 left and you could say regardless if they're winning or not.
You are advocating for something like the hatch to be given to killer cause you feel hatch is unfair. And I made the point that survivors not having comeback potential also feels unfair to me as a survivor. Why should the killer be able to turn a 0k into a 3k+ but survivors can't turn a 0E into a 3E? Lots of multiplayer games only temporarily remove their players and let them play again until the game is over.
But you'll tell me it's an asymmetric game so the two sides cannot be compared which is basically what everyone who claims hatch isn't a problem seems to be claiming. Killing to people at 5-4 gens makes the game unwinnable for survivors, but killers getting to end game with 0-1k doesn't mean they have to accept defeat cause they have a chance to turn it around.
The game already offers you a basekit counter to hatch, if you rather not take it, it's on you really. Not much else to say. You can't go expecting to play the game the same way when you started. Metas change, you get better, your opponents get better as well. Can't just turn off your brain and play like a bonobo cause it used to work in 2020 or something.
If you find slugging for the 4k too boring just don't? Many people don't and they probably still get to the hatch first at least 50% of the time (and this number might even be low).
Are you gonna start complaining for the 4% now that denies you an end game kill in 1 game out of 500?
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The two sides can and should be compared, being asym doesn't change that it just makes it more complicated and not always straight forward.
The killer is not turning a 0K into a 3K, there are no kills/escapes yet and the game isn't over. Once a kill is done that's it its locked in the same way once a survivor escapes that it its locked in.
A comeback mechanic does not exist for either side. Just because its endgame doesn't mean the survivors won. They won once 3 people escape.
That would mean after the survivors escape they get dragged back in so the killer can kill them, that doesn't happen.
Gens done does not mean the survivors won the same way just because the killer got 8 hooks but 0 kills does not mean they won. 3E is a win, 3K is a win. Once those points are in that's it. Neither side can "make-up" for lost points.
That'd be like the killer saying "I had 8 hooks, the survivors turned a 0E into a 4E because they escaped at endgame". That's ridiculous.
I already addressed the "bypass" point and you haven't disproven what I said so I'm not restating it. Go reread it if you want.
"If you find slugging for the 4k too boring just don't?"
I already said I do that. Why are you bringing this back up?
"Are you gonna start complaining for the 4% now that denies you an end game kill in 1 game out of 500?"
Why are you bringing this up? Stop making up irrelevant points from thin air. You're bringing up a lot of whataboutism.
Post edited by MrPenguin on0 -
But it would be very heavily slanted in favour of the killer, so it'd be back to unfair again.
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In what way?
Current hatch can only ever give a 1E where it otherwise would not have happened. It only ever benefits the survivor.
Making it equal and also have a chance to give the killer a 1K would even it out no? At the very least it would be a lot more fair than it just not benefitting one side at all.
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I don't see it unfair.
First, It looks to me another balanced option for when there is only 1 survivor that has to open the gates, the gates opening when there are several survivors is easy, but when is one alone, it get harder and sometimes even impossible. I refer to all those times when these gates appears too close each other, so Killers can place in positions where he can monitor both gates. So providing the hatch tend to give that extra support (escaping by it, using a key, or using the distraction of the killer looking for it to open a gate).
Also, 3k or 4k doesn't really matters, I tend to play for points so having 30.000 I think it is good wether the last survivor escaped or not. (In those escenarios they neither get too cocky so whatever, if they found hatch, good for them).
The times I slug, tends to be when I see the missing survivor has been lazy (has left people die or has beeing hiding in the map zone far from the generators). I tend to be merciless with these kind of players. But also in these matches I use to spared the life of the "slugged" survivor with hatch or gate (for having to deal with those selfish survivors).
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You're the one who has taken an issue with a mechanic that is extremely chance based (unless either party brings an offering and then you know the exact spot and can act accordingly) that most of the time benefits the killer anyway. If it didn't bother you, you would not be here making a post. If you find slugging boring then don't complain? You literally don't have to equip anything to counter it. Do you also refuse to camp/tunnel or 3-gen when survivors don't go down like flies? Your refusal to use the strategy that counters hatch has no weight to it as much as you want it to have.
4% chance to unhook yourself is really relevant because it's a random mechanic that still exists in the game and probably feels even worse to play against than hatch (you cannot do anything to deny 4% chance sometimes) and that can also very well deny you that coveted 1k. And there have been posts with killers complaining even for that and asking an equivalent mechanic for killer like you are for hatch. (I can find you the thread if you don't believe me).
The thing is the game is pretty much over at 2k for survivors but it somehow isn't over at completed gens. You can get your kills before survivors get to the end game, survivors cannot escape before they get to the end game though. It used to be that survivors could also go through the hatch with a key, but not longer. So indirectly yes, survivors doing 5 gens is intristically tied to their escape. You cannot escape if you don't finish 5 gens, but you can 4k at any point in game as killer. That's the difference. If you played badly you can still COMEBACK, exactly because the game is not done for survivors despite their escape being tied up to their 5 gens (which is their win condition). You're just arguing on a technicality really because the game doesn't end instantly when they complete them, but that's exactly why killers have comeback potential and survivors don't.
Killers also didn't always have to hook survivors, old moris existed and they could well by-pass the hook mechanic. If the mori/infinite unbreakable were to be implented tomorrow (I mean it won't) then you would not even be able to make a comparison between hooks and gens because technically the killer's win could also very well be tied to downing survivors and never hooking them. And you never know how this game will evolve in the future.
Killers can skip hook stages (you can just hook the person who has 3 hook states last and deny them their resource therefore winning the game at around 9 hooks instead of 12), survivors can't skip gens (maybe you could make an argument for old toolboxes but those don't exist anymore). Sadako doesn't even need to hook and some Nurses can also get away with slugging, but survivors still can't skip gens.
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I stopped at "most of the time benefits the killer". There is absolutely no scenario where hatch would be better for the killer than it not existing. It literally only ever gives an escape where there would otherwise be none. The killer never benefits.
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Making it equal and also have a chance to give the killer a 1K would even it out no? At the very least it would be a lot more fair than it just not benefitting one side at all.Earlier in the thread you say:
It's only purpose is to give the survivor a chance to get out for essentially free, just because the killer won before they could, because otherwise they would potentially hold the game hostage by hiding forever.So I think everyone agrees on why hatch exists. If it didn't, survivors might just hide for extended periods of time and no one wants that.
What game element requires the killer to have something like that? How in the world would such a design make the game more fun? Hatch exists because the game is practically over and we need to speed up the ending. Any element on the killer side would simply slow the game down when the core of the game is already done.
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I stopped at "most of the time benefits the killer".I don't know if there is a phrase that makes it sound more like you are losing an argument then starting off a response by admitting you didn't read a post.
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Losing the argument? They either made up points and pretended I said them, straw manned, whataboutismed, ad hominemed, completely ignored points they cant counter, or didn't even understand the game. I didn't continue reading because that line made it extra clear that I was wasting my time with someone either heavily biased or just clueless but doesn't see it.
Not wanting to waste more of my time shouldn't be something wild. They probably think the same things I'm saying about me tbf, so in the long run it'd be saving both of our time.
If they say something reasonable as a response I'll go back and read the rest. But given how they've been reacting thus far I doubt it.
Post edited by MrPenguin on0 -
Ok so like I keep saying and like I've been saying since the beginning, give the killer an equivalent or replace it. Doesn't have to be removed and that's it.
Explaining why something exist that is unfair, does not change the fact that it is. If you want to keep it around, the other option is to bring the other side up.
Alternatively just replace hatch with something like aura reading on the survivor to speed it up the death process then. If your only concern is speeding it up as that would remove the "robbery" or undeserved RNG escape aspect, or w.e. you want to call it. You don't need to hand out a get out of jail card. Start the EGC for good measure.
Then both sides only have 1 chance to get their objective done. They lost and that's that.
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Uhh...maybe you will get it this time, but you can actually by pass hatch spawn with one simple trick. If you care that much about hatch you should do whatever you can to deny it. You can't say one thing and do another. If you could do nothing about it maybe your argument would hold more weight, but as it is right now you're just closing your eyes and ears and going "lalalala" to counterplay. Not very convincing really.
Imagine your problem being something you have control over and don't even need to bring specific perks lmao.
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I thought you didn't like guaranteed escapes, why do you like guaranteed kills then? (or what should be according to you a kill)
Not finding a survivor for 4 mins happens how often? If it happens as often as a survivor 4% unhook that escapes that you have no problem with then, it's not a real problem either.
Also your problem was hatch being a consolation prize for survivor and killers not having any. When you have to slug for the 4k it means you've already won, therefore you don't need a consolation prize in that scenario.
So which bothers you really? The fact you didn't get your "guaranteed 4k" or the fact you didn't get your "guaranteed 1k", neither of which you deserve because according to your own arguments survivors don't deserve "free escapes" either. Why does a killer deserve a free kill again?
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Then don't give it to either.
It's not guaranteed K or E, I don't believe anyone ever said it was. It's a 2nd and 3rd chance at avoiding the worst score (0k and E respectively). I've said that multiple times now.
If one side has a 2nd and 3rd chance so should the other. Right now one side has it but the other doesn't.
My main point was that its unequal/unfair. Like I keep saying. Also like I keep saying, you can go either direction to make it equal. I don't specifically want one over the other.
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Removing hatch though swings the game to the killer's favor and survivors might get compensatory buffs to keep the killrates at their deserved numbers.
Killers already become stronger the less resources are in the map (broken pallets and used up hook states, used up items) without having to equip any perks. Obviously a killer who has created dead zones can already probably get his 1k on survivors , unless we're talking about survivors running MfT + Hope which I don't think it's the case, so we're not referring to that scenario.
Like to claim survivors get more 1e than killers get 1k is not honest because we'd have to look at statistics and if it came out that they both happen at the same rate then you would not be able to claim hatch is unfair because it would not be offering any more advantage to survivors in that case. You really have to ask BHVR to release statistics how commonly hatch escapes happen on killer's crushing victory and the other way around and see their relation. Because if they both happened at the same rate then hatch is not really as much of an advantage as you claim and it would be the only thing that balances killrates a bit. And last time they got released all killers were averaging over 2 point something kills for all levels I believe.
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Devs already said hatch doesn't count as a kill or escape so it shouldn't be affecting the kill rate or escape rate currently. The % shouldn't change since it didn't count to begin with. For sake of argument lets say it's removed and somehow that changes things so survivor is underperforming. Then they should get buffed. Why is that an issue?
If the killer gets a 1K then the system can't kick in. What's the problem exactly? Technically hatch can spawn after someone escapes, but at that point it doesn't matter so it not worth considering imo. Effectively it's the same. Once a 1K or 1E happens the system doesn't matter. So that also shouldn't be an issue.
"unless we're talking about survivors running MfT + Hope which I don't think it's the case, so we're not referring to that scenario."
You mean the most common build running around right now? Honestly kind of biased imo to consider all these scenarios for killer but when its the most common survivor build its "we're not referring to it".
However in the end its not relevant as far as I can tell and doesn't matter, so I won't needlessly continue on that point.
"Like to claim survivors get more 1e than killers get 1k is not honest"
Never made that claim.
Again, hatch doesn't effect the statistics at all. Even if it did/does, that doesn't change anything. The frequency one side does or doesn't get a 1K or 1E to activate doesn't matter. That doesn't change that fundamentally one side having a basekit extra chance mechanic while the other doesn't is unequal.
I'm considering Hatch as an advantage because it can only ever benefit the survivors with an extra escape and the killer has no base kit equal or comparable that adds an extra mechanic due to 3 escapes happening to even it out. Unless that's changed it will remain true. So unless you can say something that changes that, it will remain unfair.
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