Ultimate Weapon + Movement Killers
This perk is an huge problem and needs some kind of nerf. Killers like blight and nurse who are already strong become unbeatable when they have UW on. They can traverse the map so quickly plus a overwhelming pressure and you will never have a place to hide or be stealthy. 3 games, 3 5 gens. The timing needs a nerf drastically. Like cut in half
Comments
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We should not be making balance decisions on perks because of nurse and blight. They are their own problem and shouldn't cause perks to get nerfed. The base killer needs changes.
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It does need a nerf but it’s not because of Nurse and Blight, it just lasts way too long in general and unless survivors use Calm Spirit it is better than every other tracking perk.
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Yet BHVR has time and time again nerfed perks or other killers instead of touching Nurse and Blight, for some reason they're allergic to changing anything about them.
The perk should have a longer cooldown, 30s is a joke for high-mobility killers.
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Killers lose out on blood lost with the perk on so it has a downside. Then there's MFT with no downside to it.
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Have you all seen D3ad Plays new video on YouTube about clown and this perk? Lol Jesus it's insane
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You're thinking of the wrong perk
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First of all wrong perk, thats Rapid Brutality you're referring to. Second, MFT does have a downside to it being you can't really run Exhaustion perks with it
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You can easily run dead hard and adrenaline with it
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So you can run a bad perk and a perk that requires you to be in a winning position.
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I mean… I think it’s reaching to say DH is a bad perk. I still get a TON of value from it, as do a lot of players.
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- No screaming when inside a locker
- Nerf activation time
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Why run DH with Made For This when you are most likely going to get more value out of Resilience with DH since both can be up at the same time, serve the same purpose, and Resilience gives you a little bonus even outside of chase
Dead Hard has also fallen off immensely compared to what it used to be, and doesnt even compete with Sprint Burst anymore which is now the obvious choice for best Exhaustion perk
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Never said it was optimal or even good.
Just pointing out that there are exhaustion perks that you can run with mft while having them both fully function.
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Perks that depend on the opponents ping are almost never good.
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MFT is mathematically better than every Exhaustion perk and it isn't close.
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People complaining about tracking perks now? Might as well delete all Killer perks.
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It certainly doesn't help that this perk will force survivors to scream even when they themselves are hiding in a locker.
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You can use math all you want. It'll never represent what actually goes on in a match as chases aren't just straight lines.
Its like saying Huntress is the best killer in the game because she can down a Survivor faster than any other killer in the game because distance doesnt matter, and I think we can all agree that's not the case
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How is it bad, like I genuinly dont get it, you have made for this and in the case the killer somehow wins a mindgame or you misjudge a distance you can just DH and continue looping(even better if you have resilience), which even if you ultimately go down you should have wasted enough time to at the very least get 1 and a half gen done.
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Its not necessarily bad, but there's much better combos out there and its far from OP as many people claim
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So then how is not being able to use Exhaustion perks with Made For This a downside if the best perk to pair with it is not an Exhaustion perk?
Old Dead Hard couldn’t pair with Exhaustion perks either but no one called that a downside.
Maybe this is just my experience, but Sprint Burst is the Exhaustion perk that has fallen off. Made For This is everywhere so no one bothers to run it anymore. Dead Hard is still more common in my games than Sprint Burst.
Sprint Burst is great, but Made For This is still the best Exhaustion perk.
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I think the aura should stop when killer is 12m close to survivors. So with Trapper requires 5sec to get close, he will get 5sec of aura. With Blight requires 2sec to get that close, he gets 2sec of aura.
I really think all aura perks should go like that. The closing distance of 12m can be changed for balance.
Same to No where to hide isnt op, just Blight and Nurse can put a hit on survivors before the timer runs out, while Trapper cant make it in time.
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Ultimate Weapon doesn't show auras though.
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Then why was DH still the most complained about perk for ages? Even after DH for distance was removed.
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🙄😂
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Because it wasn't locked behind multiple conditions and it wasn't a one and done perk
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While ultimate weapon is overtuned on blight, it is absolutely not. in fact theres an argument to be made that using it on her is the least optimal option on most maps. Nurse's map mobility is generally the worst in the game. Unless you are on a multi floored or indoor map, her map traversal with blinks is an effective 4.1m/s, unless shes using campbells last breath which I believe puts it closer to blights speed. She covers short distances incredibly quickly but charge time+post blink wndow+fatigue+cooldown evens it out over time to less than regular walking speed on other killers.
The fastest way to travel as nurse is do to one full blink, then wait for it to recharge instead of immediately using the second and looping this. I'll refer to this as a cycle, beginning when the first blink starts charging and ending when the cooldown refills.
it takes 2 seconds to charge a full blink, moving at 2.89/m/s for the duration, covering 5.78 meters.
Nurse moves at 13.333m/s in blink, a rough 1.5s for the full blink covering 20m.
Waiting out the chain blink window takes 1.5 seconds, moving at 1.54m/s, covering 2.31 meters.
Fatigue lasts 2 seconds, moving at 0.96m/s and covering 1.92 meters.
Finally, nurse walks at 3.85m/s for 1 second as she waits for her blink to recharge.
If I take the distance covered divided by the time, we'll get her effective speed for map mobility on your average map.
d = 5.78+20+2.31+1.92+3.85 = 33.86
t = 2+1.5+1.5+2+1 = 8
In one cycle, nurse covers about 33.86m of ground in 8 seconds. 33.86/8=4.2325. When it comes to covering long distances, nurse is effectively moving at 4.2m/s, the single worst map mobility in the game. M1 killers cover ground better than she does. Her only real map mobility advantage is going through walls, which on outdoor maps saves you a few seconds at best and nothing at worst. Granted her moblity on indoor an two floored maps is the best in the game hands down, but her chase is so terrible on every single inddor map except midwich that it evens out, and midwich needs changes to begin with.
All that said, nurse is not a high mobility killer. Shes a chase mobility killer, and because her chase is the best in the game she has the worst map traversal on most maps. ultimate weapon isnt really problematic on her anyways, since its a scream and not an aura. its not exact so theres guesswork involved and you get two warnings that shes coming for you; the scream and then the blink confirming it. Plus since its TR based, the vast majority of procs will be out of her blink range by a long shot. The perk doesnt her any more than it helps m1 killers with bad map mobility.
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a well articulated rebuttal, truly. guess equipping a perk and automatically getting 20% longer chases plus endurance on res is somehow not better than the safety net of SB that doesnt actually do anything in chase without actively losing distance to refill it? makes sense to me. You could maybe argue SB is better than MFT if it didnt have the endurance, but even then its still iffy.
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Adding a 3rd health stage on the first chase is powerful, consider extra 10sec of the first chase is 30sec of Gen when other 3 dont have to go for unhook/healing.
3rd health stage on the first chase remove the ability to lung.
No DH in the first chase means you deal with 4 less DH hit in a match (if all survivors use DH)
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The fact that you scream even from inside a locker is a complete joke
This perk needs a huge cooldown
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Its common knowledge at this point that an Exhaustion perk is a one that has a requirement, gives you a short burst of speed, then makes you Exhausted. Now before we begin, MfT and Dead Hard are not bad perks by any means. How ever to say they are/were the best perks is far from the truth imo.
First lets talk about DH. (quick disclaimer, I'm going to refer to the "DH for Distance" as OG DH, and "Endurance DH" as Old DH) Whether we talk about either version they both had the same issue, being only really useful when a Survivor is already at their strongest at base-kit being in a chase but absolutely useless outside of it. OG DH is the only real contender here to being better than Sprint Burst since it was a bit more versatile. Not only could it be used for distance, but it also had i-frames meaning it could counter a few Killer powers, not just M1's. It allowed you to play A LOT more greedy by going around a loop one more time, if the Killer respected the pallet, you could maybe even go for another loop. If the killer didn't, continue around the loop and DH towards the pallet for distance.
Old DH was/still is more risky than its predecessor, but has a better reward. You couldn't go for these risky plays anymore how ever it was able to buy you A LOT more time. How ever it still has the issue of being completely useless if you're caught in an area with nothing at your disposal. All the Killer has to do is simply wait for the Survivor to make the first move and the Killer can react accordingly. That being said this can only really be done if the Killer is aware that DH is in play, which should be the case if you haven't seen any of the other Exhaustion perks in play yet from that Survivor.
(Another quick disclaimer, I'm only going to be referring to the 3% speed boost. The Endurance effect it provides has no reason to be there, and could be an entire perk on its own) Made for This is probably the worst out of the bunch viability wise since you only get value out of it if the killer makes a mistake, being committing to a chase for WAY too long. Large majority of the time after getting a hit you should be leaving that Survivor to pressure the other Survivors to get them off gens to drain out their resources faster to make snowballing much easier as the game goes on. That being said a 3% speed boost while injured isn't going to do anything if the killer decides to leave you after getting a hit. It also has the exact same issue as DH being if you're caught with your pants down, it does absolutely nothing. Now, is MfT the difference between being able to reach a pallet or window in some cases? Yes, how ever its like saying having 1 or 2 stacks of STBFL is the reason why you were able to catch a Survivor before they reached anything. Does it happen? Yes. Does it happen often? Its so negligible that it shouldn't even be taken into consideration.
Now onto Sprint Burst. The reason why it is still the king of Exhaustion (and you could probably make a case of it just being the king of all Survivor perks in general) is because of just how versatile it is. Its main purpose being to start a chase you had no business starting. Being able to stay in an area with nothing around to then reach a safe area is nothing to scoff at. How ever it can also be used to greed pallets to an even bigger extent than OG DH by 99ing it. The best part? The killer has no tell which way you're using it. Just like both versions of DH, you could be neck deep in a chase and all of a sudden the Survivor just Sprint Bursts away for distance. Next time they see you? You Sprint Burst away towards main building/a set up of several good loops with strong pallets when you were initially in an area with absolutely nothing. That being said it is the harder perk to use to get maximum value out of it, but it is without a doubt the strongest perk.
I can GUARANTEE you the moment MfT gets nerfed, (which lets be real, it will be with the amount of complaints) Sprint Burst is next.
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Don't need to be a genius to see the blatant flaw in his thinking.
Since you're making me explain it to you he stated that MFT is "mathematically" the best exhaustion perk, period. That is false. Any exhaustion perk that has better synergy with players individuals build might be considered the best. And it has nothing to do with mathematics.
Despite all the emo rage posts and hysterics by killer mains I dont see MFT all that often. I dont run it. None of my friends run it consistently as killer mains postulate endlessly about on these forums.
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Okay maybe thats true, but in practice MFT will extend chases more than other exhaustion perks for your average player. SB is arguably stronger on a goated player but that same goated player can run MFT and get even more value. Same goes for lower skill levels, your average player using MFT will get more value from it than other exhaustion perks by virtue of existing.
I have no idea what serveers you are on but I know I see at least 2 MFT's in every game. Its rare to see none, I see more MFT's than I do SB nowadays because mft just gets more value for much less effort. Your friends are not an example of the survivor playerbase, just because none of your friend group uses it doesnt mean its not broken.
And even if it isnt broken (which is it) its unhealthy and problematic and badly designed and should get a rework either way. At least lithe needs a vault and has skill in preserving it. at least SB just guarantees the chase starts on equal footing and can maybe save you if you play super well. MFT makes it take 20% to reach you just because you equipped it. It slaughters m1 killers, making it take an extra 8 seconds to reach them after a hit by default allowing them to cover an extra 32m of distance. just for equipping the perk.
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Aye, UW needs a nerf. Adjust the cooldown/active time and it's fine.
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Agree to disagree. I personally think being near invincible at loops with both previous versions of Dead Hard was more useful than being able to reach a loop easier. If you position yourself well or left earlier you would've made the loop anyway.
I think Sprint Burst and MFT are both really good perks and using either is fine but it depends on the player I think. If you get caught out in the open or in a bad position often, then yes Sprint Burst is better for you. But if you're a good looper who can avoid being out of position than MFT is better.
The other problem with Sprint Burst over MFT and old Dead Hard was that if you see it activate, you can just leave them and you wasted no time on then. With MFT and DH, the perk gives value mid chase and so when you do have to leave them you've lost so much time and pressure. With Sprint Burst you didn't lose that much.
I personally run Sprint Burst myself because I find it much more fun than MFT, but I think a good survivor would get more use from MFT than Sprint Burst, especially on the newer maps like Garden, Borgo, or Red Forest where there's tons of pallets and vaults nearby that you don't really need to to worry about not making a loop.
But then Dead Hard comes into it. Sprint Burst is better than Dead Hard on its own, no question about that. But when paired you pair MFT with Dead Hard I think MFT beats Sprint Burst as the best Exhaustion perk. The weakness of MFT, as you mentioned, is that if you are in a bad spot you go down but Dead Hard removes this weakness and you've just used MFT to extend the chase and now Dead Hard has kept you up when you should've gone down.
Old Dead Hard was much better than Sprint Burst (and MFT). Again, it was bad it the open, but a good survivor should rarely be caught in the open. At a loop, you were near invincible.
"I GUARANTEE you the moment MfT gets nerfed Sprint Burst is next"
People said this both times Dead Hard was nerfed (even before it was nerfed actually) and it never happened. Lithe received more complaints here than Sprint Burst did after DH was nerfed the second time.
This is like saying "once Blight's add ons get nerfed people will just complain about someone else!" Yeah that's true, but that doesn't mean Blight's add ons don't need to be nerfed.
So basically, I agree Sprint Burst is an amazing perk, probably in the top 3-5 survivor perks, but I don't think it's as good as MfT or the previous Dead Hard versions. I think giving up Sprint Burst for MfT is worth it if you are a good looper.
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I'm probably in the minority but damn the meta is fun right now. UW & MFT bringing back that old feel. More chaos! more more please!
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I want to say 2 things one of which I'll probably be flamed for: 1. For all the people talking about screaming in lockers I'm pretty sure that's a bug and 2. (Genuinely curious) why are people complaining about this but not darkness revealed?
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I can see why you'd nerf UW's synergy with DMS. But otherwise the perk is in a pretty good spot. It's strong and a great perk on different killers but nerfing it's cooldown because Nurse and Blight exist cannot be the right course of action.
If we were to balance around them, then DS could stun for 10 seconds, DH could be reverted, SB could work as it was released all those years ago (no exhaustion, just a cooldown) and maps could have infinites again. After all, Nurse and Blight can deal with all that. Never mind that every other killer would become useless.
Nurse and Blight are their own issue.
Post edited by Xernoton on0 -
I think they just should remove scream from perk and make it different perk. Like maybe it will show survivor's aura for 3 second whenever they enter your TR.
So no longer works with DMS but still strong.
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I honestly like the idea of a perk with a loud noise notification more. It is weaker than aura vision but for a perk like this, that could activate at any given point after you opened a locker, I find it better when the perk actually notifies you that someone is tracked. Otherwise you would easily miss it.
Change the scream to a general loud noise notification and the problem is solved.
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I'm abusing the hell out of this perk right now and feel so bad.🙈 Nothing counters it and I know where everyone is at all times. Calm spirit doesn't work against it I still see bubbles, lockers don't work against it, distortion doesn't work against it. I just open lockers and know where to go next. I'm on autopilot.
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And why not use Calm Spirit? This is exactly what a living (not set in stone) meta is: new stuff becomes strong and gets regularly encountered, thus customising options that were subpar before become a counter and edge into the meta. Its a give and take that should keep things theoretically moving, but in DBD a lot of players seem to be adverse to the idea of not using the strongest possible build and hate the idea to divert one spot on the perk loadout to counter or deal with a meta choice that the other side most likely will employ... maybe not every match, but he majority. I think its this "I want value each match from mu perks, otherwise its subpar/uncool/unfun" thinking, that drives a lot of push towards nerfs instead of adapting the loadout.
Of course, some perks are indeed busted and in need of a change, and Ultimate Weapon is really, really strong, but it also gets 100% countered by a perk that's not meta right now.
When survivors started playing a lot of Adrenalin after the medkit nerf I started to make room for Terminus, a subpar perk in most cases, but in the Adrenalin meta it saved the day and pulled its weight exceptionally. During the DH meta there were all kind of builds that tried to counter it, it was just that oppressive (Septic Touch to Hysteria and Blood Echos ... here were all kind of builds just to counter DH). And now with MFT to prevalent I see myself using that +5% speed perk from the Alien more and more. I just wished that it got a bit more uptime, 10s is really a very short window, BUT it's often enough to punish cheeky MFT users and I have it equipped on a lot of killers.
Terminus, Repid Brutality, Ultimate Weapon and STBFL or DMS seems to be rather meta on my side, a far cry from the PainRes/Eruption/Pop/NowhereToHide kick meta.
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It would be so but calm spirit doesn't counter it. You still see the notifications of their location, the survivor just doesn't scream. :) Nothing counters this perk.
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Actually... I want aware of this. I really thought that Calm Spirit was the hard counter. I stand corrected ... but my other piece about people being unwilling to move the meta still stands.
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Not the perk needs nerfs, the high-mobility killers need nerfs while the normal killers (M1-Killers like Trapper) need buffs. I dont get how the devs over and over and over again release perks which opens the scissor between the killers more and more instead of closing the gap inside the whole Killer-Roster.
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So Nurse and Blight are a problem? That's nothing new.
Is ultimate weapon this strong in Freddy or Legion?
Also..... Survivors playing stealthy?????
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Ultimate Weapon is likely a deal breaker for a lot of survivor mains. This perk is way too powerful. No more hiding near progressed gens or really near any locker. I feel like most killer mains are going to start using ultimate weapon alongside iron maiden and any perks that increase their terror radius. Hiding near a progressed gen when you're in hard to win situations such as half your team eliminated and there is still a gen or 2 left to do is out of the question now. Killer players using this perk will open every locker on perk cool down that is anywhere near a gen. Survivors should not be so easily found when hiding in the open because a locker being opened makes them scream. How do you even counter that? Is every survivor going to be forced to use calm spirit forever now? Does that even negate all of ultimate weapons effects? I'm not at all happy about a perk like this being in the game now. It forces survivors to change their entire playstyle because 1 perk gives the killer survivor locations within their terror radius. No one is going to want to do hide within terror radius challenges anymore because of this.
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OoO was the best tracking perk and got gutted.
Why should killer side be spared?
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I'm surprised no one around the dev table said, "You know, our community doesn't like strong perks and cries out NERF anytime we release anything that causes them a minor inconvenience. Why don't we scale this one back a few notches."
To loosely paraphrase what someone else had mentioned before. Getting into chases faster and theoretically trying to speed up gameplay is the direction devs are headed in with the game. I wonder if we will see more non-totem perks that have multiple effects bundled in.
Post edited by Nun_So_Vile on0 -
I have the lurking suspicion, that this is part of BHVRs plan to make the game more fun, again. A lot was done in the last year to make the game more "balanced", and while we succeeded with that, we all felt the pangs of the aftermath: killers without OP regression felt they needed to tunnel, and tunneled survivors without DH felt the need to slam gens like their live depended on it (which it frankly does. Duh!), instead of memeing around or going for a brisk stroll around the grounds, leading to both sides tunneling and slamming away like its no ones business.
MFT, while severely hated by the killer community, was the ray of hope that a lot of survivors had hoped for: a new, slightly overtuned (maybe OP, maybe not) chase perk that let them reenact their favorite sketch from the Benny Hill Show.
And low and behold, next chapter kllers got Ultimate Weapon and Rapid Brutality, two perks that counter sneaky survivors hard and gave crafty and deft killers a 10s window to shut down those pesky MFT users.
Basically both killers and survivors got unbalanced, overtunend (maybe OP) new tools that they love and the other side hates and that breathed a bit of fresh air into the stale DBD formula. Games are allowed to be fun again, both sides now have something to fight the more frustrating elements of the game and we all get more chases that are winnable for both sides, something that we all dearly craved, yet harshly missed.
Our constant yelling and whining got the game pretty balanced, but this balancing act also optimised the fun out of the game and players used the last screw they could tighten (tunneling and slamming gens) to their full extend, tightening it as fast as they could. I guess asymetric games NEED to be a little bit unbalanced and swing both ways, allowing for dumb and hilarious misplays and spectacular triumphs. What we need now is a means for killers to be rewarded for hooks and punished for early kills, while not shooting themselves in the foot for letting a survivor on death hook getting away in favor of an unhooked conpatriot.
Not sounding dramatic, but DBD is at a turning point right now: BHVR must get it back in line and bring the fun back into the game, or else we will be left with a dedicated playerbase thats too stubborn to stop playing the game, while turning more and more bitter and resentful.
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