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Why isn't self killing on hook considered as griefing/ruining on purpose and it's not bannable?
I understand the situation where the last 2 survivors are alive, one kills himself to try and give the remaining survivor a hatch, that's fine.
But when a survivor gets knocked down only ONE time, they get hooked ONE time and killer doesn't even camp/patrol the area, I see survivors literally "trying" to escape at 5 gens and missing skillchecks on 2nd stage thus "legally" leaving the game without disconnecting.
In most games trolling and ruining matches on purpose by dieing a lot, giving enemy opponent/team kills for free and other griefing moments are reportable and can be considered as bannable offense.
If a survivor joined a match only to get downed 10 seconds into the game and instead of rage quitting they decide to rage kill themselves, that's same griefing and should be punishable because it's clear the dude decided to ruin the match for survivor's team at least.
Comments
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Remove DC penalty and its solved
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The problem is How would you prove it?
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"I understand the situation where the last 2 survivors are alive, one kills himself to try and give the remaining survivor a hatch, that's fine."
^ This is probably the reason it's not bannable, because if it were reported as "unsportsmanlike," the devs wouldn't be able to tell that the person sacrificed themselves to give the last teammate a chance at the hatch, or if it was indeed an early game ragequit.
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There's a bunch of reasons why people do it. If someone is being abused on the hook, I don't blame them for trying to unhook. Nobody wants to sit through that for three minutes.
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lol. If you get downed 10 seconds after the match started, try to escape and miss everything on 2nd stage that turns into vs 3 survivors at 5 gens and is equal to leaving the game on purpose. This evidence can surely be easily tracked.
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It's not bannable because you can't prove intent. For all you know they could have been actually trying to get the 4% and legitimately failed two skillchecks.
On top of that, there's situations where most people agree it's fine, for example when there's only 2 survivors left, when everyone is downed...
One time i killed myself on first hook because it turned out my teammates were busy tbagging in the basement, I'm sure the killer thought I ragequit and ruined the game for everyone else, but truly there was no game to ruin and I just wanted to move on.
Obviously most of the time it's just someone leaving because of petty reasons, but as long as you can't prove it the Devs can't punish them.
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Sure there are some ways to look into. It's called "ingame stats that we don't see but are recorded server side". Every dev with proper tools can basically look into that match by time stamps and see what everyone was doing.
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The server can't tell if someone missed a skillcheck on purpose or not, so they wouldn't do anything about it anyway.
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Kind of circular, but its not bannable because its an in game mechanic.
The real question is why its an in game mechanic at all. Just disable self unhooks on the first two attempts and the game would improve (obligatory 'slippery meat/deliverance exempted' that needs to be said every time this comes up).
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I had a game yesterday against Spirit. I was first down, and I waited about 30s but no one tried to come for me. So I took my chances, fully expecting to just 'go next', and I lucked out and managed to unhook myself on the second (last) try.
I ended up escaping with a 3E result.
That's why it's still in the game.
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You would have to ban like 1/3 of the playerbase if not more, it could work in a balanced game but not dbd, so many matches are rigged from the start especially solo q it's simply not worth staying, keep in mind comebacks are much less common on survivor it almost never happens, killer can snowball and comeback at any time in the match
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Congratulations! The removal of the DC penalty would finally allow killers to ragequit as much as survivors do on hooks.
Resulting in a 75-100% killrate in the stats (which ignore DC games), if only because every killer would legally DC when the gates are powered.
The penalty must stay.
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I've always said the best way to prevent early Kobe self kills is to have Kobe attempts cost in game blood points. I'd shoot for 8k as the number.
That would persuade some people to stay in the game, but more importantly you would have to stay in the game long enough to accrue blood points in the first place to try to Kobe yourself out of the game.
Sure more people would DC and the bots are still pretty terrible, but bots are still better than someone dying on hook as soon as possible.
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Completely ignoring the fact that there are valid uses for kobe attempts, and you shouldn't be penalised for those.
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lol by DCing you still forfeit every point you gained at the match
Its not gonna be more common than it is right now
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ever single time the dc penalty was removed, dcs were everywhere. it should never happen
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If someone is being abused on the hook
Bro it's a video game, lmao. You're just giving the "abuser" an easy win by rage quitting like this btw.
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This is the whole reason WHY the dc penalty exists to prevent people from ruining matches because they didn't like what they were up against.
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then people will kill themselves on hook
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Because why would I bother staying in-game when I'm being face camped by a killer with a one shot down ability and will just end up being tunneled to death even if i get free? You think that's fun OP?
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Good thing you aren't in charge of balance decisions then.
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Whats that even supposed to mean.
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I'm not the one going for the 4%. The killers usually don't get me first. I just don't hold hostility towards players don't want to sit through that.
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If I want to move on, I will move on ... and there is NOTHING you can do to stop it.
Deal with it, period!
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Easy, implemented a 5 minute window from start of the match. Any hook death with more than 1 escape attempt in the first phase will be counted as intentional.
With this people that want to exit only have to wait an extra minute. So hard camping killer will at least be distracted for that amount of time helping the others.
And yes, people that don't want to play in a match they deem unfun might sabotage the others when getting rescued in that one minute, but only for the first hook Stage and then they can get reported and might face other consequences.
Edit: Even better, people that get flagged by this don't get the DC penalty but a stigma "early leaver" or something so other people can steer clear of such people. Nobody likes to play with that irk.
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If I could choose an option to never play against or with you, I would choose that option.
If you feel so strongly that you should only play the games you want to play and leave whenever you want, then you shouldn’t be playing multiplayer games with strangers
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If I want to move on, I will move on ... and there is NOTHING you can do to stop it.Deal with it, period!I do enjoy the tough guy talk with capital letters and exclamation marks to decree that you have the ability to alt f4.
Obviously you can quit a game, but BHVR can impose timeout penalties for certain actions to make it much less likely such players will be in matches or that those actions will be taken. I doubt they will, but there are lots of things they could do.
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Survs shouldn't be able to get of the hook themselves in the first place.
No one is using Slippery Meat for that and soon (?) we'll have basekit Deli anyway.
Killing yourself on hook just negates the DC penalty and the implementation of bots, it's an outdated feature.
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Because you are assuming intent.
Most of the player problems in this game and what leads to the majority of out of game toxicity is people going around assuming another player's intent.
People always tend to assume the worst and want to punish other players on that basis alone.
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If a survivor is on a hook, a survivor owes it to the other to unhook. It's a fundamental part of the game.
Dying on hook isn't against the rules, DCing is.
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"Solve" an entitlement problem by making the lobby shopping issue a much larger one.
Might as well show the killer, their prestige, perks, offerings, and the map in the lobby, just so survivors REALLY consider if this is a game they wanna play. Who cares if killers get to play against actual humans and not bots.
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Well, on the same note, should not rescuing someone also be considered griefing? Like someone dies on the first hook because you just dont rescue him (because the gates are already open, or a bubba is camping him), he dies on first hook but because you choose to let him die.
There usually is a reason why people want to leave the match, and a lot of times its the other survivors. There are often survivors that think the best way to get rid of the killer is lead him to you and the 95% finished gen, or to stay save is hidding in the corner doing nothing.
If you go down after 2 minutes, and noone has touched a single gen, why is it griefing if you leave as soon as possible?
Maybe its on me, i run bound in all my builds and know for the most parts where my teammates are and what they are doing. And thats quite frustrating.
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It's a game, not a blood pact for life.
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There are so many factors not tracked by stats. Was a save preparing to happen or was the guy left on hook, was the killer camping or proxying, was the person trying to leap off the hook with the luck they brought? You cant track intent its not possible and lets say they punished you for attempting on hook, people if they want to leave the match will just run into the killer then let go on second stage. No matter what you suggest or how many stats you think the devs have, the survivor who wants to leave the match will find a way.
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No matter what you suggest or how many stats you think the devs have, the survivor who wants to leave the match will find a way.No one is suggesting there is a way to make players never leave a game.
The simple question to start: why do players hook suicide? If they want out of the game, why not just disconnect? That would be a lot quicker.
Well, hook suiciding doesn't have a DC penalty and players can still keep their blood points (though the latter is likely not much of a factor).
Clearly the DC penalty is something people want to avoid.
Thus if attempting escape on hook early in the game was impossible, players are back to the choice of if they want to eat the DC penalty.
Which maybe they do, that's fine, at least in that case there's still a bot in the game.
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Probably because of the self unhook mechanic. They could just remove it entirely, but as it is, there isn't a way to separate people killing themselves on purpose vs people who think they are the entity's chosen (but aren't actually).
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And what is early in the game? 5 minutes in? 10 minutes? 1 hour? It is too variable to be reliably added in, and if someone does not want to play they will just simply attempt after the early game attempt block is over.
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Seriously? That's the issue?
That's like saying should survivors have 2, 3, 4, or 50 hook states, there's no way to decide!
No, you start with an educated guess, then you test it, and adjust as necessary.
My suggestion: the first two hooks can't kobe for the first 45 seconds they are on the hook, barring slippery meat/deliverance/EGC activating.
If we were going time limits, I'd say 3 minutes is a reasonable time frame.
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