Is it me or...
Ultimate weapon encourage slugging the 3rd for 4K?
Comments
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Probably doesn't help when the perk makes it so insanely easy to find people, but i haven't noticed an increase in slugging for the 4k with it personally
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People who want that 4K to slug, don't need this perk, they will do that on their own anyway. I would even say this perks help the slugged person being slugged for shorter time since you can find the last survivor easier so less time wasted.
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This perk does many things at once. I personally think it encourages every unfun strategy there is out there and also rewards you for it by not wasting your time or extra perkslots.
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It's you.
A killer that wants their 4k will slug anyway. So Ultimate Weapon makes little difference in that matter.
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There is still a different between really want to do it without the perk, and "i have the perk, why shouldnt I slug?"
Its not about encourage killers to slug when this perk exist, its about killers using this perk is encourage to slug. Not complaining though.
Most of the time I face killers with this perk, they slug.
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No. Not at all.
It is you.
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There is alot different between seeing survivors 70m away after closing a locker, and seeing them at 24-32m, since know location the closer, the better. Alone of that the perk is already better than Dredge's one.
By pass Distorson is another.
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I have personally found there to be an increase in being slugged for the 4k... but I've been using Calm Spirit so not sure if it's because of UW necessarily lol
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They mostly down me (being the 3rd survivor) then open a locker and chase/hook the 4th one.
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I don't know if it would induce players to slug for the 4k more often, but it definitely makes finding the 4th survivor a lil easier.
You are probably seeing correlation not causation, if I'm likely to slug for the 4k anyway and have a tool that makes it easier, I'll probably use that tool.
Is it so bad though? As from my understanding of these forums... half the problem people have with being slugged for the 4k is having to lie there and wait for 4 mins, if this speeds up that process shouldn't that be a good thing for them.
I know logic is a heavy burden sometimes.
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Wouldn't it be the same for Whispers? It's not a direct notification but it gives you an idea where a survivor is.
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Kinda sorta... The thing with Whispers is it detects the slugged survivor too. This means if the last survivor is close when you down his teammate, you'll have a hard time finding him with Whispers. Maps like The Game make this even more true since Whispers will be on most of the time.
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All on command aura perks encourage "slugging for the 4k"
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People who like to slug for the 4k will continue, people who don't probably won't suddenly start. It might make some people chance it sometimes, but I seriously doubt we're gonna see a giant spike in slugging for 4K.
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Any on demand info perk could be argued encourages slugging for 4k. I don't think that's necessarily a problem, but darkness revealed, nowhere to hide, whispers, etc. All give you a tool to help try to find the final survivor. Unless you do something drastic though that's just the nature of those style of perks.
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Of course it does. There's a lot of players that dislike looking for the last remaining survivor, because it is unlikely you will find them, it's essentially pure luck. So they don't even bother. It is also very common for killers to search for a little while but then give up on it and hook the slugged survivor after all. Give these killers Ultimate Weapon and I guarantee they will be much more willing to slug until they "find" that last survivor standing.
It also encourages camping. Proc UW around the hook - people near? Camp. Nobody near? Widen your patrol until it procs, then chase that survivor away, increasing your chances you can then camp to struggle stage.
It makes tunnelling easier too, because the unhooked survivor can't hide.
It makes the 1v1 endgame that is already skewed in the killer's favour downright impossible.
It encourages slugging because you can quickly and reliably find your next targets, and they will also be blind, unable to locate slugs.
Helps with 3-genning because you don't even have to go all the way up to gens to see if people are on them, and you can also find the reset locations if they're not on gens.
The Dead Man Switch combo can be pretty brutal.
It interrupts totem cleanses, good luck cleansing Devour or Pentimento.
It's the best tracking perk by far, constantly available at any point in the game without any condition apart from opening a locker, reliably finding much of anyone much of anywhere at much of any time, and providing interaction interruptions and Blindness on top of it. Why use Lethal Pursuer, Nowhere To Hide, Barbecue or let alone Thwack!, all of which are conditional, situational and have innate counters, if you can just use UW? Stealth is the one semi-reliable counterplay against the strongest killers (Nurse, Blight, Spirit), but with UW they can find you at any time, through Off The Record as well.
The thing is that we really didn't need this perk. With Barbecue, Pursuer and Nowhere To Hide, BHVR had already provided perfect tracking perks that encouraged leaving hooks and rewarded killers with finding their chases quickly (granted, NTH is already pretty busted on Nurse). Why powercreep every single one released in the game's history with this? And then slap Blindness on top. It really feels like the Made For This equivalent - something that is just gratuitously overtuned and then some, just to have a new meta-defining perk. And as opposed to Made For This, it doesn't even have any drawback (not active when healthy or Exhausted).
Making it possible to hide in lockers won't be enough to balance the perk, by the way. Unless you can see the killer coming from miles away, how will you know to hide in a locker and when to leave it? They would have to make it so Ultimate Weapon has a predefined range, such as 24m, so that a survivor can hide in a locker preemptively once they hear terror radius. Then killers would at least have to use Monitor & Abuse alongside it to get reliable value.
To note: I think in general it's good that BHVR is finally releasing at least a few really strong, metagame-changing perks. For these to be chase and tracking perks is also a good thing. Reliable means of tracking encourage killers to go for chases, leaving hooks and alternating their targets. It's just that UW does a little too much, including making camping and tunnelling easier.
Calm Spirit does exist and it entering into common builds would be fun. But still, I think something like reducing UW's active duration to 15 seconds would be in order. Or making it so that it only activates the moment you open a locker (or at the end of the opening locker interaction, such that you can actually look around and see people), but removing the cooldown in turn.
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no, i haven't got uw using killers do it. but it takes camping to a next level i saw that. use perk, check around, see if anybody is here -bam- no need to even camp, if someone is nearby you can chase them if noone screams don't waste time and go somewhere else.
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I wanna touch on your last paragraph.
"Calm Spirit does exist and it entering into common builds would be fun. But still, I think something like reducing UW's active duration to 15 seconds would be in order. Or making it so that it only activates the moment you open a locker (or at the end of the opening locker interaction, such that you can actually look around and see people), but removing the cooldown in turn."
Why but still?
Calm spirit hasn't really been meta before. Now? It's a no brainer for everything coming at Survivors now. Screaming, Auras and out of position are the biggest reasons Survs get caught.
Calm spirit literally removes a few killers from being even mildly threatening. Doc, Pinhead, Pyramid head, you name it, it locks a lot of powers down 100%
Paired with distortion/Sole Survivor, you're pretty much a ninja against the meta now.
Can you go into more about Calm spirit? You gave it one sentence then just brushed it under the rug. Maybe you're not seeing it? UW isn't bad unless you do not have Calm spirit. Then it simply doesn't exist.
Ive seen 'I shouldn't have to play a perk to counter another." Uh.. thats the entire game, ######### lol. I just don't understand sometimes.
Post edited by Spare_Them_Mori_Me on0 -
Well, first of all, the game really isn't about countering perks with perks. Not even their perk design philosophy revolves around that concept. There are some perks you can use to counter others, but none of them are meta. There are simply better things you can use perks for in this game than trying to counter your opponents' perks, particularly given that they may well not use the specific perk(s) you're looking to counter.
Secondly, Calm Spirit really doesn't do too many worthwhile things apart from countering Ultimate Weapon (which it also only does to an extent). Not disturbing crows is neat, but that's really only relevant in rare instances, made even more rare by the fact that most players really don't pay close attention to crows. Plus in the game scenarios where crows could become really relevant, it is regularly possible for the survivor to refrain from disturbing them anyway, by crouching. The Pain Resonance and Jolt screams don't really matter, Eruption still reveals your aura. Doctor definitely loses part of his potency against Calm Spirit in that he isn't able to reliably find people with the passive shock anymore, but Doctor illusions still spawn and the actually powerful part of Doc's kit is the interaction prevention. Pinhead and Pyramid Head don't care about Calm Spirit much at all.
Next, it has to be noted that 1 Calm Spirit would only make Ultimate Weapon (and other scream perks/abilities) 25% less effective, given that the 3 other survivors are still affected. While we can sit here and discuss the idea that arguably people should be using Calm Spirit in a UW-dominated meta, the fact of the matter is that most simply won't. Even some of the best, most popular perks see usage percentages in the 20s, meaning only 1 in 5 players will be using them - and those are simply all-around good perks, not perks equipped to counter other perks on the off-chance that the opponent is using them. I mean, Kindred is an amazing perk for solo queue, everyone playing solo arguably should be using it most of the time. Yet fairly few people are. And so while you might not get found due to using Calm Spirit, your teammates can still get found, pushed off gens, away from hooks, tunnelled out, and so on, all of course still very much to the detriment of your chances of survival. It also still afflicts you with Blindness, ha.
Killers could use Shattered Hope against Boons, but that definitely didn't make people think of Circle as any less problematic. And that's despite the fact that 1 Shattered Hope could fairly effectively counter up to 16 Boon perks (if every survivor were to bring 4), whereas 1 Calm Spirit again only counters 25% of UW. Spending perk slots on things that don't have much utility or value outside of the specific counter just aren't all that worthwhile. What adds to this is the fact that Ultimate Weapon is a licensed perk, making it even more rare. So while you could equip Calm Spirit to (partially) counter it, now you will frequently be playing matches with essentially 3 perks. Worse still, it may well end up being to your detriment in matches where you find yourself having to cleanse totems. And Calm Spirit is a pretty boring perk to boot, providing no real interactivity, it's just passively there.
But Calm Spirit growing in popularity a bit alongside UW (just like Fearmonger and Blood Echo did, alongside MFT) is something I would like to see; I want to see meta shifts and this would make things a bit interesting, because then killers might end up inclined to bring a secondary tracking perk alongside UW, on the off-chance that multiple survivors are using Calm Spirit. But the meta in DbD really doesn't develop quite this reciprocally, the matchmaking just throws too many wildly varying players at each other for there to be a dense or defined metagame.
In general, I welcome the introduction of UW. I hate looking for survivors as killer and want the killer to find and chase me as survivor. Killers should be rewarded for leaving the hook and actively going for other survivors, the least the game can do is provide them with their next chase as quickly as possible. Barbecue and Nowhere To Hide already did this, but the more the merrier I suppose. The issue is that UW does too much, can be used to more effectively and efficiently camp, tunnel and slug as well, and is particularly problematic on some killers where stealth play for better or worse is integral to being able to compete (although those killers of course should need some adjustments themselves).
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if it does something in that slugg scenario it speeds up the process of finding the last survivor so all can move on
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A small portion of killers will slug without the perk.
The large portion will hook the 3rd survivors, though a part of them use the perk, will slug for 4K. It takes far less time than slugging without the perk for sure.
But my point is the perk encourage to slug, if killers have the perk, which is why I see an increasing of slugging.
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Wow. I appreciate the large write up response. :)
I also think I've never respectfully disagreed more. I feel.. strange lol.
Ill reply to this more proper when I get home from work. Dont wanna short change this lol. Refreshing to get a perspective thats azctually explained than shoved down throats :)
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If you're able to close the hatch it's pretty much gg for the survivor though. 32m away from the door is enough to know if the survivor is there or at the other. Unless they have Wake-Up.
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UW is an unhealthy perk in general.
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For sure, lol. You have to really screw up as killer to lose the gate game with whispers. In that scenario, the best chance the last guy has is hatch.
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