Rebalancing maps are good idea but...
... will we see same thing for killer favour maps too? Like Midwich , RPD and Saloon?
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I hope so, midwich needs to have an outside or something like what they added to rpd with its first rework.
side note hows rpd killer favored? is it both halves or just one? im not incredibly well versed in rpd's balance, all I know is I hate it on both sides😭
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Yeah RPD is very much killer favored when you know what you are doing. Main hol has 2 gens and one of the next rooms has another.
So you can hold 3 gen very easily.
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come to think of it I did that with huntress once. I just stood on the balcony with my hatchet out and waited lol. kinda gross.
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First up on the list should be Garden of Joy on pair with all Preschool maps, followed by The Game for M1 Killers and of course Mother's Dwelling and THEN we can start talking about making some Killer sided maps "nerfed".
The thing is, there is far more Survivor sided maps than Killers ones imo. And even when you get to the Killer sided map, maybe outside of Midwich, I rly don't feel like Survivors have hard time there or it's unfair map. I always feel that on the Killer tho.
It's also worth noting that there are 4 Survivors and each can bring their side map while killer is just one with less of a chance or countering it.
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I am fine to remove pallets from the Game if they add some vaults. This map terrible designed.
Vaults are usually where survivor & killer can outplay each other. The Game has not so much vaults, so for cost they added a lot pallets.
I agree , it's terrible map.
Garden of Joy already mentioned to be changed. Preschool maps also need to be changed. I don't see problem with Mother's Dwelling, it's just main building needs some tweaks.
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Most killer sided maps aren't nearly as unbalanced as the most egregious survivor sided maps.
That said, the worst offender is probably the new Rancid Abbatoir, that map is insanely killer sided now and needs more changes. Some other maps have ridiculous 3-gens that can spawn (looking at you, Dead Dawg corner 3-gen and Grim Pantry) but we already know BHVR is working on 3-gens as a whole.
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I would have to agree. While I hate midwich as much as the next guy its not like theres a lack of pallets or something like that. its playable, at the very least your chase can be enjoyable. GoJ main is an infinite.
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Mother's Dwelling is just way too big. Main building needs changes and the map size needs to be reduced, then it will be fine. The actual loops aren't a problem on that map other than the building.
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Actually true, map is also so big. I am fine with these changes.
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We dont do this here in this forum, please stop.
On a more serious note - not really sure what they can do to Midwich or RPD. They wanted to stay really close to the material they get from the respective games, so they either they move away from this or they are very limited. And IMO RPD was better before they split the map. It is still bad for the same reasons it was bad before, but now it is very easy to hold a 3-Gen there because the Map is so small.
When it comes to Dead Dawg, I think they would need to change the whole concept of the Map. And remove many breakable Walls. Their idea was to make the structures slightly stronger but add Breakable Walls, which make them much weaker. The small size adds to it.
So for starters they should remove some Walls and replace the structures with the standard structures (e.g. Shack should not have a breakable Wall, but also shrinked down to normal Shack, T/L-Walls dont have a breakable Wall, but are also replaced with regular T/L-Walls). And if then the Map is still as Killer-sided, they might want to increase its size a little bit, but nerf the Main Building to compensate for it.
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If RPD is killer-sided, why do survivors burn offerings for it so often? That's second only to gradeschool in my experience.
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I'm the odd one that actually likes Midwich, even as survivor. Even though I think it is slightly killer-sided I still have fun on it on both sides unless I'm playing a killer that's bad on indoor maps.
And yeah GoJ main is awful, that building needs major changes. The downstairs loop is way too strong and a lot of the upstairs parts are kinda pointless because the generator is right next to a god window. I still find it funny that there's a breakable wall in that building that could've been used to make the windows more balanced and instead it's in the most useless spot ever.
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right that breakable wall is so pointless. I only even bother if im on blight/huntress maybe slinger. blight can use the straight shot to land a hit or even bodyblock the window, and huntress can zone out the window. if you are lucky slinger could even pull them away from the window and down a floor.
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The achievement is hard to get and takes some time. (To open the Gates on RPD 20 times)
I was in a lobby with a streamer two times in a row and they sent us to RPD because they grinded the achievement. I would also not really say that it is survivor-sided and that this is the main reason why it is burned.
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I had no idea, that explains so much. I thought they either really loved RE or just wanted to annoy me.
Thanks, now I'll know it's probably for a completely wholesome reason.
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RPD is by far not a favored map for any side.
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I mean, at least I would think that this is the main reason. When I would want to send the Killer to a map where they have a hard time, RPD is probably one of the last maps I would choose. It is not really a favorite on either side. (Except for Stealth Killers probably)
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Midwich might not have the strongest loops in the game, but it's by far one of the hardest maps to patrol gens since you can only move up to the next floor at the corners unless you have some mobility power that allows you to bypass floors.
Saloon basically comes down to whether or not Survivors do the Saloon gen early. That Saloon gen is really hard to defend. Plus the area by the Saloon is pretty strong with chainable tiles.
As for RPD, I think it depends on the wing, but regardless there's some good loops survivors can waste a lot of time on.
The most killer side maps still have good things for survivor to use. Not really the same can be said for survivor sided map. I can't really think of anything good for any killer on maps like Garden of Joy or Red Forest.
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Honestly, I think RPD doesn't need any changes from a balancing perspective. The 3gen problem will be solved in the future anyway. So there really isn't a need to change the map on top of it. If they were to rework them again, I hope they will design the loops a bit more interactive than they are now. Most are best brute forced until the resources are gone. That's not particularly fun for either side.
Saloon would already be a way better map for survivors, if they were to shift a few tiles around. Put one of the maze tiles that spawn next to the water tower near the gallows and put a filler pallet there and it should be fine. Again, the 3gen issue that this map has will also be solved.
Midwich is a bit tricky. Making this map bigger without any further adjustments will easily end in a disaster. Surprisingly, Midwich has one of the highest pallet counts out of any map. However, most of them aren't great and when the right pallets are broken, the killer creates large dead zones. They would probably need to add another outside area a bit similar to RPD.
But seeing as how BHVR have made some maps much worse with their updates, I'm not even sure I want to see them rebalancing more maps.
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Hope they do garden of Joy better than abattoir we want a fair map not this... it's totally empty now, map has 6 pallets
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Theres a big difference between maps being fair and being "killer sided" , just because the killer isn't at an auto-disadvantage to the likes of Red Forest, Garden of Joy, Badham , etc etc. it doesn't mean the maps are killer sided, it just means they are less unfair
For instance, Dead Dog saloon has a strong main building, with a shack next to it, aswell as multiple fair structures infront of the main building , the only difference is, killer has the option to neutralize the strength of these structures by breaking walls, this is therefore a good designed map.
Its an entirely different situation when you look at badham, with 3-4 Strong houses, 1 Shack, 2 House of pain style basements, 1 super strong main building basement + with a pallet density that seems like every step you take you're within reach of a pallet.
Or GOJ with an Extremely strong main building, filler/decent pallets all troughout around the main building, then decently strong Window/Pallet Gyms on the edges + Standard shack
Both of these scream Auto-loss unless you're playing a High A / S tier killer.
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Not much was ever worse then seeing the Midwich offering flip and knowing it was a thousands of hours Nurse, or even worse yet, OG Skill Merchant w multifloor dronability, especially the 4 corners set up, w Adaptive Lighting and Brown Noise Gen add ons, and whatever build she wanted… 2 Gen perks w Pentimento and Plaything vs SoloQ on Midwich was brutal😩
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RPD is a terrible map for both sides. A lot of killers can’t even use their powers on that map.
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None of these maps is killer sided. There is no killer sided maps except maybe Family Residence and new Abattoir imo.
Midwich is my nightmare as m1 killer, gens almost impossible to control on this map. There is not so much bad pallets, in many of them good survivor could win a lot of time. Maybe Nurse feels super comfortable on this map, but cmon, it's Nurse. I would say it's also easy map for Doctor, maybe for Blight, but that's all. As survivor i only feel there should be some pallet at class room.
RPD is hard depends on killer and wing. As 4.4 killers this map is awful. It's one of the worst maps for Dredge, Singu, Artist. Definately not a great map for m1 killers. I don't see how this map whoever sided. This map has many pros and cons for both sides, but overall it's just a map that doesn't fit in DBD. Also West Wing is probably strong map for survivor. I took this map many time for my boon build and it's impossible not to get value from it here. It's also best shift+w map for survivors.
Saloon is one of the most balanced maps in the game. I don't know how map with such strong main building could be killer sided at all. It was back in the days, when there was nothing behind the gallows. This map is taken equally by both sides in my matches, so it really strange to call it killer sided.
In addition, if the devs have already set a course for an "honest" game on the killers part, then it cannot be that survivors expect not to put something on another scale, which would make chases shorter.
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There are no killer favored maps, there are a few that are almost balanced (60% kill rate) and there are loads that are massively survivor sided.
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Saloon is pretty balanced even if it leans slightly killer sided. I don’t think it needs any changes at all. Maybe spread out the gens a bit, but I think it’s perfectly fine as is honestly.
RPD is very killer dependant to be considered killer sided, but I wouldn’t complain about a rework to it because it’s not really a fun map for either side and still very confusing for new players.
Midwich I agree is killer sided. I think a rework is justified just so Nurse isn’t so destructive on it.
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As a killer main I stand by it, I do think that if survivor sided maps are to be changed, then killer sided ones need to as well. I really just want maps to be fun no matter the killer but because of the variety of killers its gonna be really hard when killers like slinger exist and at the same time blight exists. It would be cool to see almost a limited pool of maps based off of every killer so that way it's not just oh bad map for you killer over and over again plus then offerings can't be abused
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i'll add new alien map there, very weak map. but aside that, "killer sided" maps are only killer sided because of gen spawns, they should fix that and they are good, maybe except midwich but just compare how heavily certain maps favor survivors and midwich favors killers so it's not at the top of the priority list.
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Loads that are "massively" survivor sided? 😂
Your bias is glaring.
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So we can expect some changes for Saloon and Midwich?
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Sure you can expect changes when they re balance garden of misery, badham to begin with.. we could "discuss" more maps later but to begin with those two are in need at this point and lets not forget that eyrie is also kinda needing another pass check it has some really stupid tile/loop connections that are so strong it's a joke..
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Saloon doesn’t heavily favour killers the way Garden and Borgo heavily favour survivors.
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Yeah I agree it is easier for killers and that the 3 gen may be an issue, but I don’t think that needs an entire rework.
Bhvr has mentioned before they are planning on dealing with 3 gens so I think once their plan for that is released the map will be fine. Otherwise just spread the gens out a bit, but it doesn’t need a rework.
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I’m not even sure if devs will do a good job with the rebalancing. Red forest still feels the same overall despite the “rework”
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yeah. i'd say salloon is the perfect map maybe right next to coal tower. gen spawn fix is all it needs.
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No it won't. Most of pallets are pure garbage on this map and a lot dead zones as well. I am fine this map is being small but this map is far from being fine.
Nerf main building and add some loops to dead zones. Fixed.
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Yes. Can we please change the main building in Saloon, to remove all the lockers that are on narrow paths, because SWFs are purposely looping people on these narrow paths, so they can make unavoidable head on plays.
And can we change the main building in Saloon, so that boil over / sabotage SWFs can stop running into the side room on the 2nd floor? Maybe add some hooks in the main building, or give the killer more ways to get from those 2nd floor side rooms to the ground?
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A hook on the upstairs mezanine behind the gen would be ideal.
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did you have a bad match on the dead dog saloon or something? this is first that i see anyone complain about any of these maps.
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After the "balance" of Coldwind, I am 100% convinced the devs want all maps to be killer sided
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Because they want to play the map
Dead Dawg Saloon is also one of the most common offerings by survivors
Are you gonna say that map is not killer sided as well?
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The achievement is hard because, guess what?? Its a killer sided map! Less chances for you to open the exit games lol
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Of course not 😂
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Nah i usually have good games on Saloon. Even main building is not problem when you break walls. This map is overall bad.
Main building can be so annoying if you are playing m1 killer. And rest of map is so garbage. Like i said, nerf main building and add some loops to dead zones.
If you disagree, fine. This is my opinion on this map.
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Dead Dawg main building still has a chance to spawn a 100% infinite, correct? Haven’t heard anything about it being fixed in the last weeks.
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That was fixed in 7.2.1.
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My question was asked and answered. I didn't say any maps were killer sided, I don't pay attention to things like whining about maps.
We get it, you said it multiple times right in a row. You think RPD is killer-sided, along with all the other maps.
Ok.
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