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The ISSUE and SOLUTION to MAP OFFERINGS
I'd liked to open the discussion and hopefully broach the idea enough that it might reach behaviour on the issue with Map Offerings.
When map offerings were introduced it was a neat concept to be able to go to the map you wanted to, but like everyone, it became an abused thing and an easy way for either killers or survivors to force people into the maps they want, that allow them to essentially bully others or gain easy victories.
This wouldn't have been much of an issue since Macmillan, Coldwind and Azarov's (few others), are realms with multiple maps. But here in lies the issue. The offerings are "technically" realm offerings, this was true since a coldwind offering did not guarantee map selection. However since MOST realms are just one map, it makes it very easy for people to just bully others with the litany of single map choices.
Behaviour attempted to solve this problem by introducing the Sacrificial Ward, which honestly was a dumb solution. All of this to me has been a problem but the most egregious offense came after Xenomorph's release. Behaviour decided to say ######### it, to any sense of consistency and even though Xeno's map is part of Toba Landings realm, they gave him his OWN map offering, making it the ONLY realm in the game to have TWO map offerings now.
Is behaviour going to remove it, obviously not, will they go back and make new offerings for ALL the maps, of course not. So what is the point of map offerings except to bully others and ruin the game experience.
This is where the obvious solution comes in. Map offerings should not allow someone to guarantee going to that map. Instead how they should work is that if someone brings a Coldwind Map offering, it removes all coldwind maps from the rotation. If someone brings the game, than you know you won't be going to the game for that match. The sac ward in turn would nullify all map offerings which would allow a person to put the map they want to go to back into rotation without guaranteeing it.
At the end of the day this is the pubs experience not comp, why the heck is map selection even a thing???
I really think that changing offerings to work this way would better balance the game as people can no longer use specific builds for one map that only bully killers/survivors. Boil over build anyone?
Comments
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Is there seriously no one who considers Map Offerings a problem in this game? 😑
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Map offering to remove a map will severely limit available maps with the map repetition rule in effect. Savvy people will just play 4 different map offerings to just force the RNG more favorably. At minimum, that's 5 realms they know they won't get.
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There is like 40 maps in the game and more then half of them are broken or unfun in some way, if survivors and killer all could veto maps they really dont want to play you would still have a whole lot of different maps, you could even make it so on survivor side that it is visible to others so you dont veto the same map more than once. If there are maps that no killer/survivor wants to play on why force people to play on the map?
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no, unless you're sending us all to backwater swamp
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lol. I don't know why you don't like it but it's one of my favorite maps as both survivor and killer.
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It is still far better than guaranteeing their map.
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Wanted to broach this subject again, I still feel like map offerings should work the opposite way and know without community support no chance bhvr would ever take notice of this idea.
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it's a huge issue, I keep getting garden of joy/coldwind offerings when i play killer, I don't mind playing these maps IF it's random but not 10 times in a row
the simple way to fix it is to reverse them, a map offering block this realm instead of sending you there
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I hate that most people want to 'solve' map offerings by nuking them into oblivion. I'd still like to be able to choose a certain realm from time to time.
I don't understand why anyone would want map offerings to do the opposite and be a 'map ban' function. That's a sure way to make them useless. You ban one realm, you still have 19 more realms to choose from, and it's not like there's only one 'problematic' realm.
The real way to 'solve' map offerings is to ensure every offering can roll multiple maps or variants of a map, and to make sure these variants are different enough that they can feasibly be seen as a killer sided variant and a survivor sided variant. This way they can't be 'abused', because a given offering will still have a chance to roll either a killer or survivor sided option.
There's a reason why no one really complains about the Macmillan/Autohaven/Coldwind offerings.
Instead of giving Macmillan 5 new variations, give us more options for the later realms that only have a single map in them.
Withered Isle is perfect for a new multi-map selection of original maps, it could have The Boathouse, The Lighthouse, The Beach, etc. Instead of 'reworking' Eyrie and Borgo, add the new options as additional variations.
Yes we have two offerings for Toba Landing and Nostromo, despite them both being in the Dvarka realm. Solution: keep both offerings for flavour purposes, but they each do the same thing, give a chance to go to either map.
It's as if people forget that those who have the power to change how map offerings work, are the same people who have the power to change maps as well, and the maps are the real issue here.
Post edited by Seraphor on2 -
There are about 2 or 3 'killer sided' maps in the game, and a dozen or so 'survivor sided' maps. And you think it's fair to give survivors the ability to coordinate to veto 4 maps every game while the killer gets 1?
Survivors could still just as easily abuse this by coordinating to ban Midwich, RPD, Lerys and Gideon, and you get no indoor options to ensure you can see the killer at all times. Meanwhile killer bans Garden of Joy and can still get Badham, Eyrie, Borgo, half of the Macmillan/Coldwind/Autohaven maps, Dead Dawg with it's new infinite, or Ormond.
And ultimately, you're still going to have to force people to play on maps they don't want to play on, because you're not going to have the offering you need to burn every single game.
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I didn't specify how it would go, we could argue about giving survivors 2-3 map bans each and killers the total amount the survivor team has so 8-12. I think even if both sides get to ban like 10-15 maps each you would still get some map variety, and if maps are that bad that people don't want to play on them why force them?
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There are 20 realms. 10-15 bans each side means no one is going anywhere.
And even if you applied it just to individual maps, of which are there 42, that rules out over half the roster. Certain maps that are widely disliked will never get played, ever. You may as well just ask BHVR to delete the 20 most disliked maps because that's what this would do.
Also as someone mentioned above, every single player would get an additional veto to whatever number they get, due to the map repeat prevention system. Even if survivors get 1 each, and the killer gets 4 to be fair, by automatically ruling out the previous map you played on, you can still veto 13 maps this way.
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Instead of removing entire Realms, they should bring back the retired individual offerings that can send you to a specific MAP (Such as https://deadbydaylight.fandom.com/wiki/Lunacy_Ticket) and instead it blocks that 1 map. So you can block Asylum but you might still get Father Cambell's Chapel.
But I 100% agree with you that offerings should be reversed, no 1 person should determine where 5 people have to play.
Post edited by MizukiAyu on0 -
Those offerings never did that, you should read their description more thoroughly.
Map offerings always chose the realm, never a specific map. That the offerings for Toba Landing and Nostromo Wreckage do that is a new thing.
The only difference between the old retired offerings and the current ones is that their chances to send you to their realm were much lower compared to the current ones, which are essentially a guarantee. Brown ones had a modifier of 2, yellow ones one of 5 and the green ones have one of 9,999.
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That's what a sac ward is for, and its much better to use to re-include map options without the guarantee of them, than randomize ALL maps while still having the chance to go to where you don't want.
Sac ward is a dumb solution to map selection. At least in this case it allows a killer the chance and no survivor or killer is guaranteed any map.
Also would like to point at DBD might be the only game with a ranked gamemode where one team technically has map control power (4 survivors with 1 offering override a killer map or even sac ward). Most other games use a map voting system, full random map or pre-selected maps that you only go to where the other team also agreed (CS:GO).
It's insane to me that one side can select the map over the other.
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I never wanted to apply it to realms but to maps itself. I still think it is completely ok if those maps don't get played... I mean imagine it like that, when you look at tournament settings or people playing with their friends they will usually agree on some rather balanced maps, because basically nobody likes certain maps.
Why exactly is it a problem if people don't have to play on ######### maps? I don't understand you there, yes those maps should either get reworked or maybe even deleted if they are beyond savable, but I don't see a reason to force people to play on those maps if there are plenty of other maps to play on... So why is it a problem if the players don't have to play on the most disliked maps of either side?
Considering the map repeat prevention only reduces chances to get a certain map that just means you have a higher chance to get to a map nobody has had before, which is still possible if somewhere between 22 and 12 maps are in the pool... Also I think it also applies to like the last 3-4 played maps or something like that? So there is basically no problem at all with this.
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DBD doesn't have a 'ranked' game mode. Nothing in DBD resembles 'Ranks'. MMR certainly isn't 'ranks', because you're not supposed to try and climb it. It's nothing more than a passive, hidden mechanic to attempt to separate newbies from vets, that's all. Everything else that could be mistaken for 'ranking' is merely a personal progress system.
It's insane to me that instead of trying to solve the problem (maps) people would rather instil more restrictions on themselves to prevent other players from gaining an advantage. Speaks volumes to the petty mentality of this playerbase. The idea of 'having fun' is a distant memory, second to the far more pressing issue of making things harder for other players as much as possible.
I'd like to play on the Nostromo map because it's the freaking Nostromo, so I'm gonna bring a map offering, whether it helps me or not. Just as I'd like to Play Xenomorph because I love the Alien movies. "Sorry, can't do that, Steve is worried you might have a 5% greater chance of killing him, even though he's going to kill himself on hook if you sneeze in his direction anyway".
I mean, isn't that what offerings are for anyway? You have Shrouds, Oaks, Coins, Reagents, Blueprints. Offerings designed to give you an advantage in the game, and you spend your single offering slot and your consumable offering to get that advantage. Why can't we simply accept that Map Offerings fall under the same category? Your particular build and playstyle is going to have a far greater effect on the outcome of the match anyway. And if there are certain offerings that offer too great of an advantage, then fix those maps!
Solve the cause, not the symptom, because all that does is remove player choice.
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At the very least Sacrificial Wards should be refunded if no one used a map offering.
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Map offerings are sometimes not with the purpose to bully others, but because some people play gimmicky builds that can only have the slightest chance of success on certain maps (Mirror addons on Myers, for example). It's a tough topic, honestly, since offerings in general are such an outdated thing and even they said in some recent AMA that they're looking into something to make offerings more appealing since now it's only bloodpoints one way or another, maps and that's pretty much all you see.
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