http://dbd.game/killswitch
Why not let trapper spawn with all his traps?
First its nice to see the main posterboy of the game finally get some updates. However i just cant understand why not letting trapper spawn with all his traps?
Comments
-
I know they want it to be a “simple killer” but giving him traps dosent make him any more complicated it just removes having to spend half the match collecting and placing traps. I know when i started i would have LOVED having all my traps as trapper
1 -
10 traps around 3 Gens, welcome to another SM.
23 -
Seems like BHVR is the under the impression Trapper is fine. Probably see this too strong. I doubt that. Trapper pretty much has to run CI to stand a chance unless they want to immediately set up a 3 gen. Collecting Traps takes a lot of time Trapper does not have.
2 -
The correct thing to do against trapper is similar to hag: just have one person dedicated to getting rid of traps, so even if he places them in one are you can just waste his time with reaming them and so on... Trapper already puts all his traps around a certain area, that's kind of his thing being an area defense killer... And with survivors getting out of traps way too fast if you re further away he is basically forced to play this way... I don't think it would be that much of an issue, you get a warning when he is approaching and you can just run in a straight line to the area he has not been trapping...
2 -
It would empower his most obnoxious playstyles (3-gen protection, basement camping, and proxy camping around strong hooks after first down with a million traps) and would push people away from learning how to play him properly as they wouldn't need to consider their traps carefully anymore. It's a bad idea for buffing him, and while the buff he's getting here is not exactly what I personally want, it is extremely useful.
This is going to be a great update for Trapper and I'm looking forward to playing him more frequently than I currently do.
21 -
if trapper sack became basekit, and I never though i'd say this, they should reduce his traps back down to 8.
2 -
Traps that are way easier to take care of.
5 -
Y’all all sayin its gonna be a SM again
just reduce traps by 2 ☕️
2 -
I have concluded most people here don’t play Killer at all. The idea that traps are comparable to drones is absurd, but the comment gets upvoted.
9 -
You'd think Trapper having an addon that does exactly that but with a major downside would make BHVR's position on the subject very clear and easy to understand but expecting basic comprehension from the average DBD player is too much asking it seems.
2 -
Not really. Maybe right at the start but if a Trapper player is dedicated to play in that way, then nothing will stop them from doing it.
But I think it's alright now that traps will also spawn closer to gens. This might actually end up with him no longer being arguably the worst killer in the game. Now we can call Freddy "Pay to Lose" in good faith.
1 -
That's exactly the point. A dedicated Trapper player will do it, but players that want the path of least resistance (which is to say, most players) won't be encouraged to pursue these strategies because they'd have to go pretty far out of their way to do it.
Think about Artist, if you'll indulge an example. Artist is a well designed killer with a pretty high skill ceiling, fun to play... but hard to learn. You could spend the time it takes to figure out timings and distances, practice your predictions and cross-map shots... or you could drop a bird at a loop and force the survivor to run for a semi-easy M1. It's clear what a lot of players prefer to do. The same goes for Knight, albeit to a slightly different degree.
It'd be the same with Trapper. You could learn the optimal trap spots and predict survivor pathing, spreading your web as thin as you can make it while maintaining your own proximity to the traps... or you could just dump all your stuff around your first hook in the basement.
It's not just about what's possible, it's about what's easy. It should be difficult for Trapper to do these things, and making them easier won't actually help him in terms of overall health.
4 -
But in a way they are comparable since both are defensive tools, similar to how people compare Blight and Billy because both of their powers are used for mobility and chase
2 -
Fair enough. But I honestly have my doubts that this would make such a big difference. If you get someone in the basement, then that person is screwed anyway. I have never seen a Trapper fail to do that and thought: "If they had all their traps, then this would have worked." Either someone can unhook them immediately or they are going to be locked down there. This wouldn't change with Trapper having all his traps at hand. It would play out in the exact same way.
If I want to play around a 3gen, then that's what I'm going to do. And if I want to drag someone down the basement and lock the whole place down, then I am going to do that too. This doesn't take a whole lot of effort. Artist is a fairly hard killer to play to her full potential. Trapper on the other hand? If you know what you're doing, then you can switch to these strategies at any point in the game pretty easy. With or without all traps at hand.
Also, there aren't a whole lot of 'optimal' trap spots left. You'll be happy, if survivors don't see your traps from miles away. But a survivor that looks out even a little won't be caught by traps that you don't force them into.
1 -
One is undisputedly the 2nd best Killer in the game and the other is a very sad husk of what he used to be. It’s like comparing an intramural player and MLB player because they both play baseball.
1 -
In you're example its as if you're comparing a master blight to a beginner as at the end of the day they are given the exact same tools, its just one of them has more experience
Blight and Billy are different in their own ways but their power are still similar, as mentioned before, since they both provide aid in chase and mobility. One is just obviously better than the other but that doesn't stop them from being compared.
If you want a better example of 2 killers that are compared to each other, Nemesis and Xeno. Both have short ranged attack, and they both have their ups and downs.
2 -
What is that even supposed to mean. Even as a killer player the trappers traps are way and I mean WAY easier to take care of compared to SM. YOU compared trapper to being another skull merchant when it wouldn't even be the case if he spawned with all his traps.
3 -
He can deny 10 windows/pallets around 3 Gens.
If survivors disarm traps, he will go back for them and Gens
If survivors dont disarm, survivors will take hit, then heal, before going back to Gens.
Or able to down 1 survivor and hook in basement, then he can set 10 traps around.
Certainly it will not as pain as SM in 3 Gens or Bubba in camping. But people will use the easiest way to win, 10 traps around 3 Gens and basement are always the easier than planning survivors' path.
I have 10 ideas to buff him since I main Trapper, but starts with all traps is not one of them.
0 -
there is no good reason.
it's just a left over from when dbd was an entirely different and much slower game.
people created this scary boogeyman of trapper with all his traps and refuse to accept that he just ain't all that.
people think other people will see an 8 or 10 at the corner and fundamentally change their brain chemistry so they will play differently.
people understand that trapper with a good web of traps set up is kinda scary, but I guess they don't wanna play against that and want him to waste a couple of 3 or 4 gens setting it up. completely ignoring that hag already exists and does it way better than he ever could from the simple fact her traps recycle.
we already have the anti camping thing set up... we know we getting something for 3 gen aswell. no reason to pretend any of these 2 matter here.
whatever other thing people bring up... I have yet to hear any good reason against giving trapper all his traps. it's all a variation of one of the above things or "I don't like it"
bhvr could literally give trapper all his soon to be 10 traps, and all it would do, is make him a nice mid to high B tier killer, I think. could be overextimating it.
2 -
No idea considering hag spawns with all of her's
3 -
I can't think of a request as common that I hate more than this one. Having all traps: -
- Directly encourages basement Trapper, which is both incredibly boring to play and to face.
- Directly encourages 3 gen Trapper, which is both incredibly boring to play and the face.
The changes BHVR have made are far healthier and fun for everyone. You can play the boring Betty Swollocks lockdown Trapper if you want, but please don't try and shunt the character down that road for everyone.
1 -
Maybe not spawn with but able to carry would be nice.
1 -
so are we pretending that players can't do those already or that seeing a bigger number would make people play in a different way than with a smaller number if everything else was the same? do you honestly think people will just decide to play is a way they think it's boring?
hag already exists and it's not even played like that (on the rare cases I see her). it would very likely be the same for trapper. the option will always be there, as it already is, but it's both boring AND honestly quite bad. barely anyone will bother with it.
there's better characters to hold a 3 gen and the basement.
You can play the boring marathon runner Trapper if you want, but please don't try and shunt the character down that road for everyone
2 -
Re: "do you think people would play the boring way": Yes. Yes, I do, for good reason.
I said this in another response, but look at Artist and Knight. What are those two killers notorious for? Dropping a bird/guard at a loop to force survivors to run away for an eventual M1. That is not the most effective or most fun way to play those two killers, but it is the easiest, and that's why so many players flock to it (no pun intended, on Artist's part).
Players will follow the path of least resistance even when it's optimising (ish) the fun out of their experience. Trapper, currently, circumvents this by needing to juggle his traps, thus leading to careful trap placements that aren't all concentrated around the first hook you get being the path of least resistance.
Trapper does need help with his early game, and this new change probably won't fix it outright, but giving him all his traps from the start isn't a good idea.
2 -
boring way =/= way they personally find boring
I doubt the people putting birds at loops find it boring. they may actually have more fun in a different way, but I doubt they are doing it in a boring way just because.
I also don't see an issue with an "easy way" existing. in this case, it already does anyway. they just gotta wanna do it. (and while basement is, I don't think the 3 gen is particularly strong)
like... we all love to snipe people, but i'll still throw a hatchet at the window and be happy about it. unless I miss the window... then I'll be annoyed I missed the easy shot.
survivors giving me the easy m2 at hook as ph? I'll take it.
currently... it's easy to do a 3 gen or basement trapper. it's just not fun. and that doesn't change with more traps.
you can set up the 3 gen more effectively, but the strenght of the 3 gen is the same.
1 -
You've literally proved your own counter point. You can already do it. There is no need to buff Trapper to make it easier to do it.
The current buffs: -
- Faster movement speed after setting a trap
- Traps spawn near generators
Both encourage Trapper into a more patrol oriented playstyle.
If you want to be basement Trapper, you can, but it should absolutely require you to commit your build and/or trap collection to it, NOT be a basekit strategy you can do out of the gate.
3 -
If they rework Iridescent Stone which would make this much too oppressive, I could see it be a possibility, but even then, Trapper has never been a bad performer in terms of average kill rates, and I also wouldn't say his traps really lend themselves well to buffs. While there is some possibility of playing around traps, they can just randomly catch people without much of any skill involved. The best survivor player can in theory die to the worst Trapper player in ways they couldn't ever to, say, the worst Wraith player. And insofar that converts into downs, it can be very impactful, especially around hooks. There is a certain balance to be kept with bear traps, particularly given what people have also pointed out with regards to trapping the hell out of a 3-gen cluster or a hook. To be able to do this reliably and without a real risk (as opposed to Trapper Sack) would yield less desirable gameplay more often.
I think the Haste buff they are going to be implementing is pretty great. It doesn't make traps themselves stronger, and it doesn't do too much outside of chases at all, but it improves an aspect of Trapper's gameplay that I have always thought would be the best way to buff him - make setting traps mid-chase more viable. That way Trapper can actually chase survivors from the get-go and isn't incentivized as obligatorily to play a macro-style game merely by the nature of his ability, where you first have to spend time going around picking up and putting down traps strategically, rather being able to chase right off the bat and tactically pick and set up traps as you go. For this reason, I think it would actually be better to spawn traps close to pallets and windows, not gens, and increase trap pick-up and setting speeds (for pick-up, you should be able to do it from a certain increased distance, say 5 meter, with Trapper entering an animation where he speeds up and picks up the trap automatically; for placement, they at the very least have to make the setting speed add-ons apply to the entire setting animation, including the bending-down and standing-back-up parts, not just the actual arming animation).
Another buff that I think would be great for Trapper is making it so that the time to escape traps increases with the distance between Trapper and the caught survivor. Whether this be achieved by having the actual escape interaction speed or the escape chances scale with distance I don't know, but I know that being able to capitalize on survivors getting caught in traps across the map should be encouraged. That would make it much less unattractive to not play area control, allowing traps set up across the map to do more than at best take a health state.
0 -
Basement go wroooooommmm.
That's why.
0 -
You can already do it means that giving him all his traps doesn't change that.
Meaning it has no effect on it.
How did you miss that?
The commitment is the exact same regardless... you have no point here
0 -
You can already do that. Easily
0 -
I'll try to be less combative, cause we're at risk of this becoming a pointless argument.
However your point it doesn't make a difference is incorrect for 2 reasons: -
- Having to go collect your traps slows down the setup of basement Trapper and 3 gen Trapper. He has to walk out to collect his traps, which means survivors have chances to see what hes doing, and have time to interrupt his setup while he is out collecting.
- Freeing up the need to take an add-on for this power means Trapper can take other add-ons to support his 3 gen and Basement setup, making it even more potent than it already is.
You're correct that Trapper can set up the same way without all traps available, but the simple need to walk across the map and get his traps makes this strategy less effective.
Thus far there is not a single good argument for giving Trapper all his traps.
- If it doesn't make that big a difference, why bother adding it?
- If it does make a difference, why would you want to push him further towards this play style?
The changes BHVR have made were good changes. Before we've even had a decent chance to explore it, we're already trying to scrap it to go back to pushing this annoying playstyle instead.
It's just not making sense to me to say "screw it, let's just give up and make him even better at locking down basement and a 3-gen".
1 -
Maybe because trapper and hag aren't the same killer? You'd think this would be an obvious question since their traps are entirely different.
1 -
But it needs time investment. It has a downside.
2 -
I'll bite the bait here, you are right they are different. One allows a killer to traverse the map in the blink of an eye, has a far larger trap radius that affects survivors and blends into map environments much easier. The other gets triggered by the killer unless you are running an addon, is bright white unless you are running an addon, and did I forget to mention, it's a 50,50 the survivor escapes the trap before you get there..... unless you are running an addon. There is a reason trapper is F tier and Hag is Low A regardless of whether the trapper tries to run a basement build
0 -
doesn't make that big a difference for basement trapper. barely makes any. you can do it with 2 or 3 traps.
it does make a big difference if you wanna play a less base defense trapper. or a more offensive trapper. which is currently exceedingly hard for no reason.
giving him his traps does not push towards this play style of basement. not more than it already does by his power being what it is.
if you think it does, then you gotta demonstrate it. cause it's just your opinion otherwise.
when you say ""screw it, let's just give up and make him even better at locking down basement and a 3-gen"". it makes no real sense to me.
1- he can already do those perfectly easy with what he has already. so almost nothing would actually be changing about that, besides how fast he can set up the 3 gen. but the strenght of the 3 gen is the same.
2- other killers are better at both. so why would someone use trapper over them if that's what they wanna do?
3- his 3 gen is overrated. you just learn the safe path and run early. then run back when he leaves. and you can take the time to disarm the traps, he probably can't afford the time to both chase you and rearm the traps. it's better than most, but hardly an actual issue even on solo queue. it's survivor favored assuming no one screws up, which is why you never even see it unlike chess merchant.
granted the pendulum swings a lot if someone does screw up.
4- we got the anti facecamp thing and we will eventually get an anti 3 gen thing. those should not be an issue to be looked on an individual killer level, unless it reaches chess merchant levels.
5- basement should be dangerous. it's what I was told when I suggested basement should get a second entrance with limited use so... there we go...
5.5- it's not like I don't have an issue with basement being too strong, but that's a general thing with the game and not just a trapper thing. some killers are just better at taking advantage of it. bubba still being the best at it.
0 -
no... takes 2 or 3 traps. he can already carry that.
0 -
Then do that. Every game. Tell me how it went.
Post edited by radiantHero23 on0 -
probably poorly. it's bad as a strat.
also boring and I do not want to.
0 -
It's the best way to play Trapper currently.
0 -
Because having 10 traps in hand easily allows Trapper to trap up the first survivor he hooks, doesn't even need to be basement. That's the biggest complaint with Hag, that she can place all her traps around the first survivor hooked. If Trapper has all his traps in hand most players will go for easiest method of trapping up first hook and then Trapper will end up with dumb nerfs instead of the good buffs he deserves.
I think the current changes are good start in helping Trapper but there's other buffs I'd like to see that I think would be better than starting with all traps in hand.
-Have all traps start armed, this will be great now that they start near objectives. It would help Trapper in the early game since so much of it is just walking around picking up/setting the traps. It would also encourage players to consider leaving the open trap in spawn area rather than going around collecting them just to trap up a certain section for late game. The add on to arm traps every 30 seconds would still be useful for when survivors disarm traps.
-Fix the nerfs he received from map reworks/new maps by making traps blend in more with different maps and add more ground cover so he isn't limited in trap placement. Currently it is so easy for survivors to avoid a trap since they stick out and tend to be in the same places.
-If a survivor steps in a trap they should always receive deep wound so it punishes injured survivors for not paying attention just as much as healthy survivors.
-Make it take set amount of seconds to escape a trap instead of being RNG amount of attempts.
0 -
A lot of the "bad" killers just don't have the capacity to be buffed to A tier. Clown, trickster, trapper, legion, any of those being A tier would be awful to play against.
0 -
I think he deserves it. He won't be close to strong level even if he had that.
C'mon it's Trapper, give him some better treatment whether you like him or not.
0 -
I disagree
0 -
I would love to see it any other way.
Basement Trapper / lock down Trapper it is.
0
