http://dbd.game/killswitch
Nerf Made for this, Hope and windows of opportunity
It is basically unbelievable that this is still in the game. Any killer who only runs at 4,4 meters will basically have no chance to catch up anymore in the endgame. If someone sets up dark theory a survivor will be faster then the killer.
Dead by Daylight became very stale lately as every survivor (at least in the upper ranks) runs the same boring build:
- Made for this
- Resiliance
- Hope
- Windows of opportunity
It is absolutely attrocious to play against a team where every single survivor has these perks equipped. The fun of the game are mostly chases. But having one side basically fast run, fast vault + seeing every pallet and window is absolutely annoying. That and the fact they often play in discord teams is gives them way too much advantage and information.
I am pretty well aware that it is the object of the survivors to burn as much of the killers time as they can to repair the generators but the balance is completly off when you run into a party of 4 which is only running these specific perks.
My suggestion:
- Made for this gives you only 2 % haste
- Hope only 5 %
- Windows of opporunity reduced to 18 meters + only showing the first nearest pallet and first nearest window, not all of them and remove seeing dropped pallets alltogether.
Finally dont allow haste to stack anymore. As this game progresses and gets more and more updates and perks this will get out of hand. Nobody wants to see a killer running at 35 % haste (devour hope/noed, machine learning, rapid brutality, play with your food) one shotting survivors.
The fact, that hope and made for this have no limit of usage makes this even more overpowered as all of the killers haste in this example will have time limits and run out.
Call me a noob or whatsoever but the devs need to keep in mind that not every player is a demi god in chases. This boring setup drains the fun out of the game.
Comments
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If a 4man swf with discord who tries to win use windows of Opportunity then they basically gift you a perk slot... Because they could just call out which pallets got used... I think Windows is just a band aid fix for unclear visibility of objects on maps... Let me explain, with all the clutter and overwhelming amount plants and what not on many maps the visibility of tiles is decreased by quite a lot, remember when borgo first came out and you couldn't even tell if there was a pallet or not? It is similar with many maps, where there is so much trash around it, it obstructs the visibility of pallets and windows. So the perk kind of helps with this issue, it would be better if you could just see the tiles properly without the need for the perk, but it also helps solo players it know which tiles got already used, therefore I wouldn't nerf.
The problem with your nerf idea for this perk is basically that by only showing the nearest one you might run into a dead zone accidentally, I think the overview is fine. Better players tend to know where the tiles are anyway and don't need to rely on the perk, the still get value from it by knowing what has been used...
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Throwing Nerf cards in brief:
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I kind of agree that nerfing it the way I proposed could lead survivors into a dead zone. However I still think this is more fair from a killers perspective instead of having to loop every tile in the game because you can make up a plan/path to run. On the other hand when I am on a new map I like to use it too. You are absolutely right that its hard to find things to work with on new maps. I still think windows of opportunity is too strong the way it is but my suggestion might be a little too much. Maybe a little nerf would do the trick
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If you just take the chase then this is on you anyway, it is the killers choice to decide if taking a chase is worth it and if a certain area is too strong to chase in or not worth the time, all windows does is show survivors certain strong areas to loop in that experienced survivors know anyway...
If the chase takes too long just break the pallet and find someone else, on the other hand the value windows provides players cannot really be seen, because you don't know if the survivor would not have done the same thing regardless, the information is nice and all, but after some time you know where the tiles are and so on...
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Haste just needs to not stack and WoO is perfectly fine.
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Ok, but let’s nerf pain resonance, deadlock, sloppy butcher, lethal pursuer, nowhere to hide
Because is boring seeing the same build every match, right?
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Nah. Only survs need to adapt, every killer issue is legit issue.
/s
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It is your decision to take a chase thats true, but you can't drop every chase because of a loop being nearby. This leads up the issue that many loops are connected to each other which makes 2 out of 3 chases a very long one (if you don't use a killer who can counter loops by his own strength).
Windows of Opportunity does prevent the survivor from doing mistakes in the chase because they can see far ahead whether a loop is safe to run to or to choose another one. If he simply presses 'w' because he knows the next window or pallet is nearby mindgames don't work either. Might be a desert island opinion here but at least I do struggle with these far too long lasting chases when playing killer.
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May request you run Zanshin tactics then? So you can drop the chase if they reach such tiles?
If you really have a survivor that knows what he is doing in connecting tiles and basically not dropping pallets you need to chase someone else, unless you wanna learn something, because this guy is gonna run you for 7 min straight. At that point it is not even windows...
You don't drop chase because of a loop, you drop chase because of a certain setup, if you have a long wall into a rock loop into another long wall you can never chase there, or you gonna throw the game doing it. That's what I meant not like they reach a pallet and you just leave.
They see a pallet and a window, they need to know the tile anyway to be sure whether it is safe or not, so how exactly does the perk help there? All it does is show them that the pallet has not been used, most survivors know what tile it is when they are looking at it, at least on the maps without obstruction. This just sounds like the survivor would not know anyway what tiles are around him, he has eyes, he can see windows and pallets, he knows where jungle gyms are, it may help him to find filler loops... But it is really not that strong as you're making it out to be... Having a survivor know what tiles are around to actually loop/get looped is really not a problem...
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Its a survivor meta, its going to take at least 6 years before it goes away. BHVR must determine the balance of MFT over these years, as they do with all things, 100% including alien.
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mft is still game breaking for qeaker m1 killers. Their chases are already incredibly long, and even a minor speedboost boost can get survivors safely to another loop and extend the chase even longer.
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You rely entirely on the survivors' mistakes? Don't try to improve your skills so as not to depend on the mistakes of survivors?
You can exploit your enemy's mistakes, but this does not mean always relying on the enemy's mistakes and then expecting the same result
Try to recognize your own mistakes in chase so that you do not repeat them, and do not blame everything but yourself
I think in the future we will see a post requesting that the Nerf screen for players be completely black
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I get it, but other perks excluding Hope were never a big deal. Dark Theory was always laughable. Imo haste not stacking will keep those survivor perks strong without them being that insane. If that’s your biggest fear there are plenty of exhaustion addons and perks for killer, and you can advocate for the addition of new ones! Maybe one that once you Blood Lust the survivor in chase suffers exhaustion for X time.
Think of counters more often instead of nerfs, that’s the problem with DbD and why it gets so stale so quickly. People just want nerfs nerfs and nerfs instead of counters.
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The good ol' "nerf this because it's too strong against weaker killers and nerf that because it's too helpful for weaker survivors (solo q)"
"I still think this is more fair from a killers perspective" no joke you want the game to be balanced around the weakest killers and the strongest survivors (wannabe comp swfs)
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You are not really adding much value to the discussion.
I always try to improve my skills as I think most people try to. Your skills however won't be enough for a lot of loops as we all know how to loop the jungle gyms and shack to maximum efficiency. The killers base strength won't help most killers. So you can either try to mindgame them hoping they will fall for it or bloodlusting them.
Bloodlusting however won't work when they know where a pallet is to drop it in your way all the time. From what I've seen survivors who dont use windows of opportunities don't last as long as those who do, as they might run into a zone where the pallet is already gone without their knowing.
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I get what you your intention is but exhaustion won't work on hope. Further imo it's not good to create a build to counter one specific build or perk. There are antifacecamping and antitunneling perks but it still remained an issue which now get's changed with the upcomming patch. So basically no one wants to equip anti perks like this just because of the abuse of the system. So the system got changed. Reassurance will be completly useless with the upcomming patch but we don't mind because a much bigger problem got solved. What I'm trying to say is: Running a counter build isn't fun, it's not gonna work a lot of times. Equipping them often feels like having to counter abuse of the system or bad behaviour instead of doing something whats acutally helpfull to the team/killer or just fun to do.
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I want an overall balanced game.
Thats not much to ask init?
If you don't balance around 'weaker killers' people will eventually stop using them which makes the game even more stale. I don't think it will be much fun having people to main only the strongest killers and run into them eventually in every game.
It will simply shrink the pool of killers to be seen in the game. Nobody wants to loose 25 games in a row. So people will leave the 'weak killers' behind at some point.
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Hope is a fine perk. It's an end game perk so it's supposed to be powerful because you need to reach end game for it to work. If you nerf hope in any way the perk will be go back to not being used at all. The perk can be still be attractive even if haste didn't stack, I saw it often between the gap of time of the buff it got last year and MFT this year. People are massively complaining about it now because of MFT (rightfully I guess).
It's the same with For the People, it's an attractive perk on its own, just the combo with buckle up makes it OP. On its own the perk is great already and does not need any tweak. Some perks don't need nerf in this core, but just remove the interaction they have with each other (example: object of obsession and distortion don't work together)
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Telling people to "watch their mistakes " is all fine and dandy until you're honest enough to understand that survivors have way too many perks and items to erase a play / mindgame you've won for free.
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Successfully sneak up on a survivor with GF/Myers? Survivor gets bailed by sprint burst.
Successfully pull off a mindgame on a tile? Survivor presses E and gets saved by DH. Or click an extra button if you have a medkit with styptic.
You've succesfully zoned a survivor into a deadzone? WOO+MFT+Resi allowed them to know the pallet was dropped so they b-lined to the loop with a pallet thanks to the 3%.
There's a plethora of other scenarios where the killer makes 0 mistakes, plays as perfectly as he can, yet the survivor gets to erase a chase with the press of a button or thanks to perks giving them permanent extrasensory perception.
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Balancing the game around the weakest killers and the sweatiest survivor teams is not a good idea.
The game needs to be balanced against its biggest player base, which is casual people. Without them, there wouldn't be much of a game.
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mft is a broken perk for survivor. dont expect a nerf for a year minimum.
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Nobody wants to loose 25 games in a row
So you are trying to say we have to buff soloQ and nerf strongest killers?
It's consensus, that strength-wise it's something like this:
SWF/S-tier killers
all the rest of killers
soloQ
(you can expand on specifics, there can be an argument that S-tier are stronger or weaker then full SWF, but overall this is it). Yet the thing you are responding to is basically "Yes I want game to be balanced around 4man SWF vs weakest killers". That goes directly against "I want an overall balanced game."
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You don't seem to want an overall balanced game, you seem to want a game balanced around the weak side for killers but the strong side for survivors, meaning strong killers would absolutely obliterate survivors and playing sweaty swf would be the only viable option for survivors.
It sounds like you're only taking into account the killer side and don't realize that survivors aren't bots. As you said, nobody wants to loose 25 games in a row, so why should solo survivors and casual swfs be miserable and left behind so weaker killers can 4k every couple games against comp swf and call that "balanced" ?
Making weaker killers more competitive should be done by buffing them, not weakening survivors (just like we shouldn't nerf every killer to the ground until solos can escape 1 game out of 2).
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As it is partially right what you say, this discussion has gone off topic. I want what I wrote at the start. These perks must be nerfed. The sinergy of these three in particular or even worse combined with resiliance is simply off balance. The insta down add on for huntress has been nerfed because it was too strong, this is the same for me. I play survivor and killer 50/50 so I'm not taking sides here because I want a 4k every game or whatsoever.
Somebody above said it right. DBD is about expecting movements. That's why the nurse can be hard to counter because you don't exactly know where she will appear. If survivor run's at different speed levels while vaulting faster permanent while seeing every pallet and window the killer easily can misread whether he gets a hit or not. So you gotta avoid muscle memory while trying to mindgame someone who has more space for mistakes because as I said is faster at everything and can see his escape routes all the time.
From my point of view it is too strong and is especially a misary for slow killers.
I agree that weaker killers should be buffed if they simply are too weak to be competitive as they (finally) did with homeboy trapper. But when they add something to the game (like mft) and the balance gets kicked off, then they also should nerf it (like they did a lot in the past)
I dont demand easy games, I demand not being annoyed by every chase. Killer and survivor have a limited room for mistakes in the chase. A perk combination with a sinergy this high increases the space a survivor gains to an unfair level.
I can't remember a single game where not at least 2 people where using this combination. Often it's even 3 and about 15 % of the games all 4 survivors run a build like that.
I get it's popular, it's safe, it's great from a survivor perspective. Gives you a lot of second chances you normally wouldn't get. But it also means every chase is a drag for the killer. IDK how it's going in your part of the world but at my location there is a constant lack of killers 24/7 because they are annoyed. I can relate. I play less and less killer because I don't enjoy it anymore.
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If you have such problem with those perks right now, how about equipping Gen defense en mass and then tunneling one out asap? I know it s not fun, but it works. Play Nurse or Blight. They don't care.
If we really want to do anything about this stale meta, then we need to fix loops. WOO is not the problem, it's how tiles connect. Also WOO is used to see stuff on maps which are visually overloaded like Borgo or Dvarka.
MFT should just not have the endurance effect. And maybe turned down to 2%.
Hope is fine with 7% because it's just during the endgame. But it should not stack.
Resilience should be for everything but gens.
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