http://dbd.game/killswitch
I can't wait for the inevitable nerf to broken OP survivor meta
MFT, Adrenaline, Buckle up, Resilience, Dead Hard, FTP and WoO. Every match, it's always the same perks over and over and over and over over again. It's soooo BORING. Truly the most boring and lamest meta to ever exist in the history of DBD. MFT + Dead hard + WoO + Resilience = Infinite loops, wallhacks, speed and second chances. Buckle up + FTP is BROKEN OP slugging is completely nullified. Anti hook mechanic is coming soon and killers will lose yet another strategy but survivors will continue to make the game as stale as possible. Gens getting completed and rushed in less than 5 minutes. There is no way in hell you'll win as killer when you're mid-high MMR and playing against decent survivors.
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It's the same every match because 95% of survivor perks are terrible. Perks like resilience, windows, adrenaline, dead hard, etc aren't even overpowered and I can't believe people truly think they are. People use those perks every game because there are very few perks worth using. The only problematic survivor perks are MFT and the Buckle Up/FTP combo. Nearly everything else has already been nerfed into uselessness. Anything else is just people whining for the sake of it. Are we just supposed to run meme perks every game?
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I'm going to quote one of my favorite comments here made by @Firellius to a topic similar to yours that explains the reasoning for your complaint thoroughly and why this stale meta exists:
"I'd say this is because the majority of survivor perks are really, really, -really- bad. Ranging from 'does nothing of significance' (Corrective Action, Diversion, Fast Track, Friendly Competition) to 'really niche and unlikely to be impactful' (Boil Over, Breakdown, Kinship, Left Behind) to 'actively detrimental' (Calm Spirit, Autodidact, Potential Energy, most boons).
There's relatively few that are consistent and valuable, which causes them to rocket to the top of the charts.
I think a while back, Otz had asked his community to tally how often they saw certain perks in their matches, and despite each match having four times as many survivors as killers, there were more survivor perks than killer perks that had a 0% pickrate.
There's just a TON of dead weight in the game with perks that just have no real reason to exist. I do think it's solvable, but it would require a colossal balancing patch."
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MFT is also the reason half the perks you listed are even meta.
Without MFT I’m sure Resilience and Dead Hard would fall in popularity.
Nerf MFT and then buff the really bad perks. But fair buffs, not Buckle Up level buffs.
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Resilience, ftp, dead hard and adrenaline are fine and need no touching
Woo is used only by bots who cant even learn map layouts (read what xernoton said below)
Mft and buckle up need to go
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WHy so dramatic, outside of MFT and mft+hope stacking all these perks are fine, you could argue that resilience doesn't need a gen speed buff (maybe)
sometimes I use buckle up it's kinda hard to pull off, you need perfect timing, that person doing it is not progressing gens and injure themselves
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Broken: MFT, Buckle Up and to a degree Resilience because of its synergy with different perks.
Not broken: Adrenaline, DH and FTP. Adrenaline is a symptom of a larger problem called "gen times". DH is completely fine now and FTP will be fine when Buckle Up gets nerfed.
WoO is in a weird spot. It can somewhat negate the skill gap between mediocre and good survivors and is mostly used as a crutch for subpar looping. I would like to see it nerfed, so that it goes on a 25 seconds cooldown 5 seconds after the chase begins and then repeats.
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Absolutely disagree with resilience being broken, but 100% agree with everything else, especially what you said about woo
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How does chase oriented perks become boring?
To me the only boring thing to go against as a killer, is when they bringing perks that increasing the gen speed repair.
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Resilience on its own is fine. But MFT, Hope, Adrenaline, Toolboxes and so on have way too strong of a synergy with it. Which is why I think it is problematic. If all of these (or at least MFT and Adrenaline / gen times) get nerfed, then I'll be fine with it.
As it stands though, it is part of the reason why survivors can brute force their way through especially weaker killers when they stay injured and rush gens.
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nerfing woo is a mistake, you need too much playtime to learn map layouts in this game, like 500-1000+ hours, it's too much to ask for average players, woo is the perfect casual perk without MFT it's not that big of a deal
it's so popular because survivors have 100+ useless/niche perks
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I do agree that WoO is in a weird spot because it doesn't guarantee any concrete value and the amount of value you can get from it is upto your knowledge of DbD. But the very high pickrate does say something.
However I think the nerf you suggested would throw this perk back into the void where nobody even touched it. Before the buff it had a cooldown of 20 seconds once you performed a fast vault and its pickrate in this state was abysmal. Wouldn't your nerf make it even less appealing than its older version. Unless I'm missing something?
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I somewhat agree. But that is not what people use WoO for, let's be honest. My suggestion would still allow you to use it in that way.
The main difference is that it wouldn't work as a crutch anymore.
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This says a lot more about the average player using WoO than anything. It's always been a useful perk in that sense, the fact that when it had a cool down the pickrate was 0 shows that the average player has literally zero game sense and pays no attention to their surroundings. Which is why now the value it gives to them is so high. Just bring ultimate weapon and see most windows users crumble as soon as they get blinded. They will loop the tile they're at and then get lost in the middle of nowhere
Which is why it should get nerfed: too much value for mid players who'd be otherwise lost without it (get good)
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If we are nerfing things because they are boring there are a laundry list of things on killer side I'd love to see changed.
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out of curiosity whats on the list?
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Killer mains crying about "op" survivor perks is the very definition of irony.
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Ok if you want game changes that’s fine but please be careful with titles
this comes off very entitled
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I am curious myself. Outside of perhaps Sloppy I can't think of any killer PERK that needs nerfed.
Sloppy I think is fine. I would be fine if hemmorage was removed since healing was nerfed.
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this. The problem with the current meta is that they not only have nothing else to run but that they are good when combined with MFT
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WoO was never a bad perk. It just wasn't something most people needed or wanted to give up one of their other perks for. If you asked people back then, why they didn't use it, most would have told you something among the lines of: "I know maps, so I don't need it."
But now WoO has a different use. It's a crutch for pretty much everyone who can follow simple directions. Run from tile to tile, pre drop pallets, that you can't loop around very well and repeat. You could be a complete beginner and still get the results of someone with 2k hours more experience. Meaning, it deletes a large part of the skill expression that goes into looping.
WoO also does pretty much the opposite of what many people argue, that it should do. If you rely on WoO then you don't learn maps. After all, why would you? You have a perk that makes this obsolete. My idea was to make it a perk, that would still be useful in chase and help you learn maps but would also require you to do some things right in order to really get value out of it.
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Thank you for explaining your point of view. I got what you said more clearly now. I can see how WoO has the potential to be really powerful since some only use it to autopilot from one loop to another and nothing more.
Though I still don't think WoO is in the same level of problematic as old dead hard, old coh, current mft etc. and believe that the general standard for "OP" perks has been substantially lowered by the community. I think this is because some people have been playing longer than others and newer players are going to have a different vision and lower tolerance. Seeing what survivors could pull off back in the day, I can't really call out WoO as "This is so busted and OP!" like the title. It would be disingenuous.
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If someone is using WoO to run from tile to tile, pre-dropping, then they're using the perk to the detriment of the team. Creating dead zones and wasting all the resources in one chase isn't something someone with 2k hours would do. At least I'd hope not.
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its a survivor perk. will they be nerfed? yes. will it be soon like they're claiming? no.
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I have a little over 3K hours on this game. I pretty much know the layout of every map and where pallets will generate. So I don't use WoO for that. I use it because I have no idea if the rando in my team was throwing every pallet during a chase or not. It helps me know if I'm running to a zone a rando used to drop every pallet.
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I want to go back in time, like 2018 or 2019.
Just so I can tell everyone that DS is now one of the least used perks and people are complaining about Windows of Opportunity
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😭😭😭
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WoO was never a bad perk. It just wasn't something most people needed or wanted to give up one of their other perks for. If you asked people back then, why they didn't use it, most would have told you something among the lines of: "I know maps, so I don't need it."
That qualifies it to me as being a 'pretty bad perk'. It's the same reason why Visionary is considered F-tier. All it provides is intel, and the intel is something you already have if you're sufficiently familiar with the game.
But now WoO has a different use.
It can't have a different use because it gained no different functionality. It didn't get a new synergy, it didn't get a new function, it didn't get changed in any way to how it can be used.
What happened is that its competition died a violent death and WoO was just left over in the aftermath.
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Didn't dead hard get a nerfed?
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The "meta" is only played and used in specific situations
MFT- Chase oriented, Injury based
WOO- Chase oriented
Resilience- Gen oriented, Injury based
DH- Chase oriented, Injury based
No Aura perk
No Mither is also not seen... even though it synergizes well with other injury based perk
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"What happened is that its competition died a violent death and WoO was just left over in the aftermath."
This.👏
This is also the only reason why some started considering Adrenaline, Hope, Resilience etc. "OP" all of a sudden now even though they haven't been touched for years...
It would be like calling Jolt/Surge OP now because it's the top picked Killer perk when in reality it's the same old perk but its competition was gone and it naturally rose to the top.
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Well gens had BIG lights to follow....most of the time, pallets and windows, not so much
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thats not true , survivors literally had a lot of variety in terms of perk and some of them are even underrated unlike killers , Killer dont have basekit features that allows them to play other perks without a huge disadvantage , like Hooray i love running corrupt on all my killers because of the terrible map design and survivor spawns , i love losing 1 gen for free without that perk ; on the survivor side is just people feeling way safer running strong stuff in order to have a chance because OPRESSIVE TOP TIER KILLERS EXIST.
Is like trying to make the argument that a blight using 2 speed addons and survivors running a full set of meme perks are in the same level of advantage. I can run a entire meme build and still win against a pig running full meta and the same applies to the other 70% of killers in the game.
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"it didn't get changed in any way to how it can be used"
Ok cool, we just pretending 5.3.0 didn't happen?
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See I think a Buckle Up level buff is good, as the only problem is the For the People combo potential. Similar to Enduring/Spirit Fury, can you really say you hate Spirit Fury (or Buckle Up) used alone? I'd say FTP needs a full 'transfusion' mechanic that counts as a heal for tomes and dailies, but not for perks. If they make that change, I don't think the combo would exist, nor would Buckle Up ever be considered in the realm of problematic.
Edit:
To be fair, 'how' it can be used is different from 'how often'.
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Yeah I agree with all of that. Buckle Up is fine on it's own and perk combos are good, but buffing a perk to be busted when used with another perk is not a good idea.
That FTP change would be a good way to solve this problem.
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This doesn't change its use, though. You use it the exact same way now as you did before 5.3.0. It has the exact same function.
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MFT + WoO is just auto pilot. Even good survivors use the combo because it's THAT free and map resources dont feel scarce like they used to in 2020.
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Tbf, Resiliance and Dead Hard arent a problem, Res is only a problem due to MFT, which IS a problem on its own.
Adrenaline needs to not heal off hook, and it should not wake you up against Freddy
FTP + Buckle Up should just not work with each other.
WoO could use a CD.
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This is generally the case for both sides. Most perks in the game are very niche and situational, so generally people aren't going to take those ones, they'll instead take the ones that will work in 100% of the matches they play. Hence why both sides see maybe 10 perks that get used out of the 100+ we have.
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Agreed, there are a ton of killer perks that need to be nerfed and have never been touched. UW, Opp, Jolt, Pop, NOED, NWO, BW, Hex DH, Hex PT
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please tell me opp isn't oppression... and BW 💀
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I'm assuming
- Ultimate Weapon
- Oppression
- Jolt
- Pop
- NOED
- No way out
- Blood Warden
- Devour hope
- Plaything
- Ultimate weapon is hardly OP, i really don't understand it, there are so many better tracking perks. Combine lethal with nowhere to hide and you are gonna find everyone all the time whenever you want. UW has such a long cooldown too that it isn't really worth it that much
- Oppression, like really? Oppression? It is one of the worst perks in the game with an 80 SECOND COOLDOWN. I don't even think if they completely REMOVED the cooldown on oppression if it would be any good.
- Jolt only works on m1 attacks and 8% regression is so small. 8% regression is 7.2 seconds of regression. That doesn't even make up for the wipe animation (2.7 seconds) + pickup animation (3 seconds) + walk to a hook (8 seconds average) + hook animation (1.5 seconds) = 15.2 seconds. It doesn't even make back HALF of what you spend just hooking the damn survivor after you down them.
- Pop was already nerfed to be "current" progress, and then buffed up to 30%, which is a pretty decent state. Pop also rewards you for hooking a survivor and not camping, something i'd hope you think is good
- NOED has been nerfed so many times at this point that it isn't worth taking either. It gives you a single down in the end-game, and maybe RNG lets you secure a single kill. Big deal, you still lost the game
- No way out is another SUPER healthy perk, that ENCOURAGES you to NOT TUNNEL, something again, i think you would think is good right?
- Blood warden? Really Blood warden? Blood warden is a meme my friend, only person who sees any use out of this is Benjo for the memes
- Devour hope, again, encourages you to NOT CAMP THE HOOK, and it is a hex something you can cleanse, again if you weren't slamming gens as fast as possible and took an extra 10-15 seconds to look around to make sure no totems are lit you might not run into problems with this
- Plaything? Really? Plaything? garbage perk unless paired with pentimento, and even then good survivors just ignore it and finish gens anyway. So many killers are so loud you don't even need the terror radius to hear them.
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I disagree that WOO is required to learn map layouts even for a casual player. It helps you make snap decisions on chase but isn't really needed, and I should also say doesn't really need a nerf.
The best way to learn map layout is to play some killer. You have free unrestricted access to the whole map.
Requiring 1000's of hours to learn general map layout should be worrying for someone's memory retention.
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I watch a few killer mains on twitch simply for how salty they are, they will literally play Nurse/Blight with the strongest build possible and will 4k 95-99% of the time but the second the survivors play well or get value from a "unbalanced perk" they say how boring they are.
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