What are people's definition of "M1 killer"
Too many times people say M1 killers are unplayable but I wonder are people not relying on powers? Off the top of my head I can only think Pig, Onryo and Dredge fit this definition.
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M1 killer pretty much means they smack you with basic attacks they don't have a ranged attack or a special attack
Wraith
Trapper outside of his traps
Myers
Hag
Doctor
Freddy
Pig
Clown
Spirit to a lesser extent
Legion
Plague to a lesser extent
Ghostface
Oni to a lesser extent
Pinhead
Onryo
Dredge
Sm
Singularity
All are m1 or partially m1 killers to an extent where a lot of their gameplay is just smack survivors with a regular attack or build up to it
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Trapper, Wraith, Freddy, Legion, Clown, ...
Basically m1 killers are killers that can´t down with their ability during a chase and always require hitting m1 for a down.
Or to say it differently. Killers like Billy, Bubba or Myers can insta down healthy survivors with 1 hit. So they get called m2 killers. (and yes, i´m aware that technically Myers would also count as m1.)
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A killer who only has a basic attack to do damage and has to do basic mindgames and fundamentals of chase (spirit for instance can only m1 to damage but her power lets her bypass the typical mindgames of killer and so she is not an m1 killer).
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Killers who can't catch up survivors who held W early (no mobility),
whose power isn't effective at catching survivors in loops (no anti-loop)
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Interesting definitions until now.
For me a M1 killer always was one that can't effectively utilize their power in chase.
For example trapper or hag can't really use their power during an active chase without the survivor making distance and reaching another loop. But for example clown can actively slow down survivor to close the distance, not necessarily efficiently, but he has options to do anything but simply run after the survivor and hope they fall for a bluff.
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Strictly speaking, it refers to Killers that cannot use their power to down survivors directly. Though it’s a rough definition.
Spirit would be considered an M1 killer, but is typically not referred to as one. Same with Slinger.
And on the opposite end, Trapper would not be an M1 killer, but realistically the majority if his downs are coming from M1’s.
I’d say people want it to mean the killers that fall into the same archetype that plays loops the same way. But the term used…doesn’t really work.
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Killers who rely primarily on their basic attack mechanics to get downs.
For example, Wraith is an m1 killer because although he has map mobility through his bonus move speed om cloak, and an extended lunge by using his uncloak, he still needs to commit to being uncloaked in order to chase and hit people.
Nurse, however, uses blink attacks to bypass obstacles; she uses her power to get hits, so she is not an M1 killer.
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A M1 killers is a killers whose power cannot directly hurt survivors. Like myers whose power can in no way deal damage to a survivor, but Weskers power can damage them and as such he is an M2 killer.
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There's not so much of a working definition, especially for those who try to say that M1 killers are unplayable/punished more by [X meta thing].
For me, an M1 killer is simply a killer whose power doesn't directly do damage mid-chase. Obviously, this includes some pretty strong killers like Pinhead, whose power doesn't damage at all outside of one specific iridescent addon, as well as the weakest killer in the form of Trapper, whose power only damages indirectly when a survivor steps in it rather than directly because the killer player pressed a button.
The problem with "M1 killer" as a term is that people want it to mean a coherent group of killers of comparable strength who share the same downsides/struggles as one another, and that just doesn't work.
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Mostly killers that rely on the basic 4.6 m/s movement speed and don't have a way to reliably hit you with a special attack.
This includes: Freddy, Trapper, Pig, Clown, Myers, Wraith, Ghostface, Dredge, Legion, Doctor and SM.
I do not consider Plague to be a M1 killer because her biggest strength is the Corrupt Purge, which is special attack. Singularity is in a similar spot. Most of the time, you won't rely on mindgames but instead use your power to brute force your way through. This is also goes for Pinhead, although to a lesser extent.
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The problem with the definition of "m1" killer is that it includes killers like pinhead, who really aren't what we are talking bout when people say things like "m1 killers are hurt by mft".
I think the term "m1 killer" is pretty loaded, but in general, when i hear it, or say it, i generally think of "this killer has to play the loop game". This includes killers like demogorgon to me, because they still have to loop, they just have a mindgame at certain points where its "are they gonna m2?" and the survivor has to decide. Then there are some that don't even play the same game, like nurse. And then there are others that always have to play the loop game, like legion.
Maybe it is better to think of it as, there is a dropped non-god pallet, maybe like, a pallet gym or something. How likely is it that the killer can get the down without breaking said pallet? And that is what i think of when i think of "m1 killer"
So basically, i see it almost like a "tier list" but not really talking about strength just how much they have to play the loop game:
To explain a few entries that might surprise people:
- Blight still has to play the loop game around certain pallets and loops, but certainly can get around them at many of them, especially with hug tech.
- Artist can completely shut down a loop requiring a "leave the loop" style of gameplay that is stronger that most.
- Dredge can do similar to artist, but he is slowed down SO much, that the "just leave the loop" playstyle is far stronger against him when he tries to do one of these mindgames
- Oni doesn't really play the loop game when he gets his power, but outside of his power he has to.
- Wesker can use his power at some loops but many of them not really due to how they are shaped.
- Knight and SM still have to play the loop game as their power itself isn't really strong enough to down like it is with artist, just enough to corral them. For example the "drop a guard at a loop" gameplay of knight is countered by leaving the loop, but so much so that the knight can do nothing but deal with the shift+w, whereas artist can use ranged attacks to deal with that style of gameplay.
- Demo/Nemesis/PH/Xeno still have to play the loop game, again they do get an extra mindgame that other killer's don't, but they are still going to be running around the loop just like any other.
- Wraith does have stealth, but he still has to play the loop game, some loops are short enough that the speed boost can mindgame around a pallet.
- Sadako also has stealth, but she slows down unlike wraith, meaning she must play the loop game in a chase
- Trapper might have traps, but they can't really be used in chase
- Trickster might be ranged, but his power doesn't work the same as huntress requiring him to often loop around things
- Plague is in the "loop 25% of the time category" when she has corrupt purge. But the problem there is, any good survivor team will never cleanse, meaning you at most (depending on addons) get 3 a game, and basekit only 1. Putting her in the "loops 75% of the time category"
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It's not an exact science, I know, but I look at it from the perspective of STBFL. If you're getting benefit from it, you're very probably playing an M1 Killer; a Killer that, even if they have an M2 ability, is doing the vast majority of, if not all their damage through basic attacks.
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While the true definition is any killer who primarily downs with basic attacks, the typical context is used to describe weaker killers who have to still loop and mind game to score hits. So to not be considered a m1 killer you need: -
- A power that can't realistically be used to directly damage in chase and/or isnt the primary damage source for the killer (excludes killers like Huntress, Artist, Deathslinger, Xeno, loosely Pyramid Head and Cannibal)
- A power that doesn't significantly close distance and lands fast hits that heavily bypasses the strength of loops (excludes killers like Nurse, Blight, Spirit, Wesker)
There are a few killers whose power has strong anti-loop that ease the mind games significantly, like Skull Merchant, Clown, Pinhead, Nightmare, Doctor and Dredge, however these are still M1 killers, because their powers still result in mind games at loops that requires them walking around the loop to get a basic m1 to hit. (These mind games may be heavily 1 sided, but they're still there).
However when we are usually saying m1 killers, we normally are referring to the killers whose powers don't really do much to help in chase, and more often than not will purely have to mind game loops with no power to assist:
- Pig
- Shape
- Ghost Face
- Trapper
- Onryò
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i think it depends on what you categorize as looping. for me, there is 2 part of looping. the first part of looping is using windows and pallets themselves to make distance within tile itself. the second aspect is how quickly the killer recovers from distance gain, the shift-w/pre-running aspect of the game and how well the killer chains downs. Looping is wasting time and delaying downs from the killer but categorizing time waste in chase from the killer is not clear-cut for every killer.
your list says that Hag does not play loops yet shift-w is one of strongest counters to hag because she is 110% m/s and has to set traps. if you set traps in the middle of the map while your chasing then survivor can shift-w to other loops. she can out-zone loops much like dredge, knight or artist by corralling you in the corner of the map but this is recipe to lose 2-3 gens at the start of every trial vs strong team. I am curious to why you think she is so time efficient in the chase.
GF at 75% of loops? he has no chase potencial at base-kit beyond red glow.
Wraith is barely makes any distance at base-kit with his speed boost because his bell takes a long time to ring. when I play survivor, I often see uncloaking add-on to try to improve his chase.
I wonder why you place hag so highly along side wraith and GF as not m1 killers?
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Thanks for all the answers all!
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So for hag, if you play against a good hag main, they use the "Scrollwheel tech". When they do that, no amount of "shift+w" is going to get you away from her when you trigger a trap, and unlike trapper, she "has all her traps from the start" and can just constantly place them whenever she needs them.
For ghostface, i still recognize that, depending on the map and RNG and such, he can still just insta-down people without them having a chance to react at all. Wraith, can use the movement speed to mindgame certain pallets, but he makes so much noise that you generally aren't getting the drop on any decent survivor even with your stealth, so he still ends up playing the loop game on the majority of pallets on a map.
In general though, you need to not take the list there as an exact science, it was just my gut reaction when thinking about each killer for 5 seconds. It isn't some gospel take that even i 100% agree with. I was simply making a point that its less about the idea of "m1 killer" and more about, "how much of the loop around the piece of wood does this killer have to deal with"
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M1 killers are basically killers who have a power that can't DIRECTLY injure/down survivors (wraith, clown, freddy, onryo, doctor) AND/OR their power is weak enough/unreliable enough (in chase) that they may as well just be an M1 killer for the most part (trapper, pig, legion).
Killers like Pinhead, even though he can't directly injure survivors with his power (usually), he has a strong chase power so I wouldn't count him as an M1 killer.
Also, depending on the circumstances or addons, killers can be called M1 killers. E.g.:
- If I realize a Michael Myers is using an aura reading addon, I'd call him an m1 killer.
- If I notice that a trapper/hag has no traps placed, I'd call them an m1 killer.
- If Huntress has no hatchets, she's an m1 killer.
Etc.
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the whole point is that your not suppose to trigger traps. they're visible with grey triangle on floor. you hold-w transitioning to loops. she takes like 2 second to place them without the increase setting speed you can easily do 60+ second chases between two hits. when accounting hook time and how slow hag plays. that is like 3 gens in first chase if you successfully spread out and do gens. if you crouch, it takes 3.5 second to wipe traps. No flashlight are needed for hag anymore. by the time chasing hag gets hits, you can finish a majority of the game. Hag ignoring loops is like Knight dropping guards. it counters looping but is not time efficient.
most killer fall somewhere in middle where they are not purely m1 but they are not strong in the chase. player label them as m1 as synonymy to a weak killer that takes too long to get downs in the 1vs1.
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It's nice seeing a verity of definitions
For us we're part of the "Can't damage with their power directly" group. This includes the likes of spirit, nurse (yes we know what your thinking and don't care), trapper, pinhead (normally), ghostface, hag, clown, onryu, meyers, doc, hux, wraith, dredge, merchant, and freddy.
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I'm not here to argue about how to or how to not play as or against hag. I was simply giving my opinion on the definition of the term "m1 killer"
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m1 killer is a bit incorrect term.
more correct one would be "walking killer" or a killer that relies primarily on movement speed difference to get within m1 hit range in order to secure hits in chase.
to put it broadly - any killer that can be looped efficiently.
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Pig is one of the most m1 killers you can find. She's probably the best m1 killer but yeah.
Using Stealth against good survivors on big maps is a hindrance without combat straps and medical file. Ambush can literally be outrun on many tiles.
The biggest m1 killer in the game (and therefore arguably the weakest killer in the game) is Freddy.
Sadako has phasing and Dredge has the remnant.
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I see m1 killer as 4.6 movement speed, no power. Normal Mindgames, normal pathing. They all kinda play the same. You can use the same knowledge from one to another.
Some are better at m1 killer than others though.
Dredge being the weakest and Pig being the strongest in my opinion.
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