General Discussions
General Discussions
For the People + Buckle Up #########?
You´re the killer, you chase someone for 30 seconds, it cost to you 1 or maybe 2 gens then you down the survivor.
BAW! Another survivor appear right in front of you and now you don´t have your hook and 2 survivors are invulnerable for 10 seconds, time enought to reach another loop with a strong window or a strong pallet and make you waste more time.
What´s the point of that? How you can counter that? How many times it will occur during the match? There is NO COUNTER PLAY against that!
Killers don´t being rewared for wining a chase is so ridiculous.
Comments
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it is too strong, I agree
the counterplay is to be aware of other survivors hiding nearby, and to injure multiple people before getting a down, maybe playing a bit more hit-and-run. it's not perfect counterplay but until BHVR tweak that interaction it's the best you've got
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Counter is a perk that oh so much people claim to be unfair and unbalanced.
Save the best for last.
When you down a survivor, your cooldown is short enough to hit the survivor coming in. Doesn't work always but is better than nothing.
Otherwise there is no counterplay if executed correctly.
Play a strong killer I guess?
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Injuring many players is a really bad idea right now against the better survivors.
Resilience will shred your gens.
You beat buckle up +ftp but you lost a lot of time regardless.
Lose lose situation.
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So the healing/medkits nerfs were a buff to survivors?
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I agree it's too strong and lacks counterplay.
Imo, FTP just shouldn't count as a healing action. Doesn't affect either perk when used standalone as they're both fine on their own, but immediately puts a stop to this no-counterplay combo and also ensures there's never a similar problem with it being used with other perks in the future.
5 -
It's definitely too strong and I cannot wait for it to be nerfed.
That being said, there can be counterplay depending on how long it takes that survivor to get to their downed comrade, because if you injure them before they can start healing, they can't use FTP. It's not perfect and it's nowhere near enough to justify that broken combo existing, but it's something to look out for until the fix comes in, whenever that will be.
7 -
It strongly reminds me of OG Borrowed Time.
Both the unhooker and the unhooked got a free hit. meaning the savior could bumrush in and get out practically for free.
2 -
How are you losing two gens in 30 seconds when there's only two people on gens?
I actually quite like FTP Buckle Up because it takes people off of gens and gets me some really easy pressure. It's also a great anti-tunnel tool, which adds some spice to games.
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Somehow yes because after that they release MTF
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With MFT in the picture? Yeah kinda. The meta build right now is MFT/Resilience/Hope/Adrenaline. Ignore healing, power through gens, after last gen pops you get a free heal and the game is basically over because good luck trying to catch a survivor with hope/MFT
9 -
If they want the game to be "played in the most fun way" they should not be balancing the game around kills and should instead balance around hooks and chases.
Post edited by Rizzo on3 -
Ignoring that other person's response here, what causes you to say they aren't balancing around hooks and chases?
It looks to me like that is the direction behind their basekit changes (like weakening facecamping and tunnelling) and their perk designs (considering how many revolve around hooks or chases).
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I've been running a BU/FTP build almost exclusively. Now I'm only SoloQ but I'd be lucky if I can pull it off. Seems to be successful 1 in 15 games.
I would think this combo would be great for killers. One less person off a gen. Sacrificing a health state...which needs someone else to heal me up again. A lot of the time I have to rely on a medkit since I can't coordinate heals.
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I just meant that I wasn't in support of your conclusion regarding their balance efforts. You are the other person in this equation, though I didn't mean anything personal by it; I was just making an entirely separate point and didn't want to be misconstrued.
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So it’s not that good but you run it exclusively?
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I run it because I hate being on gens and it gives me something alternative to do. Plus the few times I do pull it off is when a teammate can't quite make it to the exit gate. I can just pick them up and they are free. I find it far stronger in end game.
To add on, it likely has more utility from SWF as I can't coordinate downs with my teammate.
3 -
As someone who loves running the build, it's good but definitely not broken (enough to warrant a nerf imo)
- Hit-and-run killers make pulling it off 10x harder
- STBFL exists
- An observant killer can simply wack you if they notice you lurking around (risky on certain maps)
- Getting tunneled so you always stay injured
- One less survivor on gens
- The killer can wait out the endurance
Not saying it's the most healthy combo out there but it actually makes interactions more engaging and less gen-rushy so I'll give credit where credit is due.
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its the best anti tunnel method we have, I'm going to use it. If a killer doesn't tunnel I won't be sweaty and use it, but the second a killer starts tunneling i'm ready to try and make the killer regret it. I recognize that I'm just one person but ftp + buckle up doesn't need changes until bhvr addresses tunneling which should've been addressed before camping.
8 -
it's total bs and needs a change asap.
what's the counterplay even if you realize someone is lurking around? leave your injured target to chase a healthy person? because unless you are huntress or knight you can't chase/pressure multiple people.
5 -
The counterplay is to realize that gen progress is massively slowed and that you can pressure half the team with zero effort.
6 -
zero effort, except you lose a down and potentially your pop and/or pain res. against decent survivors this means the match is lost for weaker killers since they can't get their downs that easily.
10 -
Funny, because FTP + Buckle up causes me to tunnel people. Tunnel the survivor they're saving, then tunnel them. Because if they're going to nullify the only pressure killer has, I may as well throw the rest of the game out the window and focus entirely on killing them. While enduring flashlights and teabags the whole time, of course.
This combo is ridiculous. Its only counter is to keep the entire team injured, which only a few killers can do semi-reliably. Or never down a survivor unless you're certain no other survivors are around, which is also nigh-impossible. Everyone else just gets screwed because we have to have a dozen Endurance perks in the game that all last 10 seconds for some reason. Funny that Soul Guard is the most difficult one to use but it has the shortest duration at 8 seconds.
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Which matters less because there's a maximum of two people on gens, which as anyone who has played Solo Q can tell you, is not a winning strategy unless the Killer is VASTLY worse.
7 -
well in most cases i get value from killers who decided they were going to slug 3 people while looking for the 4th. this happens quite often too. I main killer as i've said on this forum several times and have zero problem with buckle up + made for this. I also very rarely come across this combo for it to be a problem. 90% of the time survivors go for flashlight saves and instead.
2 -
I've only ever encountered it as one survivor running in to ninja a heal right as I get a down, and then all I can do is either try to wait out the 10 seconds Endurance (during which they will probably reach another tile to loop) or hit them through the Endurance (after which they will probably reach another tile to loop).
At this point I'm getting the impression that killer committing to a chase, ever, is always the wrong play.
2 -
Where did i say that?
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you look like the type to defend locker saves. "hey, that needed 2 people not on gens. just pull them until their flashlights die. locker saves are hard to pull off anyway so they deserve the saves."
that's not the case. there is no chance of counterplay from killer's part and at that point the number of people not on gens doesn't matter, nor the difficulty to make the play. there is no counterplay, there is no player agency from killer side and that's not a good game design.
9 -
I agree. It's so busted 😂
2 -
I'm meh on locker saves. They really didn't serve much of a purpose for progressing the game nor did they help stop tunneling. Also, this is classic whataboutism.
Uhhhh, there's plenty of agency??? You are, for all intents and purposes, chasing two people.
3 -
no, that's not whataboutism. they are very similar, and locker saves are gone now because there was nothing the killer could do about it and it taking multiple people off gens didn't justify its existence.
what agency does the killer have? let's talk about survivors that know what they are doing. again, are you chasing the ftp user when you spot them over your injured target? because in open areas you can't block their way either.
8 -
The combo makes me think 8 tokens of STBFL and Alc Ring are very fine.
5 -
"Maybe we deserve Nurse and Blight" is a thought that occasionally runs through my head when dealing with certain survivor teams.
2 -
Doh? Gens were being repaired before the chase start? LoL
It´s just an example, I said 1 or maybe 2.
Post edited by BoxGhost on1 -
Locker saves aren't gone. You just have to spam getting in and out of the locker. Thanks to latency, you're pretty much guaranteed to force the killer to do a exit/enter grab which is still blindable. Only a full open the locker and grab the survivor is blind protected.
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You can run thana. It's been overnerfed and they should tweak it a bit to make it stronget, but at worst it reduces the effectiveness of resil and at best it more than compensates for it
0 -
they can just lunge, this works only once per killer.
1 -
That's fair.
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Cant we just amit it total bs but want it to stay? I definitely want it to stay myself.
Suprise more people not running it. I see it like maybe once every 8 games when I'm playing killer. Its the only good anti tunnel perk in the game! The rest of them fail miserably to actually stop a killer who hard focusing you in solo q. With that being said i think the combo hilariously overpowering. Don't you love when survivors and killers give the exact same excuse on why something fair?
ftp/buckle up
survivor- "people off gens and it very risky"
killer- ...yeah but i loss my down and both survivors got 10 seconds to go anywhere
tunneling
killer- "it very risky and can cost you the game"
survivor- right....so risky to wait 10 sec... is that why everybody do it when they wanna win?
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You’re “chasing” two people, but once they pull it off they go back to 3 people on gens while your chase is reset.
Getting the down is still more pressure because after I hook them I am pressuring 3 survivors (one hooked, one going to save, once in chase) as opposed to 2 being “chased” for the first half and then only 1 once they pull off the FTP. Yeah they are going a bit slower, but they are still progressing their objective where as the killer is still not progressing theirs.
This also doesn’t take into account end game where it just makes you near invincible once a gate is open or if a survivor doesn’t just follow the killer around and uses it when the opportunity shows up.
5 -
In the 1-2 gen time it took to down said survivor you could always just drop chase and put pressure elsewhere. Alot of times killers will really try to down one person without really considering when it's optimal to leave the chase and putting pressure elsewhere. The perk combo is really powerful tho and a bit of an exploit in a way that doesn't allow for much counterplay against swfs but maybe switching chase when it's not a quick enough down to add more pressure.
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I agree with you. Something that I cannot understand is the game design here. I am glad that Buckle Up got a buff, really awesome! But if we go back in time: The old Borrowed Time got nerfed since it felt unfair that the Unhooked person and the Unhooker received the Borrowed Time effect. Now we have WGLF, got changed so you the healed person receives the Endurance effect and you can only activate it if you took a protection hit / rescued someone.
In this meta right now, we have perks that require you to do nothing but give you a better effect than others with requirement. And that is the big issue imo.
Want strong Haste? Take MFT instead of Boon: Dark Theory
Want Endurance? Take Buckle Up instead of WGLF
The List goes on and on
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just wait it out
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Maybe, if it worked ONLY in a tunneling scenario?
Yay, up to the next loop and a reset chase 👍
2 -
Do you use thanatophobia?
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chase someone else then?
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I don't care about going against resilience
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I didnt ask but ok....
I have no problem with resilience by itself. I have a problem with surivors completely skipping over a part of the game because the killer isnt threatening enough.
Hitting someone more often or not, does more harm then it helps. Nurse and Blight might not care that much. But a Freddy, Pig, Doctor, Legion etc. care a lot.
Id rather go back to more second chances. At least the games where more interactive.
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You asked if I run Thana. I had earlier explained that Thana can counteract Resilience if you are worried about resilience. I'd hoped you would connect the dots and realize I was answering your question about running thana (no I don't run it) while also providing additional context (I do not feel the need to counter the thing I think thana counters)
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Thanks for clarifiying. I like to give clear answers here on the forum. A lot of players take some arguments the wrong way REALLY fast.
I refer to my previous post, that i too have no problem with resilience.
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