http://dbd.game/killswitch
Making Suicide on Hook Harder, but keep Kobe
To self unhook at phase 1 is 4%, and is intended as a last ditch Hail Mary to escape when all other allies are downed and all hope is lost.
I'm a firm believer in DBD mechanics like Kobe and Hatch are necessary to avoid scenarios where all hope is absolutely lost as much as possible, because if there is truly no way out, then there is no point in playing.
The elephant in the room is this mechanic is mostly used to self terminate to give an ally hatch, ensure your teammates don't try to save you when you know the killer has an ace up their sleeve, or more often than not quit the game and avoid a DC penalty.
This last point is a problem. The obvious point is, we can't force people to play, but if it were made a big pain in the arse to suicide on hook, more people would just leave for the DC instead of self-unhooking to death.
So the list of scenarios that should permit unhook attempts: -
- Deliverance charged/Slippery Meat equipped.
- AFC meter filled.
- One or less of the other players not downed/hooked/dead.
- Final 5 seconds before switch to phase 2.
All other times self unhook is disabled. Since we can't trust people to commit to the queue, if they want out, make em eat their penalty or waste somw of the killers time.
May also require a rework to luck, making it work like Plunderer's Instinct would be good to help find keys in end game.
Comments
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Alternatively track the frequency of players who regularly transition straight to phase 2 from first hook, and punish them specifically with this system instead of giving them a ban.
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Well I don't think there needs to be such a mechanic at all, if we look at other games giving up when you know you lost is fairly common and it is somewhat fair, why should the winning player be punished by a random percentage chance just getting unlucky and being unable to do anything about it is pretty annoying... As for examples for games that have that: Starcraft 2 basically always ends with one player calling it gg and leaving, most RTS actually end this way, same goes team games where it is two stacks against each other and I don't see much of an issue with a button that starts a vote to just give up. Would prevent games like 1 h holding the game hostage skull merchant even more effective than what we have now. Also I don't consider hatch a win either anyway so even if you get it it is basically worthless you did not do anything to earn it, it doesn't count as a win for the mmr syste, so all you get is bloodpoints so yeah thats that.
They should just remove both things figure out something else instead that at least allows some skill interaction or just nothing and get a give up button.
Besides that as for the idea itself: You can always just go afk and wait for the killer to hook you or not, just tab out and do something else if you don't want to play the match against some 3 gen garbage or whatever, I don't think people would necessarily dc, because of the dc penalty just going afk might still be quicker than waiting that out.
I find iti s too much of an effort to make a bad mechanic less bad, just get rid of the whole thing, make luck offerings give you better items in chests or more skill checks on gens or whatever...
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I'm not saying we should do this suggestion, but if it is implemented newbies would need to be exempt for like 50 hours or trials or something. Given the steep learning curve and wonky matchmaking rookies can get, and dying faster too, they'll need a grace period I think.
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"The obvious point is, we can't force people to play, but if it were made a big pain in the arse to suicide on hook, more people would just leave for the DC instead of self-unhooking to death"
you're right in the fact that you can't force people to play, but no, they wouldn't just leave for the dc. the 4% is not the problem here, the mistake bhvr made was increasing the dc penalties when adding bots into the game. they really missed the mark, what was the point in adding a feature to help the team when you don't want to play, but then not incentivising giving the team that extra help. i'm not saying pull the dc penalty completely, but the fact that they increased it was a bit questionable.
for most, this game is a casual game, not a comp game. if someone doesn't want to play, they won't. if they don't want the dc penalty, they'll attempt on hook. if thats removed, they'll afk. if they add afk penalties, they'll throw themselves at the killer. killer won't kill them? they'll bleed out on the floor or run around griefing/doing nothing. if they start penalising every way out of the game, people will stop playing their game. 90% of the time there is no way a person who has decided they want out will change their mind and decide to start trying.
bhvr need to incentivise dcing if anything, not removing every other way out of the game. personally i think they should just cap the dc penalty to 20/30 minutes, anything over that is kind of obscene. 20/30 minutes allows people to go and cool off and revaluate whether or not they want to keep playing the game, it gives them a break from rage queuing. along with that, considering their servers are so shoddy and kick people out the game for no reason at the moment, 20/30 minutes is not an insanely long wait time for people who have incorrect dc penalties.
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Now you see, you can't incentivise DCing, that's not a solution. Bots don't fix this game. If you're not gonna play, don't queue. That's the problem.
This game is a game that requires 5 players. If you're not gonna commit to that, get out of the game, don't play it, stop ruining it for everyone else.
I personally advocate for tracking players who SOH via various mechanisms and hitting them with hard bans... I'm talking days. However, we do get this newbie problem as @JPLongstreet says.
So if that's not possible as the route to take, take the power out of players hands entirely. The community can't be trusted with the power, so take it off them.
The other option is, have the reporting system actually do something. Players regularly reported for bad behaviour need to get banned, with appropriate weightings put on individual reports vs. SwF reports, cause that'll be abused too.
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you would rather have a team member afk/throw the game than a bot who actually helps the team? to me that's crazy, and while bots don't fix the game, they are a hell of a lot more useful than a team mate that doesn't want to play the game. i don't think you have a real grasp on the fact that if someone doesn't want to play, they really will not, and you will have a worse experience in a 3v1 than if a bot is in the game.
i'm also not sure why a new player giving up on hook is okay but an older player not? just because the game has a big learning curve doesn't mean they should be able to give up and 'ruin' everyone elses game experience? i have a few thousand hours on the game and i still get poor matchmaking? i've been put with people from 10 hours - 10,000 hours, how is that fair for me but not a new person? arguably the new players should be the ones to stay in the game longer so they can learn the mechanics of the game no? i've been put in lobbies with new players before, but by your logic they're allowed to give up on hook, so how is that not ruining the game for us? in my eyes, the only people who ruin the game are the ones who hide edge map or in lockers all game and don't do anything, which is where a bot becomes significantly more useful.
like i said before, to most people this is a CASUAL game. games go on average maybe 10 minutes, if not less. behaviour will literally never implement hard bans like you're suggesting, because like i said before, if they do, player count will drop substantially, queue times will go up, and behaviour would lose significant amounts of money.
if someone quitting one game for you is ruining your entire experience of the game then i think it becomes more of a you problem than anything else. 10 minutes is such a short amount of time, and then you can go to the next one, more often than not games are less than 10 min if someone gives up, it really is not that long of a wait.
if the ONLY way that you find fun in this game is by escaping, i think you need to take a look at yourself and maybe try out some different ways of playing. people should not be getting banned from reports for giving up in one or two games, it is a casual game that people play for fun. if someone is not having fun, they have no obligation to keep playing said game.
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Lot of assumptions there dude.
I realise I'm posting with hard tone in this thread to emphasise the point, so I'll talk more normally.
It's not about escaping or winning, the problem is bots are a band aid and nothing more. Once a player quits the game, its significantly harder for survivors to win. Can you still win? Ofc you can, but it's much harder. More often than not, the rest of the team gives up too, because now the battle is very much uphill, so this whole game becomes a wash.
Its not even fun for killer, when I'm playing killer, I have much less desire to play when a player DCs, cause the game just swung a huge amount in my favour. I don't even camp or tunnel, so I am someone who is playing more casual. More often than not I kill the bot, get my hooks and then let everyone go, cause the 'game' doesn't really matter anymore.
My point is, this game is designed for 5 players. You can't incentivise people to leave the game and reward for kicking their toys out of the pram, otherwise you'll just get more people who do it.
If you make is so someone can't leave easily, that empowers other player to so something about it. You can bet as killer if I see someone afking and ruining the game for everyone, I will happily slug and let that person bleed out as punishment.
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incentivise doesn't mean reward, it just means that you want them to do something rather than another thing. in this case, you WANT them to dc instead of giving up on hook so the team gets the bot replacement.
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Doesn't change the fact that removing the DC penalty will increase the number of players who do it. This is a complex problem without a simple solution.
Your are arguing bots are better than a player who won't play, so allowing DCs is preferable.
I'm arguing you have strong penalties to stop players who won't play even joining the queue. In lieu of that, make it so that leaving is as hard and annoying as possible for said leaver to stop them trying to play.
Both answers have flaws, and I don't think there is a perfect solution. It's more a case of what concessions you're willing to put up with, and in my case, encouraging more people to swap for bots is an unacceptable compromise.
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And you really think that if you remove the current mechanic people aren’t going to find another way to throw?
Cure the underlying condition instead of proposing bandaid fixes.
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Oh they will, but as I stated in the title, you make it harder to do. You make it so it's an effort to throw, you reduce the number of times they queue in the first place.
I'd rather keep the system as it is, but unless you introduce a comprehensive system to track people who do it with appropriate bans, it will continue to be exploited.
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I prefer the current situation over teammates throwing a fit and start throwing down pallets and so on to be honest.
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Eh fair point. To each their own.
Personally, the possibility of the Killer identifying it (or when I'm playing Killer myself), downing them and letting the whole team of survivors teabag them mercilessly is a thought that warms my cold dead soul. 😁
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Or maybe, just maybe...the developers need to address the discontent with the game. 1 year ago nobody was killing themselves purposely on hook. I wonder what results their recent survey gave...
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What is Kobe?
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Absolutely! 30 minutes is PLENTY of time for players to cool off. I don't know why they thought capping the penalty at 72 hours max (3 days) was a good idea, that's absolutely RIDICULOUS. No one should have to wait hours or days just to play this game, regardless if you intentionally DC or not. A lot of people will disagree with me, and that's fine! 👍
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i never said remove the dc penalty, i said cap the dc penalty. how many times do i have to say that having strong penalties wont do anything except reduce player count, increase queue times significantly, and put you with/against fewer people who are at your skill level, that means more 10,000 hour blights, and more 10 hour jakes. but if thats what you want, go ahead and keep advocating for it.
more often than not, people give up on hook because its a killer they don't like, or its something like everyone is on the floor at 5 gens. there are 33 killers, you don’t queue up knowing what killer you are going against, which is why people give up if its one they don’t enjoy going against. unless behaviour for whatever reason added a way to see the killer you’re up against (they won’t, thats half the fun of the game), people will continue to find ways around playing the game.
you’re literally arguing for a system that is making the game worse for the 3 remaining survivors. the whole point of bots is that they are relatively useful and do the objective, i’m advocating for the fact that people should WANT to dc over giving up on hook, which in the current system, no one wants to do. you’re advocating for a game where you want people to go out of their way to throw the game and find different ways out instead of playing because you want people to have days worth of penalties. no matter how much of an effort it is, people will still throw if it means they won’t get a penalty.
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unhooking yourself w the 4% chance
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People will suicide on hook anyway because they want to keep the points, their challenge completion, or even the XP they earned
Reducing the DC penalty won't help that
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