Blacklist Specific Killer Option
Hello!
Reading some comments on other posts I've seen some sympathy for this idea.
Survivor players have a variety of different playstyles, different strengths and weaknesses during play.
Because of that, certain killers which exploit those weaknesses are absolutely miserable to play against. Just right out of the gate the game is ruined.
I think it's reasonable for a player to have a limited blacklisting ability:
1 killer banned from their matchmaking outright
1 killer they'd prefer not to play against but will understandably have to sometimes, just hopefully less frequently than others.
My guess is that people have varied enough preferences that it would be spread out enough to not make it impossible for certain killers to find games. Maybe some survivors wouldn't even opt to use it at all.
However, if it turns out that certain killers are universally blacklisted, then that's a great indicator for the devs that the killer needs a rework. The design of the game should not ruin the enjoyment of all opposing players.
Just to see if there are any patterns here, I'm gonna share my picks and encourage others to share theirs:
Blacklist: Wraith
Prefer not to play against: probably Trickster, or maybe Legion
Comments
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If you've seen posts supporting this idea, then you've no doubt seen ten times as many posts listing all the reasons why this is terrible and exploitable.
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clearly i haven't so why don't you humor me and share this info instead of condescending
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Okay, Mister Passive Aggression.
1) The premise for your system is that Survivors all have differing play-styles and facing a Killer that counters (the word is "counters," not "exploits" - that's intentionally emotive) their chosen play-style is unfair and unfun, ruinous even. The game is "ruined" because the Survivor has to work for their win or even, shock horror, adapt their play-style or improve upon their weaknesses as a player to deal with a particular Killer. That's not an excellent premise, that's a weird display of entitlement. That's it, that's your entire premise, that you want to go into a match with a set tactic and never have to deviate from it.
2) It will reduce matchmaking to a crawl. Matchmaking, as it stands, is quick and highly inaccurate. Your idea will make it slow and even more inaccurate. Every Survivor has one Killer that has to be excluded from matchmaking and one greylisted Killer that has to be taken into consideration. That's 4 Killers that will be rejected outright and potentially another 4 Killers that the matchmaking is actively looking to avoid. If you've blacklisted Trickster, even if everyone else is fine with him, they have to sit there until a game can be found without Trickster to appease you. This has to be juggled with finding a Killer in the average MMR range of the lobby.
3a) Even if matchmaking wasn't reduced to a crawl, SWFs would gain a massive advantage. Each person blacklists a different top tier Killer, then they each greylist the same Killer. That's four blocked Killers and one that may as well be blocked. They'd just block Killers that they knew stood a better chance of winning against them than others.
3b) Certain tomes have multiple challenges for a specific Killer. People frequently complain about seeing X Killer too often during these tomes, even if the Killer isn't unbalanced. This, no doubt, would lead to the seasonal banning of Killers simply to avoid seeing them every other game. This is massively unfair for obvious reasons.
3c) People frequently complain about facing new Killers too often for the first week or so of release. This would, no doubt, lead to people having an incredibly hard time playing games with a Killer they just paid good money for. This is massively unfair for obvious reasons.
4) If Killers are "universally" blacklisted, all it would prove is that people didn't like facing them. It wouldn't prove them to be broken or in need of a rework. Lots of people dislike Wesker, but he's balanced; would a high block rate for Wesker mean he needed a rework? No.
Consider yourself humoured.
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it'll never stop on 1 killer, you want killers to wait for matches forever? if I cannot find match quickly on my killer, I'll just close the game, I will not switch to other killer I didn't want to play today.
terrible idea
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Wesker is literally free escape, people are overrating him, he is good against bad survs. But he is very bad against good ones.
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Only if I can blacklist MFT
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Sorry to say that but then you never saw a good Wesker.
A Wesker who knows how to rebound, urobend, skinny-Bert and most important can hug-tech will destroy most survivors.
The thing is that most of his techs need hrs of training and/or frame perfect execution and the vast majority of Wesker players can't do that. He has a low skill floor and a really high skill ceiling, so it is natural that the average werker is worse than the average Blight for example who definitely has a higher skill floor.
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I don't know man he gets used in comp so I don't think he is the worst... And when we have a look at Knightlights comp tierlist:
He is still the 7th best killer in the game, even before Plague... So I don't think he is bad against good survivors.
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Most survivors = bad survivors, Wesker is weak af against good survivors. If you think you’re good Wesker we can go scrim, you’ll change your mind quickly. Just like the p100 Wesker who went last time and got 3 hooks.
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Comp tierlist from november 2022 when the killer was new now everyone knows how to play against him, the killer gets nowadays max 6 hooks in comp when lucky.
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You do realise that 6 hooks is quite good? Compared to what most killers get in comp? And that was probably even before all the techs he has got discovered... Since he was only out for a few months at that point. You think the other killers do better than Wesker? Also just because it was last updated back then does not mean it changed, because Wesker did not get any significant changes since then... So I don't see your point.
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Point is, back then they didn't know how to play against him. Now he gets max 6 hooks with NOED xD
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So you're telling me they had no clue how to play against him back then but did know how to pull off all his techs? Isn't it a given in comp to run noed? So this does not make this case any special does it? Also do you have some videos of 6 hooks max or something to prove your statement?
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Not all P100 Weskers are gods you know. I have a P100 Wesker because I like him, but I still have a lot of work to do until I can reliably hug-tech for example. I play more survivor than killer, so naturally I am better at that then killer.
I have seen P100 Nurses who were average at most. Who cares. Really. Prestige says nothing. I have seen P9 Blights destroy a good swf while a P100 blight got wrecked.
And no, I will not 1v1 you, because my Weskin' time is precious. :)
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I am not talking about 1v1, talking about 4v1 where we cannot use the same perks twice and some perks are also banned. So you can see even with half of the perks banned, wesker will get destroyed.
https://www.twitch.tv/videos/1963393655?t=02h50m03s
Here have fun, or you can ask directly on discord the players from that tourney.
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Even Nurse and Blight get demolished by the best teams, heck team Eternal defeated the 1hr Chess Merchant too (while following tournament rules). A strategy 99% of the playerbase would lose against.
You saying that Wesker is overrated is just not true. Also in tournaments, there are, like you said, specific rules. This also applies to the winning condition. Often the killer has to get a specific amount of hookstages, not kills. Getting 6 hookstages would be very good, even if nobody died.
And to clarify again: nobody cares about the strength of killers in comp DBD. Only what, 0.5% of the Playerbase are comp players? Idk. Tierlists tell you nothing. And most comp players do not play their killer to perfection. They just learnt how to camp/tunnel efficiently.
BTW: There was a time (2018/2019) when old old Freddy won a tournament. Why? Because it was a console only event and Nurse was ultra hard to handle on a controller and 30fps....
But if you have your set-in-stone-opinion I will no longer discuss with you. It's a waste of time.
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This will be the perfect update for a relaxing cup of coffee while watching the fire!
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So this is directly out of your replay, to me that looks like 8 hooks stages.... So do you want to change your statement? Also this seems to be eternal on the survivor side considering they are one of the if not the strongest comp team, this should mean something, don't you think? I also find it funny that you for some reason decided to send me a later match, where Wesker probably performed worse ^^ The one from where the picture is starts at around 1.16 h I think.
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I don't know about the statement that comp players don't play the killer to perfection... That's a tough claim my man ^^
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I just looked at your TTV clip.
That Wesker is BAD. He's just looping like a normal M1 killer, barely uses his power or any techs and relies on his Devour/MYC combo which causes him not to pressure anything. Even just after 1min I spotted so many misplays of that Wesker it is sad to watch.
Maybe watch a true Wesker God like Alranican, Crohmbs or even Numi or RGBThighSocks.
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Games with custom rules should never be used as an example for anything.
We should especially never use comp games as an example, that have so many custom rules that they aren’t evenly remotely close to resembling a public DBD game.
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If you look at the Wesker clip he posted above, you see that the killer rarely uses his power or any techs. This is a clear indication that they don't know the killer that well.
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But you cannot use a single example to say that the best players in this game basically have no clue what they are doing mate... Like how even ^^
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If you actually watched the VOD the eternal killer got 5 stages, then the killer from other team got a hook in end game with noed, they didn't have time to cleanse noed and to unhook so they just left, they could easily get out with 6 stages but they knew it's a loss with 6 stages so yes again max 6 hook stages.
A true god weskers who play on a region with worst players? As I said, wesker is weak against good players, show me a video of one of the 4 playing against a good eu team for example.
Right so by this logic if you allow everything the survivor will win always. They win even with half the perks banned because wesker is just a ######### overrated killer.
@LapisInfernalis Have you EVER faced a good player with wesker?
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The guy had all 3 hook stages left though, which makes it 8 hookstages, usually that's how it works and why they maybe should have let someone else go down to preserve those hook stages, makes it 8 in my book ... Or are the rules in that tournament different for some reason?
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You put the "u" in humoured. Well done!
@Raconteurminator is quite right about SWF groups making your idea inoperable. Something like half of all survs are in at least a two-man. All those blocks would add up to Nurse and Spirit and Blight players waiting eons for a match. And that wait would erode the matchmaking as well.
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But you're not supposed to rely on a playstyle that's completely ruined by certain killers, you have to be versatile to win consistently on either side. Stealth killers feel the same way about aura-reading, but that's the game.
Your whole team uses flashlights? I brought Lightborn, now your whole team plays differently or you lose. Rock breaks scissors, scissors cut paper.
You don't like paper, you like playing rock so you only want to play against people who play scissors. See the problem? Only a bot will play scissors in your game of Rock-Scissors.
Your playstyle is good against group-a, but not against group-b. You blacklist group-b so you'll win more, but group-a blacklists you because your playstyle make them lose more. Matchmaking stops.
Specializing can be great, but you gotta put 25% toward dealing with those killers that mess up your strategy or just accept those losses with grace and move on.
Imagine if killers could blacklist 3 perks, killrates would skyrocket.
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By my logic, if comp DBD wants to be taken seriously, it should get rid of the custom rules.
If this causes the escape rate to be extremely high, then so be it. If this causes some killers to have a win rate that’s less than 10%, then the DBD community should see that too.
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Comp already takes out many killers because it would be too boring to watch, which is fair... If nobody wants to see something they won't have viewers and the thing will just die, why would you force it?
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If Comp DBD had zero custom rules, it could greatly help the DBD community, by highlighting game balance issues that happen at the competitive level.
But right now, there’s zero worth in trying to use comp DBD games as evidence for game balance, because it has so many custom rules that it’s not even remotely similar to public DBD matches.
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SWF could permanently avoid four killers with this system - so Blight, Nurse, Spirit and a personal pick, furthering how oppressive those killers are as the only matches they'll ever get is SoloQ.
Even were you to consolidate the entire SWF into a single pick, Blight would still be made stronger under this system, for the same reason.
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Fair, but then you would need to rebalance everything and probably get rid of half the perks... And perks like old ruin or something like that would have never been changed, because on comp level it is not a problem... Neither was old Nurse ^^
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Well, no. I'm not saying the game should be 100% balanced around comp DBD.
What I am saying is that it's currently a complete waste of time for anyone to use the comp DBD as evidence for game balance. It's also a complete waste of time for DBD tier lists to involve comp DBD in any way, shape, or form. Like, seriously. We don't care which killers do well in comp DBD, because it's not representative of public DBD at all.
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If the point that gets brought up is that killer x is bad against good players than comp is basically an argument, but besides that sure, because of rules and all it is not necessarily a good argument otherwise...
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Yes. It has been a while, but I did.
To be honest your obsession with Wesker being bad is just funny.
Why do you insist on "those Wesker players would never stand a chance against a good EU team"? You know that if they were going against each other (assuming all those Weskers I mentioned are US; I know at least Alranicant is) one side would be at a disadvantage via latency? Those matches would never be fair.
Oh and BTW just assuming that EU are the dbd gods, because Team Eternal is from EU, doesn't say #########. You are just arrogant.
PS: Before you say anything: I'm EU too and have over 6.6k hrs mostly on Survivor, but I play enough killer to know how it s done. I have a fair amount of hours on Wesker as he's my Main, so I think I know what a good Wesker looks like.
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The idea is terrible and the discussion isn't even about the topic anymore but about DBD "comp".......
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I am only abused like an anonymity function even if I make a blacklist
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Yeah. Sry for feeding the troll.
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Ok then prove me wrong that wesker is not weak by going against me?
Also how is saying a killer is weak an obsession lmao.
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No. Killer queues go up, people play killer less, survivor queues go up, etc. This is equivalent to letting killers ban certain survivor perks.
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Because I am by far not the best Wesker out there. That would influence the data, and we can't have that.
Maybe ask Alranicant, Crohmbs or any other god Wesker out there to go against you if you need to.
You only stay to your opinion without even trying to understand other peoples' arguments. This seems to me a bit obsessive tbh.
I may not have used the right words in that case, as I am not a native speaker.
And that is all I will say to you about this. I can't have a good conversation with you anyway.
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