Let's talk about Unsportsmanlike conduct and how it treats players for "killing themselves on hook".

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24

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  • Ryuhi
    Ryuhi Member Posts: 3,733
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    You're purposely missing the forest for the trees. Multiplayer games can and do have ways of preventing one opponent from being able to play. including the aforementioned MOBAs. Singling out weak players on the opponents team is one of the best ways to snowball.

    The same goes for fighting games, where combos can deal more than half your health, and "touch of death" combos can kill you off of a single hit. FPS have spawncamping or straight up elimination (depending on the game/gametype) hell, even party games can involve ganging up on one person to prevent them from being able to play. The list goes on, but the point is that most of these things are not unique to DBD just because its an assym, and that in itself is a terrible comparison due to how cursed the genre is. How many assyms are still alive and getting updates? how many are on life support, and how many are straight up dead?

  • Grigerbest
    Grigerbest Member Posts: 1,334
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    We are fine, don't worry.=)

    We just exchange our different opinions.

  • Grigerbest
    Grigerbest Member Posts: 1,334
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    That was a pretty bad example, I'm not gonna lie. This was completely out of what I'm trying to say in this topic.=)

    How in the hell... Removing DC penalty is going to cure that? It's gonna make it worse. This problem is gonna be reduced only by removing the survivors ability to 4% and removing skill checks from second hook. DC penalty should NEVER GO OFF.

    That's it, end of story.

    And btw, didn't I just said in my first post about bots...

    "We have bots now taking over a player, so it should be ok to DC from a match" - As ridiculous as previous one, the game like HotS (Heroes of the Storm), there were the same "bot replacement" but the players were still getting banned for leaving the games. Personally I think the bots are not treating the problem, even for killers. (At least right now)

    I knew already that someone gonna bring up bots, I swear to God...

  • Pulsar
    Pulsar Member Posts: 20,727
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    Why not?

    You brought it up but never gave any reasoning for your opinion.

  • Grigerbest
    Grigerbest Member Posts: 1,334
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    You need to be more specific with questions, "Why not what?"

    And what exactly did I brought up that never gave a reason, you mean bots?

  • RoastedGarlic
    RoastedGarlic Member Posts: 532
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    Eh usually if im letting myself go on hook its for two reasons, the game is already over (3-5 gens still left and just two of us remain) or my team didn't bother going for the save anyway at that point they only have themselves for going down a teammate.

    yesterday i was in a game where a killer came back to face camp just so i could self unhook. Later he downed me, I fully recovered just needed another player to finish the pick up and I had a dwight teabag me on the ground and then hopped in a locker as I bled out.

    get used to survivors letting you down, its hard for them to bm the killer these days so they bm their own team instead.

  • Ariel_Starshine
    Ariel_Starshine Member Posts: 937
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    I asked for an official response before regarding if giving up on hook is unsportsmanship and I was told yes.

    I was told to even give up to give a mate the hatch is considered unsportsmanship, so I don't know what to think.

    If I have to afk and it's an emergency though, like someone hurt themselves, I'm sorry but not sorry, RL comes first. Period. Not some silly video game. That's taking it way too far.

  • Grigerbest
    Grigerbest Member Posts: 1,334
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    I didn't even mention that if something happened IRL in a safe reasons to DC, since it's a common sence.

    Not a single game matters more, than something happening in real life. It's not even a point of any discussions. It's a nature of gaming.

    And yes, as I said multiple times - "Giving up on hook just because you didn't like something about the match, should be considered as unsportsman like conduct".

    It should never be ok to ruin everyones match, just because you heard Nurse's blink at the beggining of the match.

  • Pulsar
    Pulsar Member Posts: 20,727
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    Yes, the whole removing DC penalty since we have bots. You pretty much said, "No that's bad." But never really gave anything other than that.

  • Malkhrim
    Malkhrim Member Posts: 935
    edited October 2023
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    And that is why I think it shouldn't be a bannable offense... but a survivor shouldn't be able to instantly die on hook. My suggestion: keep second stage skill checks, but that instant death that happens after missing two in a row should not happen if there's more than one survivor standing (not hooked, in the dying state or already dead). If there is only one survivor left beside you or everyone is already down, it makes sense to be able to immediatly die to save time and/or to open the hatch as soon as possible, but not to do it at the start of the game. The first hook stage can remain as it is today, as the 4% mechanic is a fun thing that should stay.

    As it is today, it's really problematic: intentional deaths on hook are a way for survivors to circumvent all the downsides of disconecting. They use a form of ragequitting that is worse than DCing (because it prevents bots from taking over), but they are incentivized to use this method because it allows them to circumvent all the downsides of DCing: the penalty and the denial of match rewards. Matches are ruined because of this every day. Players have complained about this for a long time, but now that we have bots, there's a bigger reason than ever to change this. Bots can't do their job if the player just dies intentionally on hook.

    Either way, thanks for commenting here and clarifying stuff for everyone, Mandy.

  • Grigerbest
    Grigerbest Member Posts: 1,334
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    My apologies for that.

    My personal opinion about current bots: They are as good as they don't exist.

    They are purposely missing skillchecks, they getting stuck, they bodyblocking other survivor players, and most common - they are VERY bad at loops. Basically - Now you have a "Ballast" in your team that you have to (or not) waste time saving on hooks.

    And because of that, they are practically makes no difference in the outcome of the match, sometimes even make worse.

    Even spectating them is just hilarious.

    Me and other players that I know, even some content creators don't like bots at all. They think the same as me, that they shouldn't have been added into the game. Since it's a very poor band aid to cover "UNBANABLE" DC's.

    In a HotS game that I mentioned they were even worse in terms of "Feeding the opponent". But still DCs were considered as a bannable offence. And they were very serious about that.

  • Pulsar
    Pulsar Member Posts: 20,727
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  • Nazzzak
    Nazzzak Member Posts: 5,050
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    It doesn't happen often enough in my games for me to care this much. If people are doing it consistently in your games, maybe you're doing something that makes them not want to play with you? I don't know. I've let go once in recent times and it's because a duo were trolling me and the other solo player. I'm not playing with folks like that.

  • radiantHero23
    radiantHero23 Member Posts: 3,641
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  • Foempticol
    Foempticol Member Posts: 232
    edited November 2023
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    Again, stop assuming things you don't know. You have no idea what you're talking about.

    Post edited by Foempticol on
  • Unknown2765
    Unknown2765 Member Posts: 2,013
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    Im sometimes so busy looking at what my team does, that i forget a skill check :)

  • SirCracken
    SirCracken Member Posts: 1,414
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    The criminally low amount of upvotes on this post speaks volumes about the DbD community's entitlement.

    Literally every other multiplayer game highly discourages if not outright punishes people who rage quit. But because the devs put in a mechanic that allows you to "lawfully" rage quit it's suddenly completely fine the ruin the game for everyone else in the match?

    Pure delusion.

  • Ayodam
    Ayodam Member Posts: 2,354
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    You dunno that people only die ‘early’ on hook due to rage quitting.

  • supersonic853
    supersonic853 Member Posts: 5,410
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    No but they do know if the mechanic didn't work that way they wouldn't be left with a 3v1 with 4 gens up. Its not fun as killer. Doubly as survivor. I wish in overwatch or tcm or other games i could say "im not having fun let me just die instantly" but thats not the case. You qued and those games keep you in until you die for good. Or the game ends.

  • Spare_Them_Mori_Me
    Spare_Them_Mori_Me Member Posts: 1,328
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    lol one of the issues is retorts like this. There's a problem. But instead of trying to address it, 'Just play another game'.

    No, I want this one to be better. But your suggestion is still valid lol

  • Rudjohns
    Rudjohns Member Posts: 1,893
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    Thats why I am emphasizing the "because of that" which goes back to what I said before: It's just a game, let people do whatever they want to do because at the end of the day, your life is not gonna change

  • Ayodam
    Ayodam Member Posts: 2,354
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    They could still be left with a 3v1. People could AFK, give themselves to the killer, or sabotage the game in other ways. You can’t force someone to play the game in a way you’d like—period.

  • Crowman
    Crowman Member Posts: 9,148
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    I think the silliest thing I saw, was someone saying that because DBD matches tend to be only 10-15 minutes, it's fine to let people quit whenever they want. But if someone can't commitment 10-15 minutes to play out a match, then why bother queueing up in the first place.

    Too many people are coddled by how easy it is to shop for the perfect match as survivor that they don't want to have to adapt.

  • Grigerbest
    Grigerbest Member Posts: 1,334
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    Have you ever seen people defending this type of behaviour in any other game?=)

  • supersonic853
    supersonic853 Member Posts: 5,410
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    How do games like cod or tcm or overwatch get you to? Not have a mechanic that lets you leave early. And if you try to sabotage through that. They ban you. Seems pretty cut and dry to me.

  • Grigerbest
    Grigerbest Member Posts: 1,334
    edited November 2023
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    Oh, so you having fun playing with bots in your team I suppose?=)

    Thank you for suggestion, let me give a suggestion in return=) : How about players will play the game till the end, and cut the "I can DC If I don't like this killer power"?

    As it should be.

    Post edited by EQWashu on
  • Grigerbest
    Grigerbest Member Posts: 1,334
    edited November 2023
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    If they don't wanna play, they should not even q into the match. If they still q and ruining matches for everyone - it should be bannable. Since they are doing so at their own risk.

    End of story.

  • Crowman
    Crowman Member Posts: 9,148
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    When I was an LoL player, if you disconnected from a game for any reason, you couldn't queue up for another game until the current one finished. Now this was tied to the fact you could rejoin a game in progress.

    Also I believe if you disconnect from a game in LoL or had the AFK leaver applied to you, even if your team won the game you got no rewards when it came to ranked queue.

    For DBD, BHVR just needs to remove the ability to expedite death on hook and improved the current AFK crow system to apply penalties to serial AFKers. Griefing and Trolling a game is already bannable so no more action needs to be done there. If this results in people leaving, because they can't quit out of games not going their way, that's for the best.

  • CountOfTheFog
    CountOfTheFog Member Posts: 1,951
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  • SirCracken
    SirCracken Member Posts: 1,414
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    The overwhelming majority of players who kill themselves on hook do so because are rage quitting. On rare occasions they do so to speed up the game when the killer has already won and is in the process of hooking everyone.

    But most of the time it's these highly selfish and entitled survivors that give the killer a free win in the first place by giving up on hook. And it's a damn shame than so few people in the community have no problem with this.

  • Grigerbest
    Grigerbest Member Posts: 1,334
    edited November 2023
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    I haven't noticed any differences in my recent matches. They are as bad as they were. And it's not even about it.

    I personally don't like playing with\against bots, in a pvp game where you supposed to play with\against other players.

    Not a single person I know having fun playing against AI dummys, In a game where you have to play against players.

    The only correct place for them to be is practice mode.

  • CountOfTheFog
    CountOfTheFog Member Posts: 1,951
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    They're worse. My last bot was a Claudette who wouldn't heal us and then hid at the killer shack AFK. 3 Crows.

  • Pulsar
    Pulsar Member Posts: 20,727
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    My bots were very decent for a while.

    Never missed skill checks, can't get mindgamed, etc etc

  • KolbyKolbyKolby
    KolbyKolbyKolby Member Posts: 619
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    The difference is that if I have an issue with blinds or FOV as a killer I can run Lightborn or Shadowborn. Whether I should have to use aperk to avoid things that make me sick is a different issue is another discussion, but I am able to remedy this in some way. Hell when it comes to light sensitivity, you can choose to dodge lobbies with flashlights altogether at no cost or penalty.


    As a survivor, if I get motion sickness from Clown gas, or feel ill from Plague vomit, or develop migraines from the Dredge darkness, I don't have any kind of perk I can run to avoid it. I have to suffer the ill effects from being in the match. The only option is to disconnect (penalized) or kill myself (no penalty). There's a distinct bias towards killers having ways to avoid this that survivors do not. Combine that with the fact that there's 4 players in a match that might have those valid reasons to leave compared to just one and you'll have higher count of it happening.


    Short of letting players avoid specific killers or removing the DC penalty, the only solution left is killing yourself on hook.

  • Grigerbest
    Grigerbest Member Posts: 1,334
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    My bots (I was a killer) were constantly making noises (notifications), failed skillcheks on healing teammates and got 1 guy sabboed by standing at the pallet. And they were keep vaulting the same little loop even after a hit.

    So who's in the right here? =)

    (Btw, I added some words into my previous comment to you)

  • Grigerbest
    Grigerbest Member Posts: 1,334
    edited November 2023
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    "Short of letting players avoid specific killers or removing the DC penalty, the only solution left is killing yourself on hook."

    Sorry, but... If someone having some medical illness from Clown or Plague as you've said, that just simply means that this game in unhealthy for them and they should stop playing it.

    The game can addapt to certain illnesses, I completely agree on that, just like we've had flashlight changes and cross with Clown.

    The game can addapt, but players might not want to. Just because you have an unfortunate illness, doesn't mean that you have the right to ignore the game punishments, and be treated differently.

    It may sound rude, but you can't make players to addapt to your personal needs.

  • Grigerbest
    Grigerbest Member Posts: 1,334
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    Are you even thinking about how many players leaving from this game because of DC-ers? Have you even thought about that?=)

    People are getting tired of this, getting tired because their matches being ruined, so what they do? They just simply don't wanna play anymore because of that.

    I left 1 MOBA game because of DC and afk issues.

  • Reinami
    Reinami Member Posts: 5,171
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