Buckle up & FTP nerf when?
Title says it all. Literally the most abused SWF perk combo in history.
Lol
Comments
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Don't understand why Buckle up doesn't have either cooldown(Soul Guard) or specific requirement(WGLF).
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It’s great against tunneling too not just swfs. Until tunnel off hook is made less rewarding, this combo should stay as is.
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And if the Killer doesnt tunnel and the Survivor still uses this combo?
"Because of X (problematic) is in the game, then Y (problematic) should also stay in the game" completely ignores the idea that either thing has a chance of not being present and should not be used for balancing (in my opinion).
Multiple things can be problematic, and they must be looked at independently of one another.
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While I get what you're saying, it's still incredibly punishing against non-tunneling killers as well. Even though it can be useful against tunneling, that alone doesn't justify its existence. I rarely tunnel as killer and still get put into lose-lose scenarios with this perk combo all the time. If anything, seeing this combo in my games makes me MORE likely to tunnel, not less likely.
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It should definitely be getting addressed, I just hope they won't nerf either perk in the process, because they are more than completely fine on their own, it is strictly their synergy that isn't. They simply have to do the same thing for Buckle Up that they did for Made For This, which is to make it not proc on FTP heals. That they haven't already done so is a bit mindboggling indeed, but then again, not really, there's plenty blatantly busted stuff in the game that's been there for years and years.
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The MFT + FTP interaction was a bug and that's the only reason it was removed (and why they haven't done it with Buckle Up). Since FTP requires you to be healthy and MFT requires you to be injured they were never supposed to work together. It was a bugfix, not a balance change. Buckle Up + FTP on the other hand needs a balance change (and the easiest solution imo is to just make FTP not count as a healing action for any purposes - both perks aren't affected on their own but the combo would no longer work).
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The combo definitely busted but it the only perk that do something vs tunneling. kinda want it to stay
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The most useful of the combo is first chase of the match, simply make it works outside the first chase. But how? Because each perk alone is fine. I dont know about BU, but I dont want them to touch FTP
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Effective against tunneling. Situational. Fun. We must nerf all (survivor) perk combos that synergize well !
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My point is that the justification that "this perk combo is healthy because Killers tunnel" is inherently flawed because people dont use this combo to prevent tunneling, they use it to undo the Killer's work and because it is a strong combo.
I literally just got done with a match where a SWF was using For The People + Buckle Up.
I never tunneled this match, yet half of the downs I got results in them getting a jail out of free card solely because of this perk combo. The idea that "Killers tunnel so it's fine to use it" does not apply here because I never tunneled, and the intent was to use the perk regardless if the Killer tunneled or not.
Worst part is that even if I went for the Mikaela, both Survivors can effectively just make free distance and I still get denied of a down/hook regardless; it feels awful to play against because you are put into lose/lose situations.
Also I think Buckle Up is solely the problem here. For The People is a good but niche perk, it does not need a nerf. Buckle Up does what Soul Guard and We're Gonna Live Forever does but has no cooldown or requirement like Safe Unhooks or Protection Hits, why use either perk when Buckle Up does the same thing but objectively better.
And frankly, I cant blame people for using the combo, it's strong, it's effective, and has limited counterplay that often puts the Killer into awful situations regardless.
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yeaah, buckle up should the perk with requirement instead of WGLF.
on top of that it shouldn't activate upon insta heals, MfT was specifically nerfed / patched after that to prevent that stupid synergy.
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surely it's only used against tunnelling killers, right?
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fun. FOR YOU. you are not versing an ai and bhvr has to consider both sides' fun while designing content.
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In a pie in the sky world, everything gets addressed at the same time. But that isn’t how this game gets balanced. In most cases it takes years. Tunneling has been an issue since day 1. Let them look at that again before touching the combo.
please point me to where I said that?
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Believe me, if I could single-handedly convince other players to play in a fun way and not be super sweaty every single game, I'd do it in a heartbeat. Unfortunately, it doesn't work that way.
I play more survivor than killer and being on the receiving end of a hard tunnel is frustrating. I get it. It's not fun for me to do it, nor is it fun to be the one getting tunneled. The thing is, there are really only two indirect counters to this perk combo (there are no direct counters). One is to be playing a killer that is good at keeping everyone injured consistently, which only a few killers can do and this isn't something you can change once the game has started. The other is to get the FTP + Buckle Up user out of the game after you see it once, so they can't use it again. It's incredibly boring and frustrating to be tunneled, but losing your down with zero counterplay is equally boring and frustrating. It has nothing to do with "soul searching", it's simply doing the only thing you can do in order to counter an unfair combo, though even then most of the time I won't do it because it's not worth it and I won't enjoy it regardless because I know how much I hate being tunneled on survivor. And a lot of the time it may not be the most effective strategy anyways. And ultimately, I don't care about winning every game, I'm perfectly okay with losing. The only thing I care about when I lose is losing knowing that I made one or more mistakes and/or that I could've done something better, which is almost always the case. Losing a significant amount of pressure to this perk combo doesn't make me feel that way. Nor do I feel that way when I get owned by Alch Ring/Compound 33 Blight at 4-5 gens. I want matches to feel fair and fun on both sides. This perk combo is not fair. And yes, the high effectiveness of tunneling should be addressed too. Doesn't mean this perk combo should stay untouched until tunneling is addressed because it's far from the only thing it's good at countering. Two things can be a problem at the same time.
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It's a pretty crazy combo and shouldn't exist in it's current state. However, I don't see it that often and it does require someone following the chase and not doing gens so it's not THAT bad in that respect.
Feels absolutely awful as killer to have a long-chase pretty much negated though, and after it happens, there's not really anything you can do because both survivors now have endurance.
Should just make FTP not proc stuff like that, same as with MFT. I understand people hate tunneling and this combo -does- help against tunnelling but it also works just as effectively against the killer regardless of who they're chasing.
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Let's just erase all survivor perks and items and just give killers free wins like tcm lol. Seriously tho is there any point where there can be a "meta" without tears?
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Literally the most exaggerated claim in history.
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you are trying to justify it because it is effective against tunnelling? what about other times it is used then?
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Nine out of ten people find bullying fun.
The fun-argument is invalid. Its nice that its fun for your survivor team, but for the killer, its downright painful and incredibly unfair. If it was only used in clear tunneling situations, then sure, but we both know that the players using that combo will try to use it in every possible situation, without any second thought whether its justified or how the killer might feel about it.
Old ds (before conspicious actions disabling it), Old mettle, real infinites, every busted mechanic is always very fun for the one using it. But that does not make it unproblematic.
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Nice observation, and so blatantly wrong.
FTP+BU was complained about alot, esp. when the change was made. It's no new phaenomenon. It Just did not have as much traction as the Mft complaints, bc it was still used rather sparingly.
And yes, pick rate IS a relevant Factor about whether to change a perk or not. If you face a very unpleasent combo maybe once every 10 games, than that may suck, but overall its bearable. But if its multiple times in every game, it certainly needs addressing.
So if mft nerf brings a skyrise of FTP+BU usage with it, the devs have to assess this situation and act accordingly.
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Low quality bait, try better.
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It’s not fun going against Pop + Pain Res + Surge + Whatever else literally every single game. I don’t sit and cry for nerfs in the forums for things I don’t like. I try to improve my gameplay so the annoying perks aren’t so noticeable.
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Y'all are throwing the word "abuse" around so lightly...
I know Buckle Up + FTP can be annoying but "the most abused SWF perk combo in history" is so delusional.
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It's not op you need perfect timing and you're not on gens, actually try it yourself before doing forum post you will see it's not that easy... also useless or detrimental against STBFL and everyone run it nowadays
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topic is not about those perks but still, they need to earn all these perks and if they are running all slow down and no info you can stealth to deny the down so the build is mostly useless. what do you need to do to get ftp buckle up value? press a button xd and there is literally nothing a killer can do to prevent it. run stbfl in case someone is running the combo? what about m2 killers?
Post edited by NerfDHalready on4 -
Think the cooldown in this scenario is the broken state.
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Not when its being abused.
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People are abusing this combo even if the killer is not tunneling.
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Nah that's just a bad way to balance especially when you look at tunneling is the ONLY way to keep up with survivors that spread on gens and most of the killer roster.
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I think it's fine.
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"Abused"
Also known is Killer language to others as "stuff Survivors use just to try to win and that's not allowed"
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Make buckle up only give endurance to the picked up survivor and buff WGLF to give endurance to both survivors, since you need to jump through hoops to get WGLF's endurance effect that makes it fair that its the stronger effect, FTP buckle up would still be an ok combo but now you can just target the survivor who used it for more counterplay
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yeah, it need a change in some way but it also need to retain it strong anti tunnel capability. Someone made a post a while back saying the endurance should only effect the person being pick up. I think thats a reasonable nerf.
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I have always thought that devs should make use of ''token perks'' more often, buckle up should have something like 2 tokens, you use it once you lose a token, you use it twice and its gonne for the rest of the match..
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This argument goes both ways, right? A tunneling killer against survivors without these two perks is incredibly punishing.
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Tunneling is too effective and does need to be addressed, yes.
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Difference is that survivors just have to squat for their progress, the killer actually has to do something real for theirs.
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Funny because I tunneled a person out today as pyramid head for using the combo against me. I rarely tunnel ever as I’m pretty relaxed when playing killer. 🤷♂️
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The combo is still overtuned regardless of the state of the game.
Either an Endurance duration nerf or status debuffs would be warranted.
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Well, if people argue that it's an anti-tunneling perk, then buckle up would be fine if it only worked on the survivor that got picked up and only when it's used on them within, say, 30 seconds of being unhooked, right? That seems like a fair nerf to me.
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MFT getting and nerfed and I already told my friends Killer mains would complain about this combo as next. So predictable and so tired of your killer mains complaining about every survivor perk.. don’t forget about ‘windows’ crutch as well that has be too be nerfed soon as well
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I never thought i would see the day someone asks for a buckle up nerf.
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we wouldn't expect eruption complaints either in ruin meta but they went overboard with the buffs on both these perks. actually buckle up by itself is fine but they overlooked its synergy with ftp which is not okay at all.
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Never no reason just wait 10s if they vault grab them
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Okay then. Had four games in a row yesterday while playing Naughty Bear where I'm playing against predrop squad, and when I finally get my first down 3 gens deep, out comes Zarina with funny 10s endurance perk that undoes all my progress while I'm in hit cooldown.
Needless to say, I switched to Blight and played like my life depended on it. And all of sudden, everyone is giving up on first down.
By all means, keep your broken combo, but you're gonna see the worst of me. You don't get to whine about killers sweating while bringing broken garbage that makes killers sweat. At the end of the day, killers want a fair chance to win also. You don't get to have your cake and eat it too.
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god forbids survivors to have good perks
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Survivors have plenty of good perks. Any exhaustion perk is a good perk. As is Chem Trap, Any Means, Blast Mine, Adren, Inner Strength, Alert, Autodidact, Bond, Botany, Overzealous etc etc.
In fact, I think survivors have more good perks than not. What people don't want is survivors having BROKEN perk combos like, say, a combo that gives you and another person 10s endurance, that can be instantly applied to a slug while killer is still in wipe animation, that only requires you to be close to the person when they go down. Just the same way, I'm sure you wouldn't want killers to have a perk that instantly downs you when you're working on a gen.
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original and thoughtful comment. thank you
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you can't grab a fast vaulting or pallet dropping survivor :) hope this helps with your issue.
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