What do you think is genuinely unfair in this game?
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Agreed. It's really the only majorly unfair thing I can think of. Pointless matches happen way too often. Why even put a sweaty quad slowdown 4k hr Blight against a pu pu platter solo team whose hours range between 500-1000? That result is predetermined. There's going to be no variance. That match could be played 20 times and the only escapes would be via hatch. Why make the match? Obviously the flipside exists between sweaty 4 stacks and average killer players.
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The HUD was purely about bridging the gap between solo and swf. It gives info that swfs can communicate. Nothing to do with bad players suddenly playing better, it simply helps inform decision-making if they choose to use it.
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SWF teams getting all the killer location tracking perks for free that solo q teams have to spend perks slots on (and better yet knowing exactly where killer is at all times), knowing which gens should (and shouldn't) be worked on, knowing where pallets have been dropped, knowing where to go to heal injured teammates, being in exactly the right position to get a pallet stun, being in exactly the right position to get a flashlight save, being in exactly the right position to block a door or take a protection hit.
SWF is never going away, but let's stop pretending that it's not a massive advantage for the survivor side. Let's also stop pretending that these types of teams are rare. They're not, at least in my experience.
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map offerings
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I won't say things are unfair, but some things are cheap. Tunneling and NOED are both really cheap.
I can work really hard to finish 5 gens and then you get easier downs because you brought a perk? Yes I can cleanse all 5 totems if I get breathing room during the match to find them, but that doesn't always happen.
Tunneling is cheap because I'm already injured and at a disadvantage. "Hur dur, you get endurance when you get off the hook." like that's ever stopped any tunneling killer, they just wait it out.
I don't really find anything as annoying as those two when I'm playing killer. I barely saw/see MFT+ buckle up, so meh.
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Nurse/Blight: Agreed, these two are the most broken thing currently in the game, far more problematic than MFT. If there are like only 8 survivors in the entire world that can win against a killer who reached a certain skill ceiling, then it really should be clear they need a huge nerf.
Bubba: A REALLY good Bubba can be super oppressive in chase with Bamboozle, but his 4vs1 isn't strong enough to warrant a real nerf. He is in a pretty good spot right now, especially with the new map designs in the Clutter Ahoy! philosophy BHVR has embraced.
Adrenaline: It's one of those perks that can be devastating on SFWs, especially if it's all 4, but it's almost completely worthless in SoloQ and it's a perk banked for endgame. I would class it as strong, but not quite problematic.
Windows: The perk is fine, maps aren't.
HUD: Have you even played SoloQ in the last couple of months? If anything Kindred basekit should be added ON TOP of the HUD staying. Killer aura and all that. SoloQ has never been so miserable to play and I've been stuck in it for years now.
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They released official stats on that and they are rare my man xD The majority of people is solo queue next comes a huge amount of 2 man's and 3 or 4 men swf are incredibly rare, I think combined it was less than 10 % which makes them really rare... So either you had bad luck, or you just falsely assumed it... Because on average you don't get them often...
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They released stats? May you teach me where can I see it?
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Ok...
First things first: bubba has enormous amounts of counterplay. It's literally a skill issue if you think otherwise.
Whats truly unfair....
Right now:
Some tiles against m1 killers. That means 4.6 movement speed no power used.
Tiles like longtiles on coldwind (cowshed), many main buildings, cow tree and the biggest offender: shack.
Otherwise: mft. It's straight up an unfair against weaker killers. But that won't be such a problem anymore next patch.
Other than that. Not really.
You could say the usual: Blights addons and Nurse with slowdown or aura reading but that's beating a dead horse at this point.
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It has been a while since then, I didn't find the post they released back then only a German article on it, that referred to it you can have it if you want? Basically around 5% 4 men swf, a little bit more 3 men and around 54% solo q... I thought there was a newer one as well, because I didn't play back then, the whole thing is 4 years old from mid 2019,and I started a bit later than that... I thought they released one in 2021 or so? But maybe I remembered wrong and time goes by...
Here is the data from back then I don't really see a reason why that would have changed... And while searching for it I found an old post where peanuts said that escape rates between full on swf and solo don't differ too much, only around 5-7% between full solo and 4 men swf... Don't know however how accurate it is these days... (if you want I can try to find that one as well and link it)
https://mein-mmo.de/dead-by-daylight-statistiken-toedlichster-killer/
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Took me ages to find... I was rather sure that there was also a newer one... I only found that one since I had a rough date from the article I showed you before... So maybe in all the developer news there are still some more stats? I was rather sure that a newer one existed, but I'm also not willing to search through 3 more years of dev notes in the hope of finding something... Well it is what it is...
If there is some mod or dev or veteran player that can confirm whether or not there has been newer data, that would be nice ^^
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Thank you for sharing!
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Ok my thoughts.
i honestly have no issues with anything you said a as in I don’t agree.
im 60% survivor | 40% killer.
i have no issue with nurse. She has plenty of counter but just not as much as other killers and her counter is simple. You have to play against her, the exact opposite of how you play against a normal killer because playing loops normally is predictable. In fact, play like this with every killer.
i have no issues with Blight except his double speed add ons. They make him overpowered. Everything else is fun.
yes I play Survivor most and I have no issues with the “OP busted” killers.
the thing I feel is unfair is BHVR’s and the communitys hypocrisy surrounding MFT.
its adds 3% haste - yes, it is strong. That’s ok.
its ok to have a strong perk, the same way I feel its ok for a killer to be really strong. It has to have one condition. A high skill need.
you do not load into a game with nurse and win. You have to be good.
you do not load into a game with blight and win. You have to be good.
you do not load into a game with MFT and win. You have to be good.
for some reason it is ok that a killer can stack PWYF, Rapid Brutality, NOED, Batteries Included. Get value out of all haste effects, have them stack, get a few kills or win - but a survivor cannot have 3% haste when INJURED.
its ok that Nurse ignores the core mechanics of the game, but a survivor with MFT is OP.
Its ok that a tombstone Myers can have and keep 3 stacks of PWYF all game, but 3% is op.
its ok that SM can randomly get a 5% haste effect because Claudette in the other side of the map entered a beam but 3% whilst injured is OP.
its ok that Boon: Dark Theory can give you 2% haste for nothing, but 3% whilst injured is OP.
its ok that BHVR has just gone on a roll with buffing killers with new ways to get haste effect (all at least 5%) trapper, SM, Trickster, Alien, Chucky but 3% whilst injured is OP.
let me make this clear. I never used MFT. I like my lith/SB. But I DID go against it.
Id be happy if it was nerfed/deleted if the same principle was applied to both sides but it’s not.
the average kill rate is around 60-62%. This means if you load in as a survivor, you already only have a 40-38% chance of escaping. MFT didn’t win games, it just raised that percentage.
again, let me reiterate. IM OK WITH THE NERF TO MFT. I’m not ok with the hypocrisy.
killers would have MFT in there lobby and NOT complain because they didn’t win, they would complain because they didn’t 4k. Whilst having a 2-3k. Which I would say is balanced.
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for me its map tile rng. sometimes you get the most busted tile spawns ever forcing you to leave chase. or you get dead zone after dead zone lol
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I mean Dark Theory needs to be set up at a totem, you need to be looping around that area, the loop needs to be still close enough for the effect to be taken into account but not close enough for the killer to easily stomp it. And even with all those conditions it is still 1 % less speed than mft which activates when you get injured, at state that will happen unless you are going against a one shot down killer, and even then you can use it after getting downed once.
I find it kind of problematic that MFT gives you more but has less conditions for its value to be taken into account.
I wouldn't say that those haste buffs for killers are Ok, they are better than nothing, I guess people would have loved to have different changes that play into the qualities of those killers more than just slapping a haste on top of it and calling it a day, but then again at least it is something. (Also many people complain about Trickster being 4.6 m/s so I wouldn't call it generally ok). Those buffs are just a lazy way out of it when you cannot figure out something else to make the killer better.
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I think maybe I didn’t explain properly. I’m ok with all buffs and changes to killer. I see no issue - only if the same rule/leniency was applied to survivor.
im ok with killers being extra strong with extra strong perks (I play killer) I just hate that it’s ok for killers but not for survivors. So if it gets taken away from survivors then it should be taken away from killers too.
you can smell the hypocrisy when killers (even big streamers like Otzdarva) where complaining because Haste stacks for survivors (Hope+MFT) meanwhile, at the exact same time, haste also stacked for killers. They where saying it’s unfair that survivors can stack haste. Whilst stacking it themselves.
it was vile. And I just feel like the community was gaslighted into thinking that MFT made a massive difference because I also experienced it. It really wasn’t an issue unless I had a god looper which tbh, would’ve looped me anyways regardless.
It was just hypocritical which then made it one sided rather than balanced.
so my gripe is not that MFT was nerfed. But that MFT was nerfed just because (let’s be completely honest) Killer mains made complaints.
the same is happening with STBFL. I love this perk, I see no issues. It’s strong - deal with it. It’s been in the game since the beginning but all of a sudden it’s not a rare strong perk - now it’s “OP” and needs to be nerfed. Unless something literally brakes the game, there should be no reason to nerf something. If BHVR does nerf something, then they should have a good reason as people also pay money for these perks.
and with the buff to Trickster - before he was mid, now he will definitely be top. Even this is hypocritical. Look at poor Freddy. He was strong yes, got a massive nerf. He is now below what Trickster was, but he ain’t getting a 500% buff to his kit……
I just wish they would get a design philosophy and actually STICK to it.
its ok to announce to Killer mains “shut up, we’re not nerfing it, its fine. You also have similar strong perks” and say the same to survivors. MFT had plenty of counters. Killers just needed to actually be bothered to switch their 4 gen slowdown build up and they would have found the game more enjoyable.
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The difference is though that MFT was/is a strong perk, whereas perks that make killers faster have conditions or are only for a limited amount of time... For example not being able to gain bloodlust or having to start a chase with the obsession. This makes it harder to get and keep. Whereas MFT only required you to be injured.
Also I wouldn't make this about killer mains complaining, the perk was just generally busted and play with your food for example is niche at best. Perks that mess with movements peed are always problematic since they change which tiles you make and what distance you gain.
It is not necessarily hypocrisy it is much rather that the impact of MFT is just higher than the impact of the killer perks, because you get it rather regularly.
The stacking haste thing is a different issue, because basically in end game you just cannot catch up if they do... Whereas if killer does you still do have a chance to loop, it is harder for sure, but it is not straight up impossible... If you are a 115% killer and you chase a 110% survivor he will be able to run across the entire map and won't even start a chase because too much distance, that is really problematic. And like I said before haste perks for killers are mostly not even that good... Aliens perk for example seems, at least for me, to be somewhat decent on Singularity but otherwise loosing bloodlust is quite massive.
There is no gas lighting there, MFT did make aassive difference because it gave you more time to get around the loop, changing how effective mindgames and loops in general were and even worse players could benefit from that, unless ofc they were bran new.
I thought Freddy was on their list? But I don't know, I also don't believe Trickster changes are going to go live like this, but we will see.
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The way addons work for both survivors and killers. Taking high level addons feels like I made an unfair game. I love the concept of being able to vary up how to play, but really dislike that some addons are just vastly stronger than others (and not in a 'oh, the devs messed up' sense, that they were designed to be stronger).
Also, any non-bloodpoint offering. Not as common, but if I hit 4 survivors spreading out the hooks it just feels silly.
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Everything this person said... 100% agree. Bubba has counterplay, adrenaline is too situational and as far as "little effort" all gens have to pop so it has to be earned, and for the HUD, as a soloQ survivor, I get SO much value from this. If you want the game to be balanced on the survivor side easier they have to close the gap between soloQ and SWFs as much as possible. Otherwise, they make things stronger for soloQ and its too strong for SWFs. If they nerf something too strong for SWFs then soloQ suffers. SoloQ having some of the same info available to them SWFs have, bridges the gap somewhat. And do some bad players not give a crap about what's going on in the HUD? Sure. But there are a lot of us who actually use it so the bad players will play poorly either way, who cares?
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Some exhaustion perks namely Sprint burst and lithe are just unhealthy for the game. This game is BASED around the movespeeds given to survivors and killers but then having those 3 seconds of faster movement than a killers base movespeed is just a hinderance to balance.
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Myers tombstone. It doesn't get more unfair than that.
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Windows is unfair? you just lack skill probably.
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Redhead's Pinkie Finger + Cheap Gin Bottle for the Clown, even with the nerf it’s still -1 bottle (3 total) in exchange for direct hits causing exposed insta-downs, it’s crazy and my go to when I need to get challenges like get 4 kills.
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Buying a character for a perk only for the perk to change into garbage and not being refunded for what you just moments ago bought is unfair.
Solo queue teammates using bond empathy to track and sandbag you to team with killer and not having anything to counter it is unfair.
Bringing a flashlight and losing the flashlight in a match that the killer brought lightborn is unfair.
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