STBFL isn't a good perk on Demogorgon or Ailen. Change my mind.

I'm not sure if you understand the reason why it's good. You can use the M2 to avoid losing stacks. There are also plenty of times when your M1 attack is a better option, especially for Xeno.

I used it on Xeno.

But not for chase.

I use it to have a very short cooldown when breaking turrets.

Bombrush a turret with m1 and you barely lose any distance in chase. Very useful.

Not optimal but useful.

People can use what people want to use.

Do I say : "don't use windows because you actually stop learning maps!"?

No, because people can use what people want to use.

If STBFL made these Killers weaker, people would stop running the perk over time.

Does that actually work? From what it seems when I play Xeno breaking turrets seems to count as a 'missed' attack as if you were to hit a wall, kind of like Dredge breaking locks. So I don't think STBFL would affect that.

Random?

This post is about people that use Stbfl on killers with a chase ability.

Case and point: Demo and Xeno

My point to that discussion is, that anybody can use these perks. Nobody should be shamed for their choice of perks.

And believe me, I've seen a lot of shaming while playing both of them with Stbfl.

Ok.

I have 8 stacks of Stbfl. I hit a non obsession. They don't even exit my shred radius. The second part of the chase is therefore less than a few seconds.

If this is not strong, I don't know what to tell you.

Of course you couldake the argument, that other perks like deadlock would give more value, due to the fact, that Stbfl has to be build up. But some people (myself included) enjoy the ultra lethal demo you get with rat liver + 8 stacks Stbfl.

It's fun to play.

Both killers use it well. Although, I would say there are better perks on Xenomorph. On Demogorgon it is a really good perk. M1 into M2 with 8 stacks almost resembles an insta down, so that is definitely good. There are also a number of loops where his shred isn't all that amazing, so you will be forced to play a fair share of M1 killer anyway.

coup is a perk to play dropped pallets. xeno, nemesis and demo are suppose be killer where their special attack allows them to play pallets. Demo and Nemesis are not good at playing pallets. Shred is like Coup the grace but has 0.65-1 second cast time. Lunge attacking has no cast time. Nemesis is not good at playing pallets because the survivor can crouch his tentacle strike due to cast time. In addition, nemesis also has to hit survivor 3 times to down them in first two chases. What in common with Demo and Nemesis is both of them have pallet breaking base-kit. The problem is that their pallet breaking is too slow to be meaningful in many instances especially if survivor is pre-dropping pallets at the correct time.

Xeno is excels at getting hits at dropped pallets. Uniquely, his tail strike does not break pallets like Nemesis and Demo. Because hitting survivors at dropped pallets is more time efficient then breaking them, xeno tends to be best out of the 3 killers. He doesn't need coup because his tail strike is better Coup. Nemesis and Demo can use Coup but your rejecting their ability by using Coup which is counter-productive to playing the killer. Your better off playing some other killer than using Coup.

Just because you equip a perk does not mean you should hyper prioritize stacks when it is not possible. You should always prioritize your m2 and then calculate whether it is possible to get m1 to increase stack count.

that is my point. Demo and Nemesis are not good at playing pallets but Coup is a perk to try to play dropped and undropped pallets. your better off breaking the pallet even though demo and nemesis have poor pallet breaks that accomplish nothing when survivor is good at linking pallets.

You undervalue the ambush a bit.

Someone lost against a Demo with STBFL.

he's completely right stbfl is just a trap for new players and they never learn how to use the power and these types of killers are made to use their m2 over m1

You have yo gear a blindfold, noise removing headphones, and be sensory deprived in order to manage to get hit by pig ambush. Prob the easiest to dodge special attack.

This is a wildly overstated case.

STBFL is a little overrated on Demogorgon, but it's definitely still strong. Combine it with the Black Heart and Barbs Glasses addons, and you've got a very aggressive Demo that doesn't let up in chase. Perfectly useful, and quite strong.

I'll say it is a lot less useful on Nemesis and Xenomorph because, unlike Demo, their M2 actually hits in places that Shred doesn't due to them hitting over obstacles, but it's still... fine? It's fine. Nemesis probably wants to use it least so he can build up his Mutation, two conflicting build-up mechanics at once is probably inefficient, but it's not as though you can't get value from it all the same.

I don't know why some people think equipping STBFL means you're necessarily ignoring your M2. You have to use both in most games for most killers (at least the ones discussed here), so it's clearly just a net gain for whenever you do have to use your M1.

when i play demo and survivor is good and loops m1 well but gives me opening shred, my average stbfl stack is 3-4. Sometimes, I could be like 3-4 hooks in with 3-4 stacks. that does not mean that stbfl is a bad perk on those killers. It just means that survivor is countering your opportunities to m1. The reason why black heart is bad add-on for demo is because it does not reduce thresholds enough where survivor does not make it to another loop. It is 3 stack of stbfl. If you think stbfl is bad on demo because your getting 3 stacks, why do you think getting 3 stacks of stbfl on your power is suddenly good? It is not good.

the reason stbfl is good is because there possible threshold of 8 stacks where stbfl really saves a lot chase time on killer end. M2 killers with reliable power will never go down in stacks and will only go up. The advantage of these killers is they're able to hit & run with the perk. Your allowed to detach chases with the perk. With other m1 killers, you are NOT allowed to detach chases when you use this perk. this is because you have 1/4 chances to find obsession. If you don't have power to mitigate the drawback then the perk's drawbacks makes you tunnel vision which is why some killer player dislike STBFL as a perk. they don't like loss of freedom for who they chase. you can try mitigate drawback by using tracking perk to ensure you find non-obsessions but if obsession bodyblock you than perk quickly becomes irrelevant. @jesterkind point is that you will eventually make the perk relevant over-time even if it does not produce game-winning effect every single game. that is why he says that it is possible that another perk could be better slotted from a player subjective point of view.

My main build for Demogorgon features Save and I think it's all right. Like everyone has said, for killers that have the ability to deal health-state damage without triggering token losses, Save is best used on those killers! [I don't have Xenomorph or Nemesis.]

I also like Save on Deathslinger. Nothing is more gratifying than M1ing and immediately following up with a landed shot for a reeled down before survivors can run away.