http://dbd.game/killswitch
Hot Take: For the People is useless without Buckle Up
I know so much people hates this combo but seriously who used For the People before? Almost nobody. This perk was seen very rarely in trials and it was doing nothing.
Only times i used it for help my teammates who gets tunnelling. But even in this case, it was pretty meh. You used perk and then killer just m1'ed and all value is just gone. And plus, now you are broken and you are easy target too.
If killer is slugging survivors, there is better perks to counter it. Unbreakable and WGLF. For the People was rare perk for a reason. It never had good use in any case and it gave good value very rarely.
Let say, BHVR changed these perks and now they are not working together. So who will use For the People again? or Buckle Up? Nobody. Because both perks are bad when you use them alone. They shine only when you use them together.
And it's not like there is no counter. It's pretty much has some counter of BT. We count and hit. And it's not free perk, survivor is using 2 perk slots for this combo and they are giving health state for use.
Edit:
I am not saying this combo should stay as it is. I am fine if they nerf this perks won't work together. But this will bring us to back where Buckle Up and FtP never used in trials because both of perks are weak when you use them alone. So all i am asking is that: If we are gonna nerf this combo, both perks should take a bit buff for make them viable.
Comments
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Saying Buckle Up and For The People only shine when used together is like saying gasoline and a spark only shine when they're together. They do more than shine, they're downright disastrous and unhealthy. It doesn't matter if it's a two-perk combo, the resultant effect leads to scenarios where it's literally impossible to counter.
If For the People is useless by itself, the answer is to buff it and make it stand on its own as a perk.
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for the people is fine without buckle up.
it's a tool used to instantly heal a teammate after the hook to combat tunnel and take aggro from them or to pick up a slug if killer went away from them.
buckle up + ftp combo is braindead and unacceptably aggressive with how little counterplay it provides and how punishing it is for the killer for no real reason.
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I am fine if they buff both perks to be viable by their own. But i am not with the people who just want to kill these perks.
Rght now, if BHVR break this combo both perks will be garbage to use alone. If they take care this problem, i am not against to nerf this combo.
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At least it's counterable unless Ultimate Weapon.
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this might be a bit wild thought for you, but it's fine if devs kill perks, because they're just perks, not actual characters with abilities people get invested in and buy skins for.
if a perk is unhealthy and there's no fixing it without a really deep rework, it's better off dead or nerfed so hard, it's unviable, rather than kept because "muh muh we cant just kill perks". no, we can and we will, because people will just pick other perks that might be just a bit more healthier for the game.
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The problem of Buckle Up + FTP is a far greater one than both perks being mediocre if the combo is nerfed. You shouldn't be against the nerf of something objectively unhealthy for the game just because niche perks will go back to being niche perks. Mediocre perks can always be buffed, them being mediocre won't ruin the game in either the short term or long term. The priority should be killing off the combo, like it was with Eruption + Overcharge.
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No, it's not fine to kill perks. At least they need to be viable.
Like there is zero reason to use For the People if you don't have Buckle Up. This just shows For the People needs buff if we are gonna nerf this combo. But you are free to disagree, i am not gonna try to change your mind.
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sounds like you are just unable to appreciate the value of some perks if they aren't blatantly unfair. im also feeling like your definition of "killing" perks is taking away that unhealthy interaction. im almost sure if I dig into your post history, ill find you complaining about mft nerf, saying how they "killed" the perk.
i listed the usages of for the people in this thread which every sane person would agree are fine and make this perk decent in certain scenarios. it doesnt need zero valid counterplay unfair synergy with another perk to be viable.
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I've no problem with the ftp+buckle up combo.
No, it's not fine to kill perks. At least they need to be viable.Conceptually, I wish this was true, but realistically its not. Given the sheer number of perks in the game, and that DbD tries to be balanced around soloq and SWFs, its just not possible.
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Oh noooo
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That's something i can agree , i just don't like them to kill perks and make us have even less variation. Like if they nerf this combo to not work together but buff both perks a bit, i will be fine.
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I am not defending this combo. I am fine to nerf them.
All i am asking to make them viable after this combo gutted. I don't wanna have less variation of perks. Already most of perks have no use in trials.
Post edited by Rizzo on0 -
I actually agree FTP is a pretty bad perk without Buckle Up.
For a while I kept saying FTP needs to be a health state transfer instead of "healing" for the purpose of perk interactions... before realising that totally kills the perk.
It seems like one of those perks that would always be bordering useless/overpowered. If you allow "healing" interactions, you have to factor it is for every healing based perk you ever create... if you don't, the loss of a health state isn't really worth it except for very niche scenarios that won't be common enough to bother taking.
If we go ahead with the health transfer instead of healing idea to prevent potentially broken perk interactions, it needs something else to make FTP viable.
A nutty idea I read the other day (I don't remember where) was to allow survivors to trade hook states. The idea suggested only allowing a survivor to transfer a hook state either way 1 time, so once you've taken or given a hook state, that's it, you can't do it again. This means a SWF for example could only do it 2 times as a team, which makes sense as otherwise it'd be busted AF.
It could be given to FTP, so if you go to a survivor on hook, you can use FTP to transfer a hook state to help prevent tunneling. The killer would see the sacrifice progress change if they pay attention, so they now know to go for the survivor who unhooked, so smart killers wouldn't be fooled by it.
However that doesn't mean the FTP player has to unhook, so if you can successfully hide who it was who sacrificed the hook state that has potential... and between being able to clutch anti-slug, and clutch anti-tunnel, that might see FTP be a perk that has enough potential to make its way into some builds.
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Ftp and buckle up have counter play just wait ten seconds!
Most survivors body block the first 5 seconds.
Just wait!!!
Or body block them so that they can‘t reach a window/pallet.
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That is simply not true.
There are truely only very few perks that are useless.
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Its only if that random teammate downs on the other side of window/pallet and you're healthy.
Most of the time, I barely able to use the perk. Especially STBFL is accumulate with 10% reduced base cooldown M1 makes the perk so popular, I could use the perk but unable for both to reach to the next loops.
FTP alone is hardly used. Though with BU the protection to both is too much, combines with MFT is more fair.
I think Buckle up should give both Haste instead of Endurance. So to make the combo useful, it should be FTP (to instant heal) + Buckle up (for Haste) + WGLF / MFT (for Endurance either you or teammate), or both perk to protect both of you.
Haste buff also fit with the perk name.
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Honestly I kinda liked the old combo of FTP soul guard back when the silent hill chapter came out
and there was also the FTP + WGLF combo that just went extinct
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I'm really don't want to criticize another survivor combo perk, but its hard to say that For The People + Buckle Up is a healthy perk combo. I'm starting to see people using this combo in soloQ (doesn't require too much coordination) , which used to be a only SwF clutch perk combo.
I think for the People by itself is a great perk, as it can draw aggro from the killer in key moments of the match. Think in this situation: you just unhooked a friend who has OFR. The killer comes to the hook to tunnel. You use For The People in your friend. Now the killer has to go through 3 health states to tunnel the unhooked person.
People in comp can turn matches with For The People , specially when the killer needs desperately to get a kill.
Anyway, i hope the devs adress this FTP + Buckle up combo soon, even if it requires buffing those perks separately
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Like there is zero reason to use For the People if you don't have Buckle Up
That's not entirely true.
It's not a good perk, certainly, but it's not terrible either. Shifting a health state instantly can still be valuable in certain situations. If the killer is tunnelling off hook, if the unhooker FTPs the tunnel target, that allows them one extra hit. Additionally, being able to pick up a survivor instantly can make a difference.
My proudest play ever was when me and another Felix were running away from the killer in the badham preschool basement. The killer downed him just as he passed a pallet, and I doubled back to instantly pick him up with FTP, after which he slammed down the pallet, and we were able to make good distance.
FTP is situational, but at least what it offers in power in those situations does make it strong enough to pull it out of the fire, unlike a lot of other situational perks.
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ftp is a situational perk and the opportunity doesn't always arise but when it does, it's not that bad. it's good if the killer is tunnelling a teammate or if they are slugging, even if it's a short slugging action; you just can't get people up safely under the killer's nose.
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FTP is good on its own, but it takes situational awareness and knowing when to use it, as well as being confident and competent enough to deal with its downside.
Reading your OP, you don't seem to be using it effectively at all, as you've stated the killer is able to instantly reduce your value from it.
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regular FTP is a perk to suicide for someone else when they are lower hook-state than you. for example, if someone is on death hook and your at 0 hook, it is better if killer hooks you at 0 hooks then teammate. it can also be used to prevent bleed out timer but secondary effect is irrelevant. Buckle up mitigates drawback of the perk because killer can hit FTP to get free slug. people did not use FTP because the benefits were not high enough and you required a lot of swf-level coordination to pull off the gameplay. Now the gameplay is easy to use so much so that even soloq pull the combo off as there is no risk to activating it.
Buckle up is viable on its own. It is just that it is anti-slugging perk. there is no reason to equip it because your unlikely to die to slug, your more likely to die by hooks so anti-tunneling perk is more useful. what makes combo strong is that you can use anti-slug mechanic aggressively to reap an advantage. It is like using OTR or DS+Unbreakable or base-kit BT to body block killer.
It is FTP that is not that good on its own. They cannot buff FTP by itself because only buff that makes it bad is exact drawback of costing a health-state. In many ways, the combo is at exact power-level that it is designed to be at but killer don't like this because you can use it as anti-tunnel mechanic and unlike DS or OTR that are limited by 1 or 2 uses, this one works as many times as you can heal. So it can repeatable be used on same person over and over to prevent any hooks. The only time you have any counter-play as killer player is when everyone is injured.
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Without Buckle Up, FTP is only useful in 2 situations
-The killer is hard tunneling and you want to heal the unhooked survivor so they can have more of a chance and buy more time for the team
-The killer has Make Your Choice
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Exactly, for example they can make it incompatible with Buckle Up but also allow you to pick yourself up if you get downed during broken, allowing you to help someone getting tunneled without the risk of getting slugged for long time.
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That's how perks work, every perk is relatively situational, the problem with these "meta" perks is that they have value every game and everyone is so used to it.
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Other perks like...the already insanely broken and overused meta...fun...
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FTP is great if you have a self heal build and resilience. You can injure yourself by instantly healing a teammate and get 9% gen repair speed, heal yourself 99% and do gens.
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Killer's perks are not situational
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Little counterplay?
- Hit someone within 11m following a chase with a free hit, especially if doubling back at walls/corners.
- Spread the pressure from the onset, keeping multiple Survivors injured/hooked so they are unwilling to take aggro.
- A shadowed chase yields 33% gen slowdown, accept the 10% better Pentimento for free.
- Even if the Survs activate the combo the Killer still has multiple choices:
- Deep Wound either (or both) Survivor(s) to prevent additional Endurance procs.
- Choose who to chase based on positioning/hook states/Broken Status and pick the better of the two for that circumstance.
- Wait out the 10s and bodyblock chokepoints (windows/pallets/doorframes).
FTP+BU is only frustrating because it shows a personal failure to account for the scenario. That doesn't frustrate me because I can play better, and learn to improve. I can't make someone else better, but I can make myself better. I say this as a Ghosty main who is doubly hurt by a healthy person becoming injured and losing a potential marked down and hook. I could ambush them when they are alone, or I could work more on 99'ing marks, or plenty more methods of 'getting good'.
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good perks are not situational. good perks are consistently high value every single game. the perk that are not consistent are usually perks that have -broken- effects like Adrenaline, Decisive strike, Hope etc.
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Really? Most of them are.
Infections Fright: only useful for slugging (there are better info perks)
Unrelenting: Just good on hag
Courlofobia: Good on doctor in a specific map
And many more. Most of the perks outside the meta are heavily situational.
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I could say the same to you by saying "skill dif git gud scrub", but I gave the actual how, just in case you truly were so clueless to not figure out any of those on your own or by watching gameplay videos produced by others. If that is too difficult for you, I suggest swapping to 2-handed gameplay. 1 hand simply isn't going to cut it to move and aim at the same time, even with mouse macros to do that with, and is likely the only reason it is so difficult to engage in the combo's numerous counterplay approaches.
Entirely perkless the Killer has 4 (main) avenues for success. I'm sorry you are unable to see them through your victim complex blinders.
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None of those are situational, as they're quite likely to provide value in the average game. These are very consistent perks, actually.
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Funny, how a lot of people told me, that any perk that requires another perk to shine is useless. Almost as if the only thing that matters is the outcome with a real loadout. Not, how a perk performs when nothing else is equipped.
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The vast majority of perks are situational.
But in general, yeah, its a 4v1, the 1's perks by definition should be stronger.
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Correct, that is my point. The vast vast majority of perks in this game are situational for both sides. The ones that are not, are the only 5-10 good ones on either side.
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the fact you keep doubling down on that tells me enough about ftp+bu apologists. imagine being so detached from reality.
"bruh just keep everyone injured every time you need to down a survivor, it's that easy"
"bruh just choose better target out of 2 identical survivors in the same identical position with same identical buffs".
i feel dirty even talking to you.
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The vast minority
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What's the point of trolling?
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I disagree. While FTP is definitely not as strong without Buckle Up, it’s still very good and has come in clutch for me several times. No other perk in the game allows you to instantly heal another survivor at any time.
Without Buckle Up, you just can’t use FTP directly in the killer’s face without one of you getting hit immediately, and that’s exactly how it should be.
Buckle Up on its own is still good too. It’s a strong deterrent to slugging that puts the killer in a lose-lose if you get someone up since then they can’t down either of you for 10 seconds. It would not be a dead perk at all if the FTP synergy was removed.
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What trolling? I just said some, but i can surely say that MOST of the killer perks are situational.
Make Your Choice, Surveillance, Opression, Nurse's, Bamboozle, Dissolution, Enduring, Most of the Hexes, Mindbreaker, Spirit Fury etc etc. I think its fair to compare For the People with those perk: they can be clutch in some situations, but aren't broken perks.
Now, if you are talking about the meta killer perks (Pain Ress, Pop, Deadlock, Corrupt, Lethal, Discordance, Ultimate Weapon), its another thing. They aren't "situational" because they are adress towards the most common situation in the game: gen progression and finding survivors. As survivors meta perks are made to adress the most common situation for survivors: chase, altruism and tunneling.
Sorry, but you need to be kind of dishonest to say that killer perks are not situational, as most of them are VERY SITUATIONAL and SPECIFIC
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and i thought the "it's just 3% bro" people are the worst, silly me. just play plague bro :D
let's break it down and see how they aren't possible.
Hit someone within 11m following a chase with a free hit, especially if doubling back at walls/corners.
playing against potatoes that would give you a hit like that shouldn't be a hard task anyway regardless of what perks they run, even if they are that bad and took your "bait", essentially you had to hit a hit tanker without them even giving the hit to you.
Spread the pressure from the onset, keeping multiple Survivors injured/hooked so they are unwilling to take aggro.
what does this mean? play legion/plague? play top tier killers you can apply high pressure with?
this is only reasonable if you read that as "apply pressure TO the ftp+bu abusing degen". yes i'll tunnel them right out of the lobby, so their corpse won't bother me anymore.
A shadowed chase yields 33% gen slowdown, accept the 10% better Pentimento for free.
a successful ftp play (which can't be simpler and easier to pull off) leaves you with 2 injured people and most likely at least 1 gen worth of gen progress instead of your down and potential pop/pain res. congrats, you have almost 0 pressure and started the game at 4 gens.
Deep Wound either (or both) Survivor(s) to prevent additional Endurance procs.
lmao.
Choose who to chase based on positioning/hook states/Broken Status and pick the better of the two for that circumstance.
yes i'll pick the user and get them out asap. that's a valid counterplay.
Wait out the 10s and bodyblock chokepoints (windows/pallets/doorframes).
unless they have less than 4 digit game hours, they will find anything to run. even if it's a z wall, that's still better than them lying on the ground.
SO, please stop with this nonsense. i see you copy paste this to multiple topics, hopefully you won't anymore.
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I was typing something to address this, but you did it first. Thanks
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For the people is a good swf - clutch perk. I also used it in soloq for a long time to get tunneled survivors out of immediate danger.
Its good. Just not a 100% value perk.
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Imagine lacking so much skill that injuring Survivors is being alleged to be the equivalent of a herculean task. If one person in the lobby has the combo and you are so offended by it, you can turbo tunnel them out of the match, or merely have them be the one injured, not the entire lobby. No one else can heal them for 60s after a use. Even if everyone has it in the lobby, you get the permanent 33% slowdown, so you need something like 45s an injury state for that combo to be a threat. As I said before (recontextualized here), if a Killer is taking 45s per injury state (during chase), they have significantly larger issues than FTP+BU, they have chronic "sucks at the game-itis". That is 10s of Bloodlust 3 before getting an injury. Even then, that is basically having all 4 Survivors down 2 perks each. 4 Survivors with 0 perks wouldn't help that Killer win. As such I gave the 4 (perkless, Killer agnostic) methods of counterplay and I am met with accusations of delusional thinking and the repeated false claim of no counterplay existing at all, to which I respond "have you looked in the mirror lately?".
Imagine now claiming everyone is using the same skin in every match when that was never mentioned beforehand. That's like me claiming every Blight runs C33+Alch Ring. A FTP+BU usage (while not even remotely close to Blight's power), doesn't also include the worst possible condition of an omega sweatlord, just as all Blights must all be omega sweatlords and bring C33+Alch+full meta perks.
Now the only issue that I would agree on is if you have hearing damage and are unable to hear Survivors within 12m before a down. Having game action subtitles resized based on volume as an accessibility feature would be great. They started with the visual TR, but that doesn't work for every noise, nor for Killer at all. Plus with the game's sounds consistently being bugged, it would help to test and prove audio not working correctly if for example gens are being progressed on the other side of a wall and the subtitle doesn't show the 'gen being worked' sound.
Point 1: You agree it is easy in the vast majority of matches, thanks. If they are close enough to risk FTP+BU, they are close enough to give a free hit as long as you have more skill than your opponent (minus bugged sounds or Light Step to be fair). They gift the Killer spread pressure on a silver platter, and the choice of 2 chases. Sounds like a win to me as Killer.
Point 2: The best way I can try to describe it is provide some attention or something for every Survivor to do, or set them up for failure, otherwise they will do gens and Killer will lose. Nemesis infecting the first person and swapping chase is an example, another is stalking as Ghosty to prep 99's for snowball potential, Oni similar to both Nemesis and Ghosty getting an injury to bleed and encourage healing sooner than later or risk that snowball potential, and even non-Tombstone Myers helps to take a hit and stalk a bit before swapping targets. Every Killer can apply pressure across the board, but it is a macro skill to learn how to do it, and how your specific Killer utilizes it best. Some Killers are low in terms of Macro potential such as Clown, as your Macro is instead your Micro. A Clown's Macro strat is his Micro, has a fast down to force a hook to force an unhook(+heal) and repeat. If you whiff Clown Bottles or Huntress Hatchets or Demo Shreds or Alien Tail Whips or so on, improve your Micro to improve your Macro. (Although some of those have greater Macro potential than others and aren't entirely reliant on Micro for Macro.)
Point 3: Think of health states collectively. If you have H+H+H+D, you have 2+2+2+0, or 6 Survivor HP. If they FTP+BU, they are H+H+I(B60s+E10s)+I(E10s), or 2+2+1+1, or still 6 Survivor HP.
Arguably it is better to go after the non-broken Survivor, but mileage may vary. They may have bought 20 gen seconds from the 10s Endurance from the other 2 Survivors, but how much time did they lose by shadowing the chase and not providing the gen seconds during it? Well if the Killer averages 10s/20s/30s follow-up chase (11 for the Endurance case to show the Killer has the capacity to count), and the Survivor with FTP+BU still has to run 5-10s (or 7.5s average) after using it to reach a gen (and ensure they aren't the one being chased), and the Survivor still needs to be healed for an average 32 gen seconds.
In the 10s(11s) chase, the Survivor only progressed 3.5s of gens, and still needs to heal for a basekit 32 gen seconds, so they are negative personal 28.5s, and negative team 8.5s. In the 20s chase, the Survivor only did 12.5s and net negative personal 19.5s, and team positive 0.5s. In the 30s chase, the Survivor only did 22.5s and net negative personal 9.5s, and team positive 10.5s. As long as you are mid match, this basically means it is a win for Killer, as the threat of an injured teammate provides too much snowball potential for most Killers. The vast majority of FTP+BU in my matches of Killer have been the 10(11s) chase, as I am able to bodyblock dangerous loops that would meaningfully extend the chase, or prevent the combo entirely and force a premature 32 gen second heal (or a Ghosty 99'd stalk down instead).
If it is the final singular gen, then fair, it prevents a death or 2, but that is far too rare in my games on both sides. Personally I consider myself weak in terms of skill (but strong in terms of game knowledge), so if I can do it, then certainly anyone else could, as long as they aren't foolishly giving the Survivor the speedboost without planning on dropping them for the other Surv (to force mend slowdown).
Also back to the collective health state concept, if they did FTP+BU, now after that delayed 'true down', you are back at H+H+I(Broken for ?s)+D(on Hook) or 5 Survivor HP, with only 2 Survivors in a safe position to rescue, and the 3rd Surv unable to heal for another (insert time remaining) and can only provide value on gens (or totems if applicable). When played correctly, that typically results in an injury on Surv 1, and then a forced hook trade on Surv 2, with now all 3 standing Survivors injured, and 1 on hook. That is a Macro death snowball, and very likely for the Killer to win.
Point 4: I would think someone with the name containing "Nerf DH" would be more happy to prevent Endurance procs, but I digress (it could have been the OG DH to be fair).
Point 5: Yeah if you focus someone with a specific combo and give up possible advantages that is up to your discretion, but at least we yet again agree the counterplay exists.
Point 6: Yeah that's kind of the point, they will attempt to run anything. However the results are entirely dependent on the Killer skill vs the Survivor. The most common usage of FTP+BU is on someone weaker on the team to delay their death, but that basically means the Killer is better than them by default. If a Survivor is running a Killer longer than the Endurance granted by BU on a Z-wall, they deserve to live, and the Killer needs to learn how to play the game. If the Survivor was better than the Killer, then the Killer can simply chase the BU user who likely is worse instead. Since the Killer has the choice of who to chase, they can easily pick the 11s chase every time. Even if the better Survivor attempts to Endurance bodyblock for the weaker Survivor, they risk a shortened Endurance timer and a forced pallet drop in the best case scenario for the bodyblocker. Having 2 injured Survs and one less pallet (that likely had to be a strong pallet to enable the bodyblock to occur at all) sounds like an easy snowball potential for me as Killer.
To close: So we agreed on 2 of 6 points (or 5 if you didn't intend LOL to be a serious refute, and more of an aside to the Deep Wounds part), and I gave reasoned explanations for the remainder. I very much prefer engaging in a dialogue than someone saying "its impossible lalalalalala" and sticking their fingers in their ears (like the other person), so thank you.
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i like how low mmr killers who play against babies think that "just keep everyone injured" is a valid counterplay.
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it feels like such a chore having to explain why survivors being able to pick people up before the killer even gets out of wiping animation without any danger isn't a good idea but here we go.
before i start, you should keep in mind that dbd isn't just low level soloq teams and you can't argue about perks' potentials based on the skill levels of such teams.
so i don't want to get deep into each one of them, i'll compare this combo to old coh instead. if the killer was stomping, the perk didn't seem that broken. you could snuff boons, keep gens and hook people in a match you are stomping on survivors and after that point keeping blessing totems was throwing. but, BUT, when you were in a match as a losing killer against it, there was nothing you could do. there was no establishing pressure, you couldn't go around and snuff totems. chase people instead? no, because if people you were chasing ever ran to a safe zone, they might as well be automatically healed because you can't afford chasing people around strong areas and that meant they could now go to the coh and heal for free, giving you zero pressure.
ftp bu is like this. it sure still can turn the tides around, but as a stomping killer you'll still have time to target the user or you can simply afford your chase being extended for absolutely no reason. losing killers is a different story. if your down you barely got at 2 gens get denied, what are you gonna do? now the killer can't even get the few hooks they could otherwise get and they lost the very slight chance to win the match.
(very shortly getting into the counterplay argument: you actually might not see that coming unlike how you base all your scenarios on. very often do i see survivors wandering around when i get my down and i generally have no clue they were there beforehand. even if you see that coming from a mile away, you can't go back and forth to scare or try to bait the user while chasing your target and lose distance and potentially lose opportunities to get the downing hit. unlike a flashlight/bang saver or even a duo with flip flop power struggle which basically makes the survivor unpickable, you have absolutely no counter (except tunnelling) against this if you are not, again, stomping on survivors and can keep them injured/hooked all the time. you have the choice to leave the survivor on the ground and have slug pressure instead if picking isn't a safe option, but with this combo you won't have a slug either. this is why i don't have an issue with buckle up by itself while people claim it's the problem, killer player still has agency.)
the game is survivor sided at high levels. we are NOT talking about potato tier soloq teams where the user actually takes free hits. playing lower tier killers at higher mmr whatsoever, you won't be stomping on anyone. even as high tier killers on some maps you might struggle. on top of that, noone is claiming they are the best killer player with the most skill and you are telling this combo which basically is an extra kick in the balls of a losing killer is fine because the losing killer could play better? killer has no right to choose in this situation (except tunnelling the user yes).
slightly mentioning points here, hook states aren't healable(?) meanwhile health states are, is legion op if 2 health states equal a hook state? and you are greatly underestimating the pressure a hooked survivor provides. about gen efficiency, a swf on comms will give info on about when they will go down and where. tunnelling the user shouldn't be a counterplay by the way :) if multiple people have this combo good luck, also.
sorry to join, i guess, but "it actually is impossible" against strong survivor teams that abuse this combo.
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Gosh darn, my MMR must be so low with 74% of my Killer matches ending with a victory before the gens pop. Yep, no way that nearly 3/4s of my matches ending in a 3k+hatch or 4k, before we even entertain the notion of endgame, is low MMR. I like how even lower MMR Killers who are more babies than their Survivor opponents think that they can't 'just keep everyone injured' and haven't learned to improve yet (and they only need the FTP+BU player to be injured).
When I said I lacked skill, I mean I lose more than I would like to, thus I seek to improve. I also lack raw reaction speed, but I typically make up for that with decision making. Taking a chase in a manner to get the pallet dropped quickest to break it to prep for a stronger later game for example.
I only consider it without risk with Light Step personally, but then they had to sink 3 perks for something they can only do once a minute before they are even allowed to heal again. Overall the opportunity cost still seems advantageous to me for Killer (other than the previously mentioned death hook protection on final gen).
As far as differing skill levels go, I typically worry about the mode and mean experiences the most (or most common and average), and they have significant overlap in being roughly the same. This might be where we differ in the most important realm, as (skimming ahead).
I feel as though old CoH was vastly stronger, as it allowed for self-healing, so it didn't even run the risks normally associated with the grouping caused by FTP+BU or current CoH. Essentially old CoH was just busted imo, and the current CoH is perfect as a competitor with We'll Make It and Botany Knowledge, or times when it is better and times when it is weaker.
As you say, FTP+BU can turn things around, but that doesn't mean every match where it is equipped guarantees that successful turn-around. Just like how as solo-q Survivor, how you might put on DS or Unbreakable after being tunneled/slugged in one match, then you go 10 matches without it happening and then take it off and then finally get tunneled/slugged again. Basically the possibility of it working for me can only be evaluated with the rate of usage and success. As I said in the 2nd paragraph, if you only care about the highest potential, then we just disagree on what aspect we should be worried about.
(Skipping the parenthetical section unless you'd like me to reply to it.)
I understand at the tippy top level the game is Survivor sided, but the vast majority of normal matchmade games I find to be Killer sided, whether I'm playing Solo-q, Killer, or SWF (although to be fair my SWF are more memelords and not very skilled). I largely see Killer losses in my matches (again on both sides) as Killer mistakes. There is always something the Killer could have done instead to win, and when playing in my SWF it often is tunneling the 4th random or the weaker member of my SWF. I think any match where someone recognizes they could take a better action, refuses to take the better action or otherwise learn from that, deserves to lose. I shouldn't be able to drop 5 random pallets and win as Surv cuz I hit the spacebar, and Killer shouldn't make haphazard plays and win regardless. Wins should be earned through correct decision making.
What I was talking about in terms of group health states is the requirement for the injured Survs to sneak a hook rescue or sit on gens, otherwise they risk letting the Killer snowball and have 2 people on hook and force 2 rescue attempts or risk the first hooked Surv to lose an extra state from sitting on hook for too long. That is a different form a pressure that can be applied, and if you have intel perks (or knowledge of where the Survs were), you can intercept rescue attempts and make it take longer or not happen at all. I wouldn't quite say Legion is OP, but I would say people vastly underestimate Legion's strength. So when you are talking about the pressure of a hooked Surv, I am thinking after the FTP+BU is done with, if you have an extra injury on the table then they have a harder time and more pressure from that hook than before.
FTP+BU I don't see being remotely close to Blight/Nurse in terms of strength in both average cases and highest skill groups. So that's why I see it being fine as it is nowhere near another 'acceptable' level of strength.
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For The People isn't a useless perk it's just more situational on its own.
- You can transfer the obsession to ruin Killer perks
- You can quickly heal someone that is a hook state from death if you need to force the killer to go for you instead if you have less hooks
- You can prevent mass slugging and ruin the killers momentum
Could FTP be buffed? Yeah sure I wouldn't complain. It's certainly not useless though and I feel the issue is all the meta perks that have been meta for years are just too good to pick less consistent perks like FTP. I also feel everyone's expectations for what this perk should do has been raised when they view it with Buckle Up.
Situational perk? Absolutely. But it's a perk the survivor has full control over when they want to use it assuming they have a health state. I think it's fine as it is and yes I do run the perk. You realistically will never buff this perk to be on the level of most meta perks when it has a downside such as causing broken to the healer.
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