Something happened to MMR ?
Answers
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This change literally doesn't affect 99% of players. Before the MMR soft cap was 1800. To achieve this, you needed to average at least 3 kills per match (75% kill rate). To be above the new soft cap (2100), you probably need at least a 85% kill rate.
As someone who 4ks practically every match, this change mostly just increased queue times for me (x3 longer). I get an occassional difficult match but most matches are still easy.
Post edited by adsads123123123123 on1 -
I'm still baffled how people are trying to rationalise how a number that they cannot see, (that has already been proven to do almost nothing to improve the quality of matches:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=orkzXTuIzwU), has been changed.
My friends, for all intents of purposes...
MMR does not exist!
How about you just let people see their MMR so they can experience first-hand if it functions or not? You wouldn't need to hide this information from players if your system actually worked as you claimed it did 🤨
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Can you tell us what percentage of players are abvoe the mmr soft cap, so everyone stops thinking they are godlike players above the soft cap?
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What I understand:
OP - I'm stomping Killer pretty hard lately, is MMR turned off?
BHVR - Say hello to our new MMR changes, it's not a placebo effect. It took a while, but now it's working as intended. You are welcome.
A game with 2 Hooks (not hookstages) and 2 Kills is more worth than 9 Hooks and 1 Kill. Pressing M1 on gens and leaving the trial without knowing which killer you are facing is more worth than running the killer for 5 gens and dying to bloodwarden. I don't say kills and escapes shouldn't take into account, but building your whole MMR system on that seems wrong.
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Thats cool and all, but I liked ranks. I'd like to know my mmr regardless. Appreciate the heads up though.
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Im more puzzled that i could feel it, im no way near the top, especially as survivor. The person i played with felt it too.
I did play some killer games yesterday (2 or 3), and they seemed more sweaty, but as with survivor, im not near the top mmr. I used to play like 6 hours a day at least as killer, now im not even playing 3 hours a week.
And as i understand it, its only affecting the best/top mmr. So it could actually just be a coincidence that crashed with the change, or it could be the mmr "normalizing" after this change, and the "effect" will wear off again once its in place.
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MMR does not exist!That's a bold claim being:
1: Nothing in the video you link supports that. It goes into detail about the MMR system and how it works. The vid creator doesn't like it, but that's a different issue.
2: They made a change to MMR and people noticed.
3: If you watch any of the challenges were people start fresh accounts you can see the jump in quality as they play.
I don't say kills and escapes shouldn't take into account, but building your whole MMR system on that seems wrong.The devs have given 2 reasons for this, both of which I think make sense.
1: Over the long run, if you normally get a ton of hooks as killer or have long 5 gen chases as survivor, you are likely to more often get kills /escapes. An individual game does not have much impact on your MMR.
2: The current system allows parity. Its a guarantee that some MMR will go up, and other MMR will go down. That's a much better system than a design where everyone can see an MMR increase.
I'd also throw in simplicity. How do you measure whether the survivor was great in the chase, or the killer was bad? What's the value of knowing how critical breaking a 3 gen is? What's the point value for knowing when and when not to take a protection hit?
If you used to play like 6 hours a day, you probably have decent MMR.
All of the people who had been above the soft cap, but not way above it, have now been dropped back down. Which means I suspect if you had been a killer below the soft cap, but not way below, your pool just got harder.
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I had no time to play last week because things like work and RL exist, but yesterday I played a few games with a friend and for once it felt we were actually playing balanced matches, which was a nice change tbh.
We're decent at the game, but neither of us has the mental spoons to do hyperfocused optimal chases, but we had a few good ones. Won some matches, lost some, had a fun egc moment with one of our randoms that was so happy about hitting a flashlight safe... It was nice. We had fun. High MMR certainly isn't the correct place for us, but somewhere in the middle where we seem to be now feels alright.
Though I have seen some high MMR killers complain about getting sweaty survivor teams. Which felt ironic to me since a few weeks ago they were complaining about having to face low MMR survivors that weren't a challenge for them. I mean.... Make up your mind? Do you just want to steamroll new players or do you want an even match? Personally I prefer the latter, whether I play killer or survivor. Give me a fun game rather than a guaranteed win/loss and we're golden.
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It isn't a bold claim at all considering that for a while the evidence for MMR existing, let alone doing anything, was just the devs saying "Trust me bro". Had they not told anyone about it's implementation no one would even be able to say if it had an effect on the game because it's completely invisible unless you data mine it!
The video I linked you to directly explains how, outside of the beginner pool where MMR admittingly actually does something, players of radically different amounts of MMR can still be matched together. It proves how laughably ineffective it is at matching together players of equal skill!
Whether you like that or not is irrelevant. It is an objectively poor system that is unhealthy for the game.
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I dont get this "nah everyone is lying to us" what kind of conspiracy do you think is going on ?
And why ?
There is a lot of confirmation that mmr does exist, alone this thread.
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I absolutely hate this new MMR as killer. I've gone from tough, but generally fair matches to absolutely getting curb stomped. I'm talking 2 chases and the gens are done. Games where I get 1 to 2 hooks. It's miserable. The worst part about these matches is just feeling like there is NOTHING I could do, besides play as Nurse.
Even had a SWF who in their words 'play too much survivor' apologize to me for a 2 hook match. I was playing a killer I hardly ever touch. Probably less than 10 matches total. What happened to killer MMR being different? This felt like a group I'd have struggled against on my main.
Survivor I've had less experience with so far, but I notice that my teammates are definitely running killers for longer and generally seem more competent. Gens are getting done. They body block and protect teammates on death hook. But god, survivor queues are already long in my region, I don't wanna have to switch to just playing survivor to avoid an absolutely miserable experience.
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Whether you like that or not is irrelevant. It is an objectively poor system that is unhealthy for the game.Whether its good or not isn't the topic. Whether it exists and has an impact is what we're talking about.
It isn't a bold claim at all considering that for a while the evidence for MMR existing, let alone doing anything, was just the devs saying "Trust me bro".The fact that major content creators said 'something seems different' shows it is having an impact.
The video I linked you to directly explains how, outside of the beginner pool where MMR admittingly actually does something, players of radically different amounts of MMR can still be matched together. It proves how laughably ineffective it is at matching together players of equal skill!If you consider anyone below the soft cap, even the old number, the 'beginner pool' you are throwing way too many players in there. BHVR tried stricter matchmaking and people, generally, hated it from either long ques or repetitive games.
One of the main complaints was the soft cap was too low and needed to be raised, we'll see how well that adjusts things.
Players of different skill levels can be matched together, BHVR hasn't ever said that wasn't true. Depending upon your own MMR, region, and time of day you play really determine the chances of having a match with four other players close to your MMR. If you're at a high MMR it will be harder for the game to find people on your level (thus the reason for a soft cap) and if you are playing when less players are in the game there is a smaller pool overall to draw from.
Those factors would be problems for any type of system they tried to implement.
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Can we please rewamp this MMR change? Since the change I only got longer Q times and only sweaty survivor groups with like 3-4 dstrike, 2+ dh and mft at least 1 FtP and Buckle Up.
I'm a casual killer but every match felt like a total sweat fest to me, even with killer I like had 0-2 matches at all!
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It's not that MMR is bad, it's that balance adjustment (Nurse, Bright, Perks) is bad. MMR is essential to match with people of the same skill level. With MMR working, poor game balance becomes noticeable, and BHVR makes it easier to adjust the balance, so this is a very good thing.
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Has the bug where MMR collapses if someone leaves the lobby been fixed?
Also, I'd like to see the players' MMR, even if it's conditional.
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I think this change should stay. Newer players definitely should not be going against 6k plus hours killers/survivors. Higher skilled players who don't like this change just prefer to be stomping on casual players to boost their ego or something.
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Just watching a streamer right now (shes killer main), she have less than 2k hours, and goes against 6k hours sweat teams.
Im just happy i dont play much killer anymore.
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It is better now.
In killers with higher MMR I get harder matches but it means I decrease my MMR more frequently by losing and get fairer matches more frequently.
In killers with lower MMR I get fairer matches and I lose less frequently.
It is a bit more like the first MMR.
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Its easyer for survivors now, yes. But for what i have seen its not very balanced toward killers, let me quote my self from before in this thread.
I did play some killer games yesterday (2 or 3), and they seemed more sweaty, but as with survivor, im not near the top mmr. I used to play like 6 hours a day at least as killer, now im not even playing 3 hours a week.
And for what i have seen on twitch, its just not my games, every killer game seems sweaty now. If i was a killer main i would have quit now, because thats really not fun to have to sweat every game.
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i am enjoying the good survivor matchmaking and the harder killer games.
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How does she play though? You can definitely have a 2k or under killer main in high MMR if they play to win (ie strongest killers, perks, add ons, tunnelling, etc). High MMR are the ones who will undoubtedly have more sweaty opponents, but they generally play sweaty themselves to get to high MMR in the first place.
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Not that good, after that change, she got like 4 hooks every game. She ended the stream now, but i think that was the reason.
Also, she did a lot of requests, so it was not like she where just facerolling with her main.
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You know that losing causes you to lose mmr and you will eventually fall below the soft cap right? See https://deadbydaylight.fandom.com/wiki/Skill-Based_Matchmaking_Rating for how mmr works. Also, they implemented this change weeks ago. It didn't "suddenly" just get harder.
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What?
I know how mmr works, did you read my initial post or just the headline? and Mandys reply, thats marked as the answer?
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Talking to the people complaining about losing. They will eventually fall below the soft cap and face easier opponents.
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I’m more curious if the devs implemented this because they were confident that each region had enough Killers and Survivors at different mmr groups to queue against each other.
My only concern is that if people at the top range on either side stop playing because of constantly being matched against the same people aka constantly sweating, this would eventually result in the game having to pull players from a lower rating to prevent 10 min queues.
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The biggest change I've noticed for me personally is solo queue, and I'm wondering if that was the impetus for the change. Solo queue feels 1000% better. It was downright impossible at times before at whatever my MMR is. Sweaty killer+me+survivor with 300 hrs. It just didn't work. Now I'm getting teams that 3 out a 4 slowdown Nurse with a MacMillan offering.
Killer population is a valid concern, but I think you have to start with good matchmaking, let it settle, and adjust the gameplay as needed from there.
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Its kinda crazy, im watching another killer streamer now, and hes completley facerolling the survivors.
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I'd figure that would have to be the case. When they tried higher caps previously the que was 10 minutes and no one has reported that so far.
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Wouldn't change a thing. Let's say devs disclose that 5% of players are above the soft-cap.
Then they'd check the numbers of dbd-players on various social media, compare it to a total estimated number of players, and deduce that they are in the top 5%.
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I think I read somewhere that it is about 5% of the player base. I'm certain I'm not a high MMR survivor, anyway. I'm back at what I like to call Ghost Face MMR (where every third killer you VS is a Ghost Face). I'm not thrilled to be seeing this guy so often again but you can't have everything. At least some gens, hook saves, heals and gate escapes are happening in the majority of my games again. Beats facing the same 4 killers with the exact same build in every game. Or worrying if that Killer is playing "nice" by leaving the hook or just getting their Devour Hope stacks.
But I think lots of average players will still find themselves against high MMR players fairly often because of lobby dodging / backfill issues or lower player numbers at certain times. I guess this might lead some people to think they're at a higher MMR than they are in reality.
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Would you be so kind and tell us where the soft cap is now? It used to be at 1600, right?
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The number is meaningless, no one can know what their's is.
All we know is that average player MMR values had inflated to the point where too many people were above the soft cap, so the soft cap has been raised to correct for it, likely back to around the top 5% of players they originally said the soft cap was set to.
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https://deadbydaylight.fandom.com/wiki/Skill-Based_Matchmaking_Rating
October 2023
Raised the "Soft Cap" from 1,800 points to 2,100 points.
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Correct, the balance of this game is a joke. At the highest level of MMR on killer side you have 2 maybe 3 viable killers. And on the survivor side, you are bringing garden of joy map offerings with full commodious toolboxes, or insta heals/bnps and the same 6-7 perks. While at low mmrs you have survivors going down to a trapper at shack who doesn't have traps, while still somehow getting hit through the pallet drop and wasting the pallet.
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I've only escaped two trials since the 13th. One because The Huntress gave me Hatch and the second because The Pig wanted to farm and let everyone escape.
Also, there's almost never a BP incentive on either side. If there is, it's 50% for killer or 25% survivor.
I haven't dared to play killer yet this season.
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I think 1 issue is the difference on slow and fast moving killers, in a game where time means a lot for the killers.
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Sort of. Its basically the gen speed to chase time ratio.
Survivors have to complete 5 gens to power the gates. 5 gens at 90 seconds each. The killer has to get 4 kills (roughly 10 hooks without camping). Now look at the times.
Survivors and killer spawn at opposite ends of the map. By the time the killer crosses the map, every survivor is on a different gen. The killer starts a chase. During that first chase, 3 survivors are working a gen uninhibited. How long does that first chase last? Well if you just hold shift + w, don't use pallets, windows, killer power, perks nothing? 56 seconds. It takes 56 seconds to down, and hook that survivor. Now factor in that every pallet break adds around 15 seconds to a chase and that maps are littered with tons of safe pallets that must be kicked and you realize why most killers are not viable.
Unless your power has some way to shut down a loop, forget it, you just lost 3 gens for your first down, and now you have a single hook and survivors can permanently have 1 person working a gen, while one is chased, 1 is saving, and 1 is on hook. Repeat that 3 more times, and you got 4 hooks and the survivors powered the gates. And that doesn't even factor in the fact that survivors often just stay injured now because they have resilience and will get adrenaline.
This is why nurse is so good, she shuts down loops harder than any killer in the game and her minimum chase time is not 56 seconds, but around 20 seconds. Blight's power isn't as good as nurse at shutting down loops, but it is pretty good, but his map mobility is unmatched by any killer in the game. making him able to get around quickly and more easily pressure multiple survivors.
The problem is safe pallets and map sizes. Why does garden of joy window still exist even after their "nerf" to the map? Why are there so many pallets that MUST be kicked to be dealt with? Realistically, every single structure and loop in the game should work like a TL wall, a true 50/50. Pallets should only "work" when you stun the killer with them. If you don't stun the killer, you should be subject to a 50/50 at that point for every single pallet and loop in the game. The only exception to this should be killer shack, which should stay as it is, but should also contain the basement, making it a high risk/high reward structure. The only "nerf" i would do to killer shack is making it so you can't see through any of them, allowing the killer to actually do some kind of mindgame at them. Then, once you have made every loop fair this way, you can add a ton of them. Put 30 pallets on a map, make it so deadzones are no longer possible, and now you can mindgame every single loop and the game is far more interactive.
After we fix the maps and structures, then we can go through and nerf all of the top tier killers and buff any low tier ones (they might not need at that point).
Now, before someone reads this and says: "but then killers will just 4k every game in low mmr, my teammates bad". Maybe. But is that any different to how it is now? If you nerf the OP ######### that only top tier survivors can exploit, you aren't going to hurt the low skill survivors who aren't exploiting those things, because they aren't doing it to begin with. At that point you can start adding mechanics and things to the game that HELP those players (basekit kindred anyone?) because the game will be in a more balanced state at a high level.
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I agree, i play mostly survivor now, but i was a killer main for about 800-900 hours.
And i want the game to be balanced for both sides. Sadly i see a lot of "buff us, nerf them" arguments, and i refuse to jump on that train. The game should be fun and balanced for both Survivors and Killers.
The 2 main reasons i stopped as a killer main was that it became stressing and unfun, because of gen timers, and then there was cheaters, man i saw so manny cheaters as killer main, some days 2 of 3 games were cheaters (and this was the ones that did not try to hide it). So dbd were no longer a place where i could unwind and have fun as a killer.
I had a break, and i started to talk with a guy from the community, who were a killer main. We decided to try to team up as survivors, one day he brought a girl he met from the community too, and we slowly grew to a small swf community with our own discord and steam group, we are 8 people now and we are really relaxed.
Sorry that was a sidetrack, but thats the reason i want the game balanced. I like that you use numbers in your argument, because those numbers are the key, i use numbers my self when needed to prove a point.
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I’ve played for the last two days and I’ve been lucky to come out of the game with 2 kills. What have done to the mmr? No matter what build I run, play style I use I will always get blown out of the water by survivors.
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