Do you think with the raise of tunneling do you think they should put DS back to it's original state
I think at least in the time it stuns the killer but if it's like at the last gens players shouldn't use it at all
Comments
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Nah
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Tunnelling or not, DS should increase the stun duration to 5 seconds but keep its current restriction of deactivating once the Exit Gates are powered.
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Nope
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Absolutely!
Also, can we pretty please with a cherry on top get rid of the skill check as well? Nowadays it serves no purpose but to penalize less experienced survivors and it's just a leftover remnant of a bygone era.
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all ds needs is the 5 second stun and its perfect.
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You know that's something that could happen as a buff. Only reason not to would be if you're "saving" it but it'd be nice just to always guarantee it's use.
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While that might work on paper, some killers will give zero f and tunnel you out.
Otherwise, yea I agree that DS should go back to normal.
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Yes, and the timer should pause while in chase.
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Yea they should...
Seems Tunneling is the playstyle used by a lot of Killer players do
But have we looked into why they do Tunnel...
1) Gens are too fast... so Kills got to be fast
2) Bodyblocking- having the focus shift onto who just came off of the hook
3) Survivors teabagging at the exit gates... that takes a toll on players mental
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"You give them an inch, and they take a mile."
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Yeah revert to 5 seconds and still disabled at end game would be good. The 3 second stun really doesn't help at all, seeing it from both sides.
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If DS goes back to 5 seconds, i really wish they remove the collision with the killer for survivors under endurance. I'm facing many survivors with OTR + DS + DH + MFT bodyblocking just after they get unhooked and would be so infuriating if a survivor could use those anti tunnel perks as offensive as this.
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4) Because it's easy to do and the reward for doing it is high.
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Yes but shut it off at end game.
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No.
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Can we stop using the excuse that gens are too fast?
The time it takes to complete a generator solo was increased to 90 seconds, because "gens go too fast". It did nothing to put a damper on tunneling. I think people opt to tunnel because it's easier than going for 12 hooks and prioritising gen defense.
Even if generators took 120 seconds to complete solo, killers would still say that gens go too fast and that's why they have to tunnel.
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Ok....
Gen regression is to slow... so rather then kick a Gen we chose to chase someone we see on matter Hook States (cause we can't see them)
We have little way to increase that... giving how they nerfed Gen regression perks
Also Survivors hated the Gen Kick Meta... but look at what we have now
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Buff it to 4 second stun at first, then to 5 if that proves to be too useless. Also maybe they can increase the duration to 80 seconds like OTR, but that might mean stacking them would be too much.
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Bring back to 5sec.
DS should also give you no grunting and scratch mark for 5sec.
DS and OTR should be disable when become healthy so no such thing as OTR body block 3 times then give you DS.
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Tunneling was just as prevalent during the gen kick meta.
Gen speed is just an excuse people try to use to tunnel, but tunneling was/is/had always been the most common way to play. Even when killers could literally take games hostage for an hour and stop gen progress almost entirely.
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IIRC Eruption was a large contributor as to why Survivors hated the gen kick meta.
I think they overdid it with the nerfs to CoB and Ruin. I think both these perks, pre-nerf, were fine and didn't really deserve the nerf.
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Revert DS to 5 seconds. Make it active on both hooks. But also:
Remove collision on survivors with endurance so they can't body block.
Put Ruin back to 200% but keep the deactivate when a survivor dies.
Put CoB and Overcharge back to 200% but make it so gen regression doesn't stack so the maximum regression rate is 200%.
Then monitor kill rates and buff or nerf as needed to keep the 60% target.
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I mean killers were tunnelling in gen kick meta too. It was strongest anti-gen meta we had but killers still did not play fair. So killers will always tunnel.
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NO. Never, ever. DS was the most problematic perk in the game for years. It's actually in a good spot now. 5 seconds gave enough time for the survivors to get so much distance it was pretty much a free escape away from the killer, even at dead zones. Now all you have to do is make sure you're near a pallet or window when you go down. You are not supposed to be in a dead zone to begin with.
Skilled survivors get value out of DS all the time, and have ways to weaponize it, to pretty much force or at least induce the killer to take the stun. Buffing it would also buff this kind of uses of it, which was already quite strong in the past, and today it would be used ON TOP OF OFF THE RECORD, so it would be even stronger. There's no need for that. DS+OTR as it is now can already waste a lot of time from a tunneling killer.
By the way, anti-tunneling DS wasn't its "original state". The actual original DS was even more broken and problematic, triggering every time the player got picked up before it was used, no need to get hooked first.
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if ds becomes meta again it'll only result in survivors who run it taking a nap instead of hooks. I really don't care, any kill method is fine as long as I win, so it's up to you.
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DS needs to be activated for both hook stages at least
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DS is not in a good spot currently, considering that it has a 4.85% usage rate according to Nightlight. So I wouldn't say that "skilled survivors get value out of DS all the time."
Also, I don't know why you talk about DS synergising with OTR like that's a bad thing. They're anti-tunnel perks. Don't tunnel and you won't have a problem with them.
DS needs to go back to 5 seconds. You don't pick where you get downed. Sometimes you'll be at a pallet or a window, and sometimes you won't. There was no need to reduce the stun duration.
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Remember that both OTR and DS deactivate if the survivor performs a conspicuous action. So if a survivor wants to preserve their endurance and DS, they can't do a gen.
That's one survivor not doing gens. That's a massive W for the killer. They chase someone else, now that's two people not doing gens.
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It won’t resolve tunnelling on its own, but it sure as hell doesn’t hurt. If nothing else, it hits the problematic tunnellers just a bit harder that way.
Provided that it’s still disabled in the end-game.
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The 3 seconds is still good. The 5 seconds allowed someone to run to a deadzone and still get rewarded despite the bad play.
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Tunneling is meta now cuz gens are too fast the deja vu + resilience combo is too strong and gens get finished way too fast so killers tunnel more to combat that. Decisive has nothing to do with this.
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4.85% is still better usage rate than many other survivor perks. It's a perk that require's skill to have some value now, contrary to before, when it was a free escape from killer ticket. On high-skill play, it's still a meta perk. It doesn't need a buff.
"Don't tunnel and you won't have a problem with them" is not true, and that has been said time and time again, for years. As I already said in my previous comment, both DS and OTR can be weaponized. Skilled survivors know ways of using it to bodyblock for teammates, take protection hits, make the killer target them or even induce a grab. If DS was buffed, this kind of uses for the perk combo would get buffed too.
And while you can't always pick where you get downed, you should always be looking to be near pallets or windows, skilled survivors can do that consistently and even make sure they go down under a pallet with some frequency. If you got downed in a dead zone, that's on you. You shouldn't be there in first place.
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The only way DS can be weaponised is if you're dumb enough to fall for the most obvious bait in the world. This isn't like old ds where the survivor could freely work on a gen or go for a save right in your face. It's disabled by conspicuous actions.
OTR can be weaponised, sure, but that's two survivors not on gens. That's literally free pressure. If a survivor wants to waste their endurance to body block instead of helping their team do gens, more the fool them.
Also, the statistics don't support your claim that DS is meta. Windows has a 33.67% usage rate, followed by Adrenaline at 26.06%, Resilience at 19.88%, and Lithe at 17.79%. That's just the top 4. DS doesn't even make top 10.
You forget that the game does not revolve around high skill play, so it really doesn't matter if the best players can do something consistently if the rest of the player base can't. It doesn't need to be a more skillful interaction when it's an anti-tunnel perk. It literally only gets value if you're being tunneled.
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