BHVR's "Solution to 3 gen"
On the new roadmap, Behaviour announced that they are looking into a 'solution to 3 gen.' I have no high hopes for this, and it'll probably be something like, 'if the last 3 gens are too close together, one of them gets replaced with one that is further away.' This, of course, would be a huge problem. 3 genning, as boring as it can be, is the most reliable tactic for low mobility/map control killers. Taking this away would just screw them heavily.
Of course, this is just speculation, but I cannot think of anything else they'd come up with to 'solve' 3 gen. In my opinion, it's a necessary evil to have in the game so that lower-tier killers can have more control. Also, keep in mind that survivors can avoid 3 gens if they are smart.
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Their last attempt to solve something was really mild (AFC-Feature). I highly doubt it will be different. I dont think their solution will change much, because they need to keep in mind that Survivors can also 3-gen themselves and should also have to think about which Gens need to be done and which Gens should be left for later while also trying to eliminate the playstyle of just picking 3 Gens from the start and never leaving them as Killer.
And while I think the latter should 100% not be possible, because it is very boring and requires little skill, I dont really see a way how they want to get rid of it and also make sure Survivors still have to pay attention which Gens to do.
They can of course work on Gen-Spawns, some Maps spawn with really strong 3-Gens. But this will not really solve that much and from how it is presented, it is probably something bigger.
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Or they remove/modifiy in the tiles where a Generator can Spawn.
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I bet theyll add another gen.
Survivors dont want to have a 3gen in mind from the start they want to just slam the gens out. Theyre dumbing the game down like crazy.
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Worried for how this is going to work too. Best case scenario they actually fix maps and gen spawns, but judging by how they called this the “3-gen solution” they are probably not going for something that ambitious.
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I think part of the problem is map design. Take RPD for example. That map sometimes has 5 gens spawn really close together in or off the main hall, and two that often spawn at the top and bottom of the stairs. When I'm playing Killer on this map, I pretty much almost never need to leave this area.
So how would they fix 3 gen on a map that small? The gens have to go somewhere.
I also wonder how many Killer wins come from exploiting a 3 gen situation? Holding one from the very start is a fairly rare Killer strat from my experience (aside from Skull Merchant), but most can and will take advantage if they're given one. So I think certain Killers will struggle to maintain a 50-60% Kill rate if they make it so that Survivors can never screw up and 3 gen themselves.
We'll see what they come up with but like with the AFC, I don't think it will be too radical.
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It might be something like “if a killer is excessively kicking a 3 gen, but not kicking the other generators, then the killer is clearly defending a 3 gen all game, and something needs to happen”
(assuming there are more than 3 generators left in the game, and survivors were trying to repair other generators)
Post edited by Coffeecrashing on0 -
I expect the worst, a bit like with the anti-slug mechanic.
I hope to be surprised though.
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Unless they are doing something to fix the "Chess merchant" style only ala Anti-facecamp only deals specifically with super egregious facecamping, then its going to be a huge problem.
LITERALLY BY DESIGN the killer is weaker at the start of the game, and stronger near the end of the game due to the fact that they have less gens to patrol. Personally, if they make it so that the killer gets some of that power in the early game (i.e. losing 3 gens in the first chase is no longer expected) then i would happily trade the 3 gen.
Honestly the easiest change i think they can make is make gens take different times depending on where we are. I.E.
Current:
1st gen: 90 seconds
2nd gen: 90 seconds
3rd gen: 90 seconds
4th gen: 90 seconds
5th gen: 90 seconds
Total: 450 seconds
Potential change:
1st gen: 130 seconds
2nd gen: 110 seconds
3rd gen: 90 seconds
4th gen: 70 seconds
5th gen: 50 seconds
Total: 450 seconds
Then make it so that the "charges" are removed from the repaired side of the gen so you can't partially repair a bunch of gens and then 1 gen gets done and suddenly 5 get done, and you might have a decent change.
Doesn't change the total time, but evens out the early game so that the killer can actually get a down or 2 before they lose a gen. Then in the late game, 3 genning is much much weaker because you can power through 50 seconds much easier than 90.
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BHVR said the 3 gen solution isn’t supposed to affect normal games, so it can’t be the solution you suggested.
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I was thinking on maybe at some point where a 3 gens situation is happening, one or more gens respawn in another place to have more distance between eachother, kinda like pyramidhead cage. I dont think that would be really difficult to code and could solve any 3 gen without messing around much with maps.
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I'll always have a problem with built in mechanics that can potentially erase mistakes for pretty much free or in certain cases, make the "mistakes" the best play.
If they prevent 3 genning, all it will do is encourage survivors to slam out the far out gens that the killer can't reasonably apply pressure to, because they won't be punished for it.
We seriously don't need more basekit mechanics that reduce brainpower requirements from the game.
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That doesn’t sound too bad then. I’m thinking if the game starts lasting too long because of a 3-gen then something will happen to break it.
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You mean the mechanic that never made it into the game because they said they didn't wanna add it?
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Because of how bad it was in practice, yes, that one.
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I really hope their solution is something like "each gen cannot be regressed for more than certain % (f/e 100%/150%/200%) of its max progress. and buff perks/effects with unlimited regression capability so even they can give fair value.
what this would achieve is effectively prevent 3 gens from working in the long term as long as survivors are doing any progress at all. killer would still be able to hold a fair / good faith 3 gen (a natural response to survivors leaving 3 gen in the first place), but taking survivors hostage for unreasonable amount of time would be impossible because regression would be a finite resource, therefore something that killer will run out of and would be forced to lose the 3 gen.
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What happens if a SWF decides to only repair the generators showed by Deja vu (which is the current 3 gen)? Would the killer get punished for defending the 3 gen, if there literally aren’t any other generators that need to be defended, because the survivors are purposely only repairing the 3 gen?
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I expect more something like swapping one gen from the 3 gens with an already done gen.
That's the worst solution I can imagine.
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With some killers on certain maps, you have to give up a gen in a far away place and try your best to defend the rest.
Witch such a solution, these killers would have a much harder time to play.
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i mean, worst case scenario, we can limit this feature only to the last gen, but I don't really see the issue in the scenario you've described.
if survivors throw themselves at this particular gen, then you can pressure them way easier. Keep in mind, it would still take 90 seconds to finish, it's just that killer can't infinitely regress it. And if survivors throw too many resources to remove this particular gen, killer would still have the regression capability for other gens, while survivors would be left weak
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I recognize that. But that is just a fundamental design problem with those killers. Like, you can't be like "3 genning is bad" but then still have killers like trapper which basically require you to 3gen to win.
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The "design" problem in this case is they aren't at least grade-A.
I must say, I like the mathematical solution approach though.
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You mean any more brain dead than killers intentionally forcing 3 gens and using it solely as a cheap and easy way to bore survivors to death to the point where they just give up after 30-40 minutes?
And incidentally, the Devs have already stated on more than one occasion they never intended 3 gens as a way for killers to hijack games.
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And when DBD was made they weren't intending for looping to be a thing.
So whats your point?
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If they just increase the distance between gens that would probably be fine, but if anything involves sharing Gen progress, or faster gens, or gens teleporting or whatever, it would be extremely unhealthy and purely a survivor buff that the game doesn't need.
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That would be awful and game-breaking. They'd have to massively buff killers if they did something like that. All the complaints people have about low mobility killers would actually be valid if they made that change.
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How so? I'm thinking you misunderstood something there.
However, i do agree that probably 80% of the killers in this game are not viable and need massive buffs, or survivors need massive nerfs.
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In the end we have no idea yet what this solution will look like. Ideally they would nerf 3 gen but add further changes that would help killers a bit with gens in general, making 3 gen not necessary in the first place. We'll just have to wait and see.
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I'm hoping it's just meant to address the lay-and-pray tactic of playing for a stall from the start of a match. You don't want to punish the killer if the survivors 3 gen themselves, but you also can't punish the survivors when the killer loads into Coal Tower/ARP/Suffo Pit/Dead Dawg/etc, has a 4 gen, and doesn't leave it under any circumstance. The killer should have to commit to somebody at some point if the survivors aren't taking the bait and going down in the 3 gen. Stalemates shouldn't be a thing.
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Why should the killer get punished for defending a 3 gen for the entire game, if those are literally the only generators being repaired? The killer literally doesn't have a choice to defend the other generators in these scenarios.
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killer is not being punished this way, they're merely limited in their ability to do it indefinitely.
plus, you're picking on this idea as something set in stone and written in the live patchnotes. it's just a general idea.
we could, for instance, limit only passive regression & buff corresponding perks accordingly so there's no infinite regression resources in this game anymore.
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I agree with you.
If this turns out to be another gift for 'bad' survivors then I will neglect playing weak killers then.
It's getting annoying to solve everything with basekit changes.
Especially to feed bad players rather than finding better solution.
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Some maps like Suffocation Pit or Azarov Resting Place forces you to play around a trigen as they have a 3-1-3 gen distribution in a |---| shape. Lets waits for their "solution" reach the PTB then we can discuss more.
But i'm afraid of this design philosphy were bad players have been earning basekit mechanics to compensate their mistakes (the same mechanics good players can abuse from the start)
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Since it's listed as QoL change, I hope it's something in the lines of "If game is not progressing for X minutes gens/survivors auras are revealed to everyone".
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Based on their idea proposed it will only detect / affect if a killer is trying to set up a 3 gen for a large portion of the game not get you out of a 3 gen situation if you create it yourself without the killer taking advantage of it earlier on in the match
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I really just want them to readjust gen spawning points especially in the maps like Dead Dawg.
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IDK how they plan on changing the game to get rid of 3 Genning
But I'd assume that it'll be more of a Survivor buff then anything... I hate to say it like that but it was the only way to convey what I wanted to say
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I don't play much killer anymore, but whenever I do play killer, all my wins stem from 3-gens. I don't intentionally go for a 3-gen, I'm just really good at gen defense. I'll drop a chase to push survivors off a gen. I'm conscious of how long I've been in a chase for, and I pay close attention to generators that have a lot of progress.
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This is correct. There's some concern that the final three gens will be undefendable, but the people on the stream were clear that what they wanted to deal with was the situation where Killers would - early on - try to find the 3 closest gens and set up so that Survivors would find it unreasonably difficult to beat, which I feel is mainly aimed at SoloQ who won't be able to strategise as well as a swf. It's to eliminate the "Chess Merchant" strategy.
My belief, therefore, is that this will not affect scenarios where Survivors end up in a 3-gen situation of their own making. If the Killer is actively doing their job and Survivors end up in a 3-gen because of poor planning and not because the Killer is camping it, then it's on them and it appears the devs recognise this.
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Right its a mechanic to counter act purposeful negative play that people don't enjoy rather than something that blanket buffs survivors which is what behavior wants, they don't want to fully remove mechanics like face-camping, and 3 gens, because they would be blanket buffs so instead they create systems that disincentives it and punish it rather than make something that's a blanket you can't do this and you can never do this.
I think these fair middle ground changes are a reasonable ask of both sides and make the game better. Unfortunately I do think that the killers who predominantly used or want to use these strategies also could use a bit more polish so depending on how rough it is there could be a few killers left out to dry but we won't know till it happens.
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Easy fix: dont let the system palce 3 gens next to each other. I know thats insane, right?
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As much as I hate to say things like that, I kind of thing you might be right. I don't force a 3-Gen, and those who are able to as killer are super-boring IMO. But, if the survivors aren't paying attention and 3-gen themselves, then that's their own, and so that's my fear of this "solution." It's probably going to end up punishing the killers for the survivors not paying attention.
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If they manage to handle that, then it's good.
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The issue with this is that it becomes very hard to distinguish cases where survivors misplay and 3 gen themselves, and cases where the killer notices a 3-gen off the bat and defends that (so survivors can only apply pressure outside that area). Players have figured out during/after the chess merchant era that if a killer is defending a 3-gen from the start, it's usually best to do the rest of the gens beforehand anyway, as you might not have time to do so afterward (exception being multiple Potential Energy users on the team). If we try to implement a solution that you wouldn't have a problem with, it would need to distinguish these scenarios based on where the killer is patrolling (or lack of chases/hits, which punishes killers that are just outmatched/doing poorly) and reply accordingly. Not really feasible imo.
I would rather a solution be a rebalancing of generator spawns as a whole, so that there are no possible 3-gens and also do away with gens where the killer just has to give it up for free because going there loses the game. Maybe adding more generators but changing safer generator spawns, like moving the Dead Dawg Saloon main generator to the first floor in the bar?
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If it is a significant change most maps will have to be overhauled as ending up defending a three gen is the only way for most lower tier Killers to stand a chance in many games. If they buff gen regression or nerf gen speeds, so that really helps the higher tier Killers map overhauls would be the only choice.
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well, I hope their fix to 3 gen is addressing hostage situations, alongside buffing the potential for good faith gen defence. because that's what the issue is, not just killer's ability to defend 3 generators, but survivors' inability to break the 3 gen eventually if the killer takes too long to break them.
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