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Problem w/ Balance
But I genuinely think that there is a problem in how a lot of people view solo queue and killer balance. It is not a valid reason to nerf a killer because your teammates don’t know how to play against them. I play solo queue almost exclusively, so I understand how frustrating it is to see your team go down in 5 seconds against a Wraith. But that is not a flaw in the game’s balance. Playing bad is supposed to give you a loss, that is how games are supposed to work. Is it unfun to be left on hook? Yes its terrible. But that is not the fault of the killer, it’s the fault of your teammates. Now i’m not saying that solo queue is balanced, because there is definitely things in this game that make solo queue hell. But I think we need to move away from the mindset that the solution is to nerf balanced or already weak killers.
Comments
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This all of this. It is a team game most don't play that way. But there are killers that don't play very well either. They will tunnel you out hardcore or just be terrible at it. Both sides are bad but entitled. They both feel as of they need to win. I don't mind losing if I get outplayed but if it's by cheesy tactics then I feel the players have no skill.
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Kinda how I'm feeling about the Sadako update in January.
I've coached friends on how to avoid Sadako mid match and got 4 man escapes, even when one had full condemned stacks. I do think she can build condemned a tad too fast, and addons like Mother's Comb should be changed, but reverting her to her old playstyle is a mistake that I've seen players praise but I remember it being a slog to do anything with her power because of TV cooldowns and survivors largely ignoring them because you could just loop Sadako and never touch a tape.
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You are right. Her counter is literally "grab a tape , do a gen, place tape in TV, repeat" I am amazed how mad survivors are that they have to do anything beyond just the generators.
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No, you balance for the most amount of people possible.
If a Killer is rocking a 85% KR against 90% of Survivors, but only 20% against the other 10%, that's still an issue and they need to be changed.
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The Onryo isn‘t fun to play since the rework. I mained her before the rework. It‘s not just the survivors.
The fun part was playing a hit and run playstile. The rework made her a lot worse in her kit, maybe against bad survivors better, but against good far worse.
Why should I want to spam condemned as killer.
Condemned was a side effect before, which was fine, but to force someone to play like this just, because it is the only thing that works. Is just stupid.
I agree that the cooldown should be much shorter, after a tp. Also the tape should be a counter to her tv and the teleport. So taking one to disable one should be worth it.
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You don't have to spam condemned with her change either. I don't and still get 3-4ks just fine.
I even run VCR and Distorted Photo and focus on hit and run/chase.
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This leads to the death of games. Trickle down balance is the way to go.
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Then it would be far easier for you with the old version, besides the condemned everything was better before. Only no undetectable, which isn‘t that good and no pallet immunity.
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Is this a team game? Not being able to communicate with your teammates or even see what kind of loadouts your teammates are running seems to indicate otherwise. The way the game is built is designed to make cooperation as difficult as possible. BHVR should just go the TCM route if they want to keep discouraging teamwork between survivors, and make it so every survivor can escape, without having to reply on their teammates.
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Except it really isn't. Survivors used to just rush out gens and leave, hold W and barely ever loop, and only touch tapes when condemned was too high, plus being able to just negate your power by keeping their tapes and depositing them when you hit them right in your face.
I bought the game when Sadako came out, and have played her this entire time. I remember very well what she used to be, and I honestly think many people forgot she was a worse Wraith.
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Or you know, just teach the 90% how to actually play instead of dumbing down the game for them.
If the 10% knows how to shut down the killers power to the point the killer has a 20% KR, then the killer is actually weak once the survivors stop Running into walls.
If you nerf a killer that has a 20% KR vs 10% of the pop, then said killer is going to 0% KR vs the 10%, that is not fun for anyone and the killer will not be played at all.
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I will not be watching that video for the fourth time. I saw it when it came out, and I have watched it every time you've linked it.
I absolutely DARE you to watch what happens if we balance for comp players. Hell, balance for me. You absolutely will not like it, nor will the VAST majority of players.
Now, YOU may be fine with the game dying and having a measly playerbase, but I highly doubt BHVR wants to lose that revenue. They are a business, first and foremost, and they will generally err on the side of the majority consumer. That means the casual player, if we get to a point where the majority consumer if a comp player, we've gone down a dark path indeed.
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Where did I say nerf.
I promise you, I am very particular in the words I choose. It's not an accident.
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So then you probably know what my next response will be then?
When are my nurse buffs coming in? Since every time BHVR releases killer stats, she is by far the lowest kill rate killer in the game.
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That thought goes both ways bro. Weaker killers shouldn't just have their numbers pumped to insane levels to fight against hivemind swf survivors
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Yes, you particularly said "Balance" ,however, if we "Balance" for the majority of people, we'll be forced to buff Nurse.
Since you know, if you include all MMRs, nurse has the lowest Killrate.
You cannot balance the game around survivors that run into walls or nurses that blink into basements.
There has to be an MMR cut-off where you tell people to get good instead of listening to demands for nerfs to the other side.
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Balancing around the top != balancing with consideration to the top.
You can create Killers, like Blight, who are balanced at a casual level and still viable competitively. I think, realistically, Nurse just makes a lot of people motion sick.
But no, I wouldn't be against making her easier to play, as I've stated the last few times we've had this conversation.
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Nurse still has over a 50% KR in those stats, ergo, she's fine.
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BHVR has stated the desired Killrate is around 60%.
Try again.
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I completely agree. The point is that requires a rework, not just blankly nerfing the killer.
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Literally every other game on the planet balances around the top players. Thats literally the best way to balance the game because who wants to be punished for getting better at the game? Once your players reach higher MMR they are not gonna wanna play anymore because it's extremely unbalanced. Most of the time those changes rarely have a negative impact on players who are at a lower level. As it often targets methods, strats and etc that lower level players don't understand or even know about.
You can't balance a game around people who struggle to even boot the game up. Especially in a game where there's two very distinct sides. If it was a fighting game or a shooter you could just use broken strat but there is no option here for that.
Otherwise you are gonna have people trying to yank their MMR so they can get better matches. The game should make you STRIVE to do better not worse. You are straight up talking about making the game a worse experience as you go on. There's only so much you can do when the other side has a plethora of handicaps.
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I mean if you watched the video that many times and still argue for the other side of the argument with nothing that makes any sense or anything for you to point to and say "See? Here's an example of why it doesn't work!' is just wasting your time and admitting you have no clue what you are talking about and you don't want to bother with getting better. One way or the other it's not good for the health of the game.
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Right, and every time we both think the other is fundamentally wrong, but i at least applaud you for consistency. And now we can go back to ignoring each other because i don't think we'll ever get anywhere.
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Yes and no. Other games still take lower skilled players into consideration when making changes. And dbd has a looot of things that hurt casual play.
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Yeah, I'm a solo main player and I agree. I feel like for a supposed "team game" I see very little efficient team work unless I'm playing with a 3man. It's a team when you're in a swf but alot of times in solo it comes down to every man for himself. Alot of the time the game feels like a 1v1v1v1v1. But I'm not sure what BHVR can do about it at this point, as going the TCM route would be too complicated at this point in the game. And VC isn't gonna work with this community. Heck apparently it's barely used in TCM.
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I don't think they can fix a lot of what's wrong with the game. This game is like a massive bundle of tangled wires. Every fix takes ages and doesn't even work most of the time.
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That's completely understandable. TBH a lot of this can be fixed with a casual mode and a ranked mode. Make casual a lot more loose MMR and Ranked tighter.
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I wouldn’t mind if sadako is brought back to her original hit-and-run kit (just plss make it better). Right now it feels the only hit-and-run killer thats decent is legion
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I am vaguely uninterested in arguing this point simply because I've had this argument numerous times before and I care not enough to do so again.
You genuinely think DBD would be better if we catered to people like me? That's genuinely surprising because it promotes the MOST boring parts of DBD and will remove any individuality.
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Agreed.
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That is why I did not say nerf
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BHVR has also shown that isn't always true.
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How about you use the top 5% mmr one where kill rates are higher across the board.
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Because as you might find out if you read the whole discussion, the topic being discussed was "Balancing for the majority".
And the "Majority" isn't in the top 5%, hence why they are the "5%".
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