I can’t thank you guys enough for the decisive buff
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Unfortunately for you it’s not YAYYYYYYY
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#webuffingDS
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"I think Decisive should actively punish killer who wish to hook the survivor just after being unhooked, not punish a killer for winning a chase and letting someone slugged."So here's the issue with this. Survivors will go out of there way to harass/annoy a killer to force a DS even if the killer has no interest in tunneling. This is another form of weaponizing DS. How? Granted this is DS from another life, but it's still a prime example of how survivors can weaponize perks.
Jane was hooked 2 HOOKS AGO.
Clearly you see that I had no intent to tunnel (How I avoided Yui, deep wounded Feng and continued the hunt for thickness) but I still got punished. Granted a situation like this will never happen again with DS, it's still a prime example of weaponizing the perk.
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You do realise that was pre conspicuous actions nerf that wouldn’t have been possible for the past like 2 and a half years lol
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I think killer players just have a bad taste from all the people weaponising it but also survivor is a lot weaker than it was back then
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Maybe they'll buff Eruption now?
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I don't want DS to get nerfed. But I kind of want it to happen seeing as everyone is assuming the update is gonna be a buff. Imagine if they nerfed it further instead of buffing it lmao
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DS and Unbreakable.
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No, more like inverted, maybe 10% would take a timeout. Right now, when someone is using DS I feel like "oof, that person just wasted a perkslot". Being hit during a trial by DS could lose you the match, and back in the days I always had it in the back of my mind and sometimes even checked my watch to know when 1min was over, but the thing that made DS uncool to verse was the 100% lose/lose in the endgame
Most Killers would probably have been 100% ok with just shutting down the perk during endgame, the 3s nerf was rather surprising for everyone involved and I wouldn't mind if they reverted the perk back to 5s and inactivating it during endgame.
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And therein lies the problem. It creates a perk combo where the killer is given no good choice. The survivor can intentionally body block and weaponize the DS. Now, if i pick them up, i get DSed, if i don't, they pick themselves up. Basically taking 2 perks, that are supposed to counter a specific playstyle, and allowing them to be weaponized by survivors and used OFFENSIVELY. That is why DS is such a problem and always has been.
The other problem is it creates a situation where you just have to literally assume every survivor has it. There is no other perk in the game that is so powerful that no survivor has to actually take the perk for it to be useful. You can literally have no survivors equip it, and it still is powerful.
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Last sentence in the post said
"Granted a situation like this will never happen again with DS"1 -
Got perks to counter slugging so it's cool
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Since folks here don't seem to be willing to look at the entire scenario and consider the extra time wasted, the difficulty of pulling it off, the low likelihood of it being useful and the fact that it needs additional perks to support it, I want folks to also take a deep breath, and say the following to themselves:
"It is okay for a survivor perk to sometimes benefit the survivors"
Because y'all are hardcore arguing that the perk should do literally nothing.
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We just come from a place where DS was a weaponized perk for years. I don´t know about you, but i don´t like weaponized perks.
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That's 2.5 years ago, bud.
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Wow, this became warfare really quickly!
I'll say that I find the decisive buff healthy,every time I get hit by decisive strike at the end game I wish I never bought this game so I believe that 5 second and end game deactivation is a fair rework.
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So you want those dark times to come back? Because 2,5 years passed?
How bout we also bring back infinites and exhaustion cd that reset during running?
Just because some years passed, doesn´t mean that we should bring back terrible things we had in the past.
EDIT: only a few months ago, we had the flashlight exploit. Our community happily jumped the occasion to make playing killer as unpleasant as possible. The devs kill switched it and tons of people complained that they suddenly couldn´t bully killers anymore.
I don´t really think bringing the old, weaponized, 2.5 year old back. Will be healthy for the game. I hope the devs don´t go that road and instead give us a completely changed perk. That can´t be weaponized but still is a viable option against tunneling (just turning the timer back to 5 seconds would do so much in that regard). But we´re talking about BHVR. So everything is possible.
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Literally no one is asking for pre-4.6 DS back though. Literally no one.
But you lot are all up in arms over a perk that is virtually impossible to use offensively because it might, might, under very rare and specific circumstances, with a lot of effort and coordination, be useful to a survivor sometimes.
Whatever trauma you have from pre-4.6 DS is no reason to hinder the game 2.5 years down the line.
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Since it is deactivated in endgame Im perfectly fine with it being 5 seconds or having a Haste effect with a 3 second stun.
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I´m just an optimistic with experience. I really hope the devs don´t turn DS into what it was before and find something useful for the perk. As i said, turning the stun timer to 5 seconds would probably be enough. But the announcement sounds like a total rework and the last reworks haven´t been exactly great.
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I didn't account for that situation because it can't happen anymore because of the conspicuos action system. But yes, you've been punished for "tunneling" even when not tunneling at all. I'm tired of eating Decisive when i just want to chase other people normally but someone gets in the way of the chase to get value of an anti-tunnel perk when they are not being tunneled.
I really wish they account these type of situation in a possible Decisive Buff so there is little to no way to weaponize a anti-tunnel perk.
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The problem is not getting value for a perk. The problem is getting value from a perk when it should not give you value. Decisive is obviously made to punish tunneling killers, who wants to HOOK the same survivor twice in under a minute. But since the perk can be abusable in so many ways, it gets value not just against tunneling, but against the normal stuff that happens in a game, like going after someone in a chase.
Edit: also, you forget that denying the killer a potential hit or even a down can turn the tide of the game, specially since the killer can fall to the DS + Unbrekable lose-lose situation.
Its hard to get an example from killer perks - surv and killer perks are quite different - but imagine if perk like Deadlock could be used to bodyblock a survivor to get a hit. It was designed for that, but could be abused to, granting "for free" two strong effects.
I think most of the people here - i hope so - are not against good perks for survivors (i also play survivor too). The problem is using a perk which has a VERY STRONG EFFECT to a situation it wasn't designided for and still getting great value for it.
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The problem is getting value from a perk when it should not give you value.
But you're not the arbiter of when a perk should or should not give value. Nowhere in DS's description does it outright say 'this is only for when the killer tunnels you'.
also, you forget that denying the killer a potential hit or even a down can turn the tide of the game, specially since the killer can fall to the DS + Unbrekable lose-lose situation.
But you're not denying a hit. This is like complaining about FTP giving an instant health state. It doesn't create health from nothing, much like DS doesn't blank out a hit like OTR does.
I think most of the people here - i hope so - are not against good perks for survivors (i also play survivor too). The problem is using a perk which has a VERY STRONG EFFECT to a situation it wasn't designided for and still getting great value for it.
But you're not taking that strong effect into a situation it wasn't designed for unless the killer makes the mistake of picking you up. If they don't, you wasted time running from hook into chase, waiting for the opportune moment, taking a hit, going down, and then you have to spend your time recovering or getting healed by another survivor, costing them their time too.
That is not a strong effect. That is a No Mither tier effect.
It's not abusing a perk, it's soft-throwing.
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I'm not intending to be an arbiter wheter or not a perk should have value, but the whole discussion about Decisive in this topic is about buffing or not because its AN ANTI-TUNNEL PERK. I don't see any other reason to buff Decisive if its not for making tunneling worse for killer. If the intent for the perk its for so many usages (bodyblock, anti-tunnel, aggro) i think the perk is fine: you just use the basekit BT to run towards a strong structure, use Decisive and then the chase restart.
Sorry, but its not throwing: a down in a match can be the difference between get multiple kills or multiple escapes. Now, if someone blocks you from getting a down, denying you even the possibilty of getting another hook (because the will stun you, get a health state and the run) its a massive downside for the killer. You need to remember that if someone with DS bodyblocks the killer, the other person will run away as far as they can, getting so much distance that you will need to start over the chase again.
In that regard, i will say it again: there should be measures to prevent Decisive weaponizing against non-tunneling killers. If there is not, i don't think Decisive need to be buffed by any measure.
Edit: about the FTP + Buckle Up combo, it DOES CREATE a Health state. A 10s temporary one, which can give the survivor 40 meters to run. So you wait until the 10s health state is gone, or you just eat it and let the chase begin again.
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I'm not intending to be an arbiter wheter or not a perk should have value, but the whole discussion about Decisive in this topic is about buffing or not because its AN ANTI-TUNNEL PERK.
Nope, that is a restriction that you are adding to it. This discussion is about DS in general.
Sorry, but its not throwing: a down in a match can be the difference between get multiple kills or multiple escapes.
But you're not denying a down. You're giving one in exchange for another.
Now, if someone blocks you from getting a down, denying you even the possibilty of getting another hook (because the will stun you, get a health state and the run)
They won't get a stun or a health state at all. DS doesn't activate upon going down.
ou need to remember that if someone with DS bodyblocks the killer, the other person will run away as far as they can, getting so much distance that you will need to start over the chase again.
That's only as much distance as the weapon wipe timer, because they don't get the on-hit sprint. This is slightly longer than a single whiff.
that regard, i will say it again: there should be measures to prevent Decisive weaponizing against non-tunneling killers.
There is one. It's the fact that you need to go down in order to use it.
Edit: about the FTP + Buckle Up combo, it DOES CREATE a Health state. A 10s temporary one, which can give the survivor 40 meters to run. So you wait until the 10s health state is gone, or you just eat it and let the chase begin again
No one mentioned Buckle Up.
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But you're not denying a down. You're giving one in exchange for another.
You are "giving" a down which cannot be picked up and potentially can pick themselves up. Its kinda of changing 1 to -1, because ir a normal chase you can at least do something.
But you're not denying a down. You're giving one in exchange for another.
A down which you cannot capitalize, instead of a down you could capitalize hooking the survivor, sacrificing him or making it closer to sacrifice.
No one mentioned Buckle Up.
Sorry, i've read quickly, since i've never seen someone saying that FTP itself give a health state. This is something people say about the FTP + Buckle Up combo
That's only as much distance as the weapon wipe timer, because they don't get the on-hit sprint. This is slightly longer than a single whiff.
Its much more distance than a whiff. It can be the diferrence between a survivor reaching a safe loop or taking a hit.
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A down which you cannot capitalize
You can capitalize on a down without picking a survivor up.
That's the point.
Its much more distance than a whiff. It can be the diferrence between a survivor reaching a safe loop or taking a hit.
That also applies to a whiff though!
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PTSD from old DS with Unbreakable kicks in every now and then..
Especially on Old Haddonfield. Lets hope it doesn’t make a comeback.
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The killer main victim mentality has been around since I started when you realise killer isn’t that hard and if you were actually good at the game you can win 90% of your matches by hard tunnelling.
i play both sides and killer is the easiest it’s ever been you whack on 4 slowdowns and tunnel and boom easy 4K…
I come from a time when there was infinites instaheals pallet vacuums old dead hard and more so yes survivor is weaker than it was back then like it’s a fact you just got to be good at the game
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Survivor is definitely weaker than it used to be. What are you on about?
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They have to be really careful here since no perk was as unpopular to the other side as DS was. It was worse than old undying and ruin to survivors. Perhaps they should just rework the perk to something else.
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Survivors will jump in locker killer have to wait 60s there and other 3 can work on gens. Counters tunneling but maybe not enough so the timer could be increased to 80s.
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I’m not in the camp of people that want DS gutted but you’re being pedantic here. DS was 100% weaponized especially if it was combined with Unbreakable. This combo was incredibly common (more so than I think any other survivor perk combo) and basically gave survivors a free heath state to abuse. There was legitimately nothing the killer could do.
Chase the unhooker? The DS user bodyblocks, makes the killer lose distance, then picks quickly picks themselves up with no problem.
Pick up the survivor and eat the DS? Killer loses distance.
If all survivors ran this then the killer would have to deal with this for a minimum of 4 times. All this while still having the powerful anti-tunneling and anti-slugging.
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That's two perks being dumped, on top of a hookstate, on top of the time wasted for the DS user to insert themselves into the chase, and on top of the recovery time, and this still threatens you somehow?
This is such a massive waste of time (and perks) for the survivors so long as you don't pick up the DS user.
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I have to ask how long have you been playing the game? This perk combo was the meta for years. It was neither a waste of perks or survivor time. It could take as little as only 30 seconds to get in front of the killer, get downed, and pick yourself up again. Meanwhile the unhooker has time to reach a pallet unscathed and your two teamates have free time to do gens. And again, you still have the value of anti-tunneling and anti-slugging.
Again, you are being pedantic. This wouldn’t have been meta for literal years if it was useless and a waste of time. If DS gets buffed back to 5 seconds, then this combo should be addressed. Keep the perk as purely anti-tunneling, not a weapon.
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That’s strange most killers mains said decisive strike was fine the only time I had a problem with ds was before the conspicuous actions Nerf but after that it was perfectly fine I don’t see them completely working ds it would be a sad day if they do it’s such an iconic perk
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I have to ask how long have you been playing the game?
I started shortly after 4.6.
This perk combo was the meta for years
Yes, it was. Because tunnelling was a problem, so survivors brought DS to combat it. Slugging was also a problem, and it was a way to counterplay the anti-tunnel value of DS, so UB was brought in to counter it.
It could take as little as only 30 seconds to get in front of the killer, get downed, and pick yourself up again.
But that still takes two perks, a hookstate, and, evidently, almost half of a gen, and the reward from it varies wildly and is nowhere near guaranteed. You'd need to be able to secure significantly more time to offset how far you're putting your team back, and the risk you place them in.
And again, you still have the value of anti-tunneling and anti-slugging.
No, you don't. UB is a single-use perk, so you'd be dropping that, which also means that your DS is, from that point on, largely pointless since the killer can retain pressure in spite of it by leaving you perma-slugged.
Again, you are being pedantic.
I'm not being pedantic. I'm not splitting hairs anywhere, I'm talking about this strategy being ineffective and unpopular! It's revisionist history to claim that offensive use of DS was rampant or a major problem. It wasn't. Post 4.6, there were two major complaints about DS: The lose-lose scenario of an EGC rescue, and DS's interference with tunnelling. One was dealt with, the other was rightly dismissed.
These complaints about DS being used offensively haven't risen up until -after- 6.1, and exclusively in a bid to keep DS from going back to a 5 second stun.
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I don't mind my current skill level, why do I have to be great at this game,why can't I just speak from my experience
Isn't that why we have buffs where they are and nerfs ? Isn't that why Solo Que got buffed but also making SWF OP? I'm just saying it feels like survivors are strong?
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Ds want nerfed to 3 seconds because of that, don't spread lies. The 3 seconds nerf came with the attempt to shake the meta, when otr took its place
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I think this is how killer mains felt about Eruption.The perk does nothing now? They could have just lowered the incapacitated status.
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