Why don't killers have Corrupt, hex: devour hope, bbq or grim embrace basekit?
Corrupt is always necessary to make games bearable.
Hex: devour hope, bbq and grim embrace encourage killers to not hook camp or slug survivors. I seriously miss playing against killers with barbecue years ago because I knew it always going to be a good time since there was no hook camping involved. Sucks how we got into this mess now
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Gee, I wonder why Killers don't have Devour Hope basekit.
Snarkiness aside, I don't think Killers need any basekit adjustment at this time. A couple of years ago, you could've convinced me, but Killer today is pretty strong.
Plus, if you get rid of Corrupt and make it basekit, that just frees up a slot for more regression.
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God no.
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I might agree with otzs take as a mid-game slow where if you hook each survivor once the gens get blocked for 40 seconds then embrace makes it 60.
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Corrupt? Sure. Grim Embrace? Strange but I can see it. BBQ? Too much info with other perks.
Devour Hope? That is one spicy take.
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Nuke top tier killers, sure.
Except Devour ofcourse
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Base kit perks aren't a good idea for either side. Not only do you get the advantage of a perk without having to equip it, you also free up perk slots for whatever else you want to use. Base kit BT might have been a mistake after all. They set the precedent and now everyone keeps asking for base kit adjustments.
This is what rubs me the wrong way with BT, the AFC and the upcoming 3 gen change too. A killer that does neither of these things is still heavily affected because survivors do not need any perks for these situations and can instead focus on everything else, which makes them much stronger even outside of these situations.
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*Hands over every Killer perk as basekit*
is there anything else we can get for you today to make your DBD life bearable… perhaps a complementary free 2K at the start of every match?
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I don’t think we need sweeping basekit changes, at least nothing this big. Just buff individual killers like Trapper or Pig
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A baby version of Corrupt Intervention is about as far as I'd debate from your list, and I do not think even that is necessary right now.
As for BBQ I will say I believe it was a mistake to remove the unique hook bonuses from it.
I think having those was much healthier for the game overall. That version was one of the most if not top perks all killers would run, not just because the aura reading was super useful but it did that AND gave the bp bonuses. It would strongly encourage hooking everyone at least once, so I and many killers would go out of their way to find each surv. I have no doubt it kept direct tunneling numbers lower than they might have been.
Usage of BBQ dipped since that change, but over the last few months it has risen somewhat as its current effect is still worth it on many killers. Aura reading perks have slowly replaced other choices made less appealing as they updated chase and gen defense ones.
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LMAO
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Hard to give killers basekit stuff when nurse/blight/spirit simply don't need it to win the majority of their matches.
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I am very negative towards using Perks as basekit, unless it is to solve a very real problem. The whole point of Perks is to pick your playstyle. Neither Survivors nor Killers should be spoonfed Perk abilities, just because they want them. It defeats the whole idea of a perk.
Besides, Killers can win without "Corrupt Intervention" and such. There is no Perk currently in play that anyone can say a Trial cannot be won without it.
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While I do understand that Corrupt and Grim Embrace might be a good measure to provoke a healthy gameplay from killer side...
But Devour hope? BBQ basekit? What the hell? xD
Like chill bro. =)
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That sounds so balanced! 60 seconds where the survivors can literally do nothing while the killer has no reason whatsoever to leave the hook because all gens are blocked anyway, for the duration of a whole hook stage too!
You should totally get hired at bhvr, you'd be a great addition to the balance team
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Killers are only strong in solo queue, but you know that.
Game would be in a healthier state if they removed tunneling and camping as strategies, made solo queue better, and buffed killers as a whole to deal with how fast gens can go and with tunneling and camping removed.
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Let me guess, you also think 3 gens are a problem and need to be removed, but don't think the fact that killers typically lose 2-3 gens in the first chase is a problem which by definition is creating the 3 gen problem?
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This! Every time something that was formerly covered by a perk becomes basekit, this just diluted perk variety and cements the meta even further. Its like wanting the cake and eating it. My personal take is that if a perk has an effect that you would want it to be basekit, why not simply make room for it in your loadout and equip it? People are often so hung up on the idea that they need to run their 4 meta perks, OR ELSE! Newsflash: you can do pretty fine without meta perks, so you can most definitely do fine with 3 and one off-meta perk. (BTW, even though I said "you" a lot, I wasn't addressing you, but some player in general, I am just using your comment as a jump off point).
The only perk that I would consider getting a basekit version is BBQ. Hear me out! Back in the days everyone had BBQ equipped for the blood points. I remember how BBW was permanently fused to all my killers first loadout slot, it felt like you were actively hurting yourself to not play with it. But with everyone having it equipped, killers saw all kind of opportunities after hooking and got a new target, thus peeling them away from the hooks.
I always propose two things:
1) give killers old BBQs bloodpoint mechanic back at basekit, ie +25% more BP for each different hooked survivor, but only increase the counter as long as all four survivors are still alive. So if you want the max +100% bonus, you can't tunnel any survivor out of the game before you got everyone hooked. This is the carrot part that many seem to forget exists, too, we are so eager to apply the stick.
2) upon hooking show the killer ONE aura of a survivor, preferable a non hooked one and never a survivor on death hook, that is 40m away. Way worse then real BBQ, but still something to work with at any level and maybe enough to peel even contemporary killers away from the hook.
I am 10000000% convinced that with these changes we would see a lot less tunneling and more spreading of hooks. Then we should tackle gen speeds next, maybe by rearding survivors for working on gens together and a shared +10k BP if they finish gens together, leading to less spreading and pressure on the killer during the early part of the game. We could limit this to the first three gens done, so if survivors spread out at the start and three gens pop during the first chase, that means less BP for everyone.
Just my two blood points, but I think we should think more about the carrot aspect of incentivising players to do the proper and right and fun thing, and less about pummeling everything we don't like or nuking it from orbit.
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Glad you asked! Usually I wouldn't reply to you since you tend to make assumptions and strawmans to twist arguments in your favor with stuff that has nothing to do with the topic (just like now), but I'll make an exception today since I stated what I think about the 3gen rework already:
Here is my stance on it!
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I feel like that's simply not true.
A SWF does not make those 4 players good. It gives them tools, but it doesn't magically increase their game sense or awareness of macro play.
If you're a good Killer, you'll still win the vast majority of your matches, even against SWF's.
Heck, I even played competitively with Killers like Wraith and Wesker.
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"If you're a good Killer, you'll still win the vast majority of your matches, even against SWF's."
"Heck, I even played competitively with Killers like Wraith and Wesker."
I'd love to watch a video of you playing against a competitive SWF as Wraith. xD
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It was...extremely stressful.
Iirc, I got 3 Kills with 10 hooks on Dead Dawg but god damn dude, that was extremely stressful.
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(BTW, even though I said "you" a lot, I wasn't addressing you, but some player in general, I am just using your comment as a jump off point).
I feel personally offended and will never recover from this attack.
Jokes aside, I definitely agree, that we do not need to run 4 meta perks. I refuse to use slow down perks and I can still perform somewhat fine (although considerably worse than before 6.1.0, I think). It leaves me extremely vulnerable to survivors that play effiecient but I can still beat many of them by focusing on what I am good at. The chase and information. Just earlier today I played Billy with Shadowborn only and got a 4k at 3 gens. Because instead of relying on perks, I try to play smart, switch targets and punish mistakes. This worked because these survivors were not used to a killer using every of their mistakes against them (2 downs at the start of the game because one fell for a bait) and being forced outside of their comfort zone.
I have thought about something like a base kit BBQ too (especially your second point) and I think it would be nice to have a short aura reveal of one survivor with the least hook stages after every hook. Ideally this would be taken as a hint where to go next and deactivate once a survivor is dead. I think this reasonably powerful to not be considered a major balance change because tunneling would still be the more effective strategy. However, combined with a 5 seconds DS this could really help with this whole situation.
Right now there is no incentive to go after anyone other than the person that was recently unhooked. Not only that but you also have a direction to go next because you know that 2 survivors were there. Meaning, that hiding actually makes this even worse and speaks for our suggested carrot approach. A killer will use everything they can to find a survivor and when nothing else works, then going back to the hook is the best option. Not only are there 2 survivors in that direction but one is also injured and easier to track.
One thing I definitely do not want to see again is a meta perk becoming a base kit feature. They already broke the whole meta and allowed / encouraged survivors to use more perk slots for punishing a killer when they do play 'fair'. But this defies the whole purpose of that base kit mechanic because it forces the killer to play more effective, which means tunneling / camping / slugging / 3 genning.
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One you dont know how difficult it is to hook each survivor the first time. Especially when one plays more stealthy and the others aggro. Two. We have anticamp and i just said that was a idea for a mid-game slow mechanic because that seems to be the problem is the killer can never catch up in the mid-game. Obviously if they made it a basekit thing thered be stipulations around it like what otz said in his video. Three. Im a player not a dev. Im sure they have better ideas then me. Just made a suggestion for something killers have been asking for for years so that regression can finally be pushed away from a meta. And you dont feel like you need to tunnel or 3 gen or camp because theres actually something awarding you for spreading pressure amongst the survivors.
Lets just be respectful.
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The difference between basekit BT and the concept of basekit Corrupt is simply down to variables. Basekit BT works the same every time, and only really punishes killers who are hitting survivors straight off hook. Its easy to go a full match and not even need it.
Basekit Corrupt would essentially be a bandaid fix to a much bigger issue: gen spawns/layout. Sure, basekit Corrupt on Mothers Dwelling or Badham sounds great, but what about small maps like Dead Dawg or Midwhich? Loading into one of those maps as survivor with basekit Corrupt, and as someone else pointed out, an empty killer perk slot for yet more gen slow-down would simply be GG for that survivor… easy win for killer (especially 3 gen killers and those with high mobility).
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There's players out there who are good enough at killer and can manage to get extremely high winstreaks. Imagine giving them all these perks basekit. They'd pretty much have 0 chance at losing the game anymore.
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I don't know? I mostly play killer bro
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