Why do you hate when killers tunnel but its fine when survivors do it?
I see threads on here all the time about how much people hate it when killers tunnel, but nobody ever talks about it when survivors do it. Why? Survivors can hard tunnel gens just as much as killers can tunnel survivors. For example.
- Rushing a nearby gen right as the killer picks up a survivor
- Refusing to heal each other or themselves in order to gens
- Completely ignoring totems (and ironically then complaining about NOED at the end)
- Completely ignoring chests
- Not body blocking
- Leaving teammates on the hook to work on gens
These are just a few examples, but in general survivors can "tunnel" their objective just as much as killers can, yet nobody says anything about it.
Comments
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I see threads almost daily complaining about Survivors not healing and doing gens instead.
Putting aside the absolute ridiculousness of your statement (seriously, Survivors cannot tunnel someone out) and looking at your basal argument...half of these things are throwing and the other half are already complained about.
Survivors do not usually have time to do totems or chests, nor do they generally have time to waste healing after the self-healing nerfs in the current meta. Just like Killers usually do not have time to one-hook everyone, then two-hook everyone and then three-hook everyone.
Speaking of which, I find it endlessly amusing that the cycle continues. I watched this exact thing play out five years ago after the first round of self-healing nerfs. Killers complained about Survivors healing too quickly, BHVR obliged them and nerfed healing. Survivors didn't waste time healing and just, to quote you, tunneled gens...you know, their only objective. Killers complained that gens went too quickly and the cycle continues to this day.
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- You know killer will kick this gen with Pop, so it's better to finish it before this happen.
- Healing is waste of time thanks to BHVR. They nerfed healing to ground. It's pointless to heal if you are not dead on hook.
- BHVR nerfed boons into ground as well. And killers are rarely using hex totems. There is no point to cleanse totems.
- Chests are waste of time. Bringing item in lobby is better.
- This hardly happens unless it's last gen. If last gen is about 50 - 60% , it's smart to focus on gen and finish it.
Blame BHVR for current survivor play. They nerfed chase perks. They nerfed heal perks and med-kits. Boons are pointless and weak. Only gens left.
And all killers are tunnelling so hard, so it's better to finish gens before killer make someone out.
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Here's an example in a game i JUST played.
So i intentionally was playing nice. Trying to go for chases and go for multiple hooks on everyone. I hook a guy near a gen at like 80%, there were 3 gens left for them to do. I leave the hook, start chasing someone else. The guy gets unhooked right. So i turn to look over, and he IMMEDIATELY hops on that gen at 80%. Meaning i now KNOW he doesn't have OTR, he doesn't have DS, he doesn't have BT, he has nothing. He is still injured, and he isn't healing.
In this situation, i chose not to go for him, because i was intentionally playing nice. I ended up still getting a win that game anyway, and that isn't what is important. The point i'm making is. If i had gone after that guy, and punished him for his mistake there. I would have been called out, called a "tunneler trash killer" etc. So my point is. Why is it ok for survivors to do what the guy did, but the killer punishing that guy is suddenly some kind of grand injustice? I'm merely pointing out the double standard here and wondering why most people aren't seeing it.
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I understand what you are saying. Survivors play in not so nice ways too but they much more subtle, mainly using comms. You cannot even verify this as Killer, meanwhile things such as camping and tunneling are quite obvious.
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Whats ridiculous about that statement?
If you boil the core gameplay down, gens are nothing else for the killer than what hook stages are for survivors.
Survivors don´t waste time on totems, because there simply are no strong hex (or boon) perks right now. Even more, teammates will complain about anyone who does totems instead of gens, since we have the HUD.
Maybe killers are still complaining about gens, because in most matches 2 or 3 gens are finished by the time the killer gets the first hook.
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In your case you are right. This guy can't complain about tunnelling since if they have time to sit on gen.
But that's what we are asking anyway. If they progress the game, non of anti tunnel perks will protect them and they will be easy target. If they are putting themself in this situation, there is no blame to killer.
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Also, we agree on one thing, the game goes too fast for both sides. This game is a giant snowball fast. Killers run a ton of gen slowdown perks and try and down someone as fast as possible. If that chases lasts more than 30 seconds, they just lost 3 gens. And then at the same time people complain about "the 3 gen" but like, by design the killer is extremely weak that early and 3 gens are the only way killers can play and not tunnel/camp.
On top of that, killers can just remove someone from the game as fast as possible, meaning that survivors these days have no room to make any mistakes, because if they do, someone gets removed, and now they get to sit around a near guaranteed loss while the killer slowly cleans up the game.
This leads to one side basically beating the other in the first 90 seconds of a match, and then the losing side now has to slog it out for another 8 minutes while they lose. This is why people ragequit, kill themselves on hook, and DC so quickly. Because each match is decided in the first minute or 2.
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Maybe you say that, but i'm saying the vast majority of players would complain about me going after him if they were that guy. And you know it too.
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Dude I understand you 100% and agree with you but it's totally pointless arguing with these people on here. You bring up a very valid point and a observation of total hypocrisy from the survivor side.
My favorite is when you kick a gen and it has blast mine on it and the survivor nearby finishes the gen while you are standing right there blinded and can't do anything about it. Just totally cocky and absurd gameplay but it's ok. Killer does anything even close to this crap and they get immediatly flamed and called out.
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Staying injured is the risk of survivor taking it. Sitting on gen as injured is double risk. If they had time to heal but refused, they can't complain about it. Right now tunnelling is strong and OTR is hardly doing anything but if they buff DS, nobody can complain about tunnelling anymore.
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Buffing DS is a mistake, they should fix it on a fundamental level, not with a perk. All that leads is everyone taking the same perk, and now we end up right back where we were where everyone runs the same 4 perks every game and BHVR starts nerfing them and making them useless.
And again, i agree with you on the risks of staying injured, i'm saying that the VAST majority of players would say i'm a "tunneling scumbag" in that situation if i capitalized on it.
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To add onto that, this is also why both sides come out swinging, so to speak.
You have zero idea what the other players are gonna do, so you have to prepare for the absolute worst-case scenario. If you come out playing soft and the other side isn't, the game's over.
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I would love to see some stats to back that claim up.
I doubt BHVR will release those though.
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Prioritising generators is not always the best and most convenient choice, everything you mentioned has consequences that the survivors will have to pay for.
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I mean we all know DbD community is one of the worst.
Game has some issues and they need to be fixed but some people will cry about their losses and blame anything but their skills.
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Like the 3 gen nerf?
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Skill issue. Do better at applying pressure. Killer is easier than it has ever been. I always get 4ks as Trapper without trying.
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People don't complain about this because tunneling someone out and doing gens are absolutely not equivalent lol
A better equivalent to those examples of "gen tunneling" would be "oh no a killer is chasing survivors ! and hooking them ! how dare they ?"
People complain about tunneling because it basically forbids a player from playing the game. No one is going around complaining that "killers are using the best strategy to win!", they're complaining because said best strategy currently sucks to go against (and is often not even needed).
Taking someone out as quickly as possible is one way for killers to play, while doing gens is quite literally what survivors are supposed to do.
So you're complaining because you chose to spare a guy for no reason, still won but then got mad over insults you decided would have been sent to you if you hadn't spared the guy (which again, no one forced you to do) ?
like "Why is it ok for survivors to do what the guy did, but the killer punishing that guy is suddenly some kind of grand injustice." idk man, you're literally the one making all of this stuff up and getting mad over it to complain about survivors (over stuff they didn't even say)
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Everytime I enter a match playing a survivor Im just prepared to get tunnelled, or to have a teammate tunnelled out at 4-5 gens by a killer thats using SB, PR and Pop as everyone else, so I will try to be as efficient as possible, because 3v1 in a 2gens scenario its still doable, 3v1 in 4-3 gens its almost impossible. So the fact that you played "nice" one match, doesnt balance the other 99% of the killers that plays in the same nasty-sweating their asses off-way, so trying to be efficients even if that means avoiding chests, dull totems, or even being injured, its the only thing a soloq survivor can do. Because also, if they go and flashlight save or sabo hooks, they will be considered as toxics, even when they are not repairing gens which is something positive for the killer.
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That is the entire point of this thread. See my second post, where if i were to capitalize on those "choices" i would be labeled a "tunneling trash killer"
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I'm not complaining so to speak. Like i said, i was intentionally doing that, and that is fine. My point is, if i had made the OTHER choice, i GUARANTEE i would have been labeled a "trash tunneler" and be part of the community of killers that end up in those threads of survivors complaining about tunneling.
I'm simply pointing out a double standard here. Nobody complains that the guy "tunneled" the gen in that situation. What they complain about is if i "tunnel the survivor" because they left themselves wide open for it.
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Hey, can you record some videos and post them on youtube to show us how you are able to do this? Would love to learn from someone who is really good with trapper as i'm pretty trash with him. You can use OBS (the same software streamers use) to record videos totally free and upload them to youtube also totally free. No need to talk, or do any fancy editing. Just seeing some good matches would be great.
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I mean, if your entire complaint is the worry to be labeled a "tunneling trash killer" by a dumb survivor who made the worst choice possible, who cares then?
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Tunneled out Survivor has to re-queue....no chance of having a worthwhile game they queued for. Killer has chance for a comeback. 3vs1 is not great time for 3 that are left. Harder to comeback.
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"Why is no one complaining about survivors tunneling gens?"
Generators cannot post on the forums, otherwise there would be many complaints.
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I think it is more that, during the first chase, against any decent survivor team, 1 or 2 predropped god pallets, and you will lose 2-3 gens to get that first hook.
Now what happens there? Well because the way survivors spawn, that typically means the 3-4 gens that are left, are going to be close together, thus creating a 3 gen. Killer's don't even have to try to force a 3 gen often times because it just happens naturally.
At the same time, when i complain about how fast killers lose those first few gens people say: "well that is by design, killers are weaker early but once they have pressure the game slows down" But then BY DESIGN the 3 gen is part of the game. So nerfing 3 gens without also evening out that early game is going to cause a ton of problems. Because what happens when the killer loses those first 3 gens, and now the last 4 are so close together the killer just, by default is "3 genning".
The problem with 3 genning isn't the 3 gen itself, it is a fundamental design problem where killers are so weak early on, and strong later on. What they need to do is take some of that power later on and add it to the early game to even out the curve of power which makes 3 genning so frustrating to go against, and the early game so frustrating for a killer.
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Yes, every single point is right. But killer can punish such gameplay very badly, and turn it into a 100% 3-4k.=)
They don't heal? Chases are 2-times faster.
Teammates should be a priority, not gens. Sacrifice 1 hook stage for a gen - you got one less teammate. Try to blame the killer then, gl.
"Healing is a waste of time"
Wtf did I just read...? Do you actually not healing in your matches at all?
You must be really don't care about escaping huh.=)
Btw, you can blame Developers for the current killer play (tunneling). (Which I really doubt, players are really overreacting on how much killers tunnels in the game atm.)
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Again, you are missing my point. My point is, "punishing" such gameplay, means the killer is probably going to end up tunneling. And when doing so, the killer gets yelled at and people hate it, but i'm saying that "its ok when survivors do it" seems to be the mentality of the community.
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I am healing but i am leaving my heal at 99% which gives me max value as injured. If killer has Haemorrhage, i am not wasting my time with heal and focusing on gen. SB + Vigil gives me good chance to run early when killer comes to me.
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My point is, if i had made the OTHER choice, i GUARANTEE i would have been labeled a "trash tunneler"
...so you're complaining about something that didn't happen
Crazy how you made up the rule that killers aren't allowed to touch someone doing a gen in their face, enforced it by making the active choice to spare the guy, and are now complaining about this "double standard" that doesn't even exist because you just made it up.
Only the survivor equivalent of killers calling pallet stuns toxic would complain about the situation you're describing, and idk about you but I don't care much about the opinions of players who are that entitled.
Also, don't force yourself to play by the "opposite side's rulebook", especially when you made it up, and even more so if you're going to complain about it after. No one forced you to spare the guy, no one would have complained if you hadn't, and no one can stop you from playing like you want, so tunnel away or whatever if that's what you feel like doing. What's the point of forcing yourself to play nice if it's to get upset about what would possibily happened if you hadn't ? Might as well just play like you want and complain when someone actually says something (or mute the chat altogehter if you don't want to see people complaining.
Finally, there is no such thing as tunneling a gen and i already explained how those things aren't equivalent at all in my previous reply.
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You are totally speculating about a not yet revealed feature.
The "Solution against 3-gen" should only punish those killers who behave as I mentioned above, this has nothing do to about survivors 3-genning themself.
In any case, regardless, the spawn of generators must be revised. There are maps where within 10 metres you find 2 gen and in 20 metres 3.
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What if the killer doesn't have pop, the killer has 3 hooks on 3 different people and the 4th Gen is done.
Would you pop the final one in his face even if it means that you go down?
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You are again missing the point.
The game is literally BY DESIGN supposed to make 3 genning a thing. The game is LITERALLY DESIGNED WITH THAT IN MIND. Because killers are BY DESIGN weaker in the early game, such that you WILL LOSE 3 gens in the first chase against any decent survivor team.
Thus my point is, not that 3 genning is a bug, but it is a feature, a conscious decision by the devs.
I'm not saying it is good, but i'm saying that it is part of the fundamental design of the game. Thus something more will have to be done.
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I can't talk for someone else but Pop and PR are in 90% of my games. Corrupt is also so high. And some information perks for last slot usually.
Now when i go against this sweaty builds most times, i can't play chill. Especially when most of games killers are tunnelling someone out for even more pressure.
And yes, getting end game as fast as you can is best scenario where someone survives. So if this will give chance to my teammates escape, i will do that.
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Hey hope today finds you well. but let me try to explain it to you how I see it. Not everyone will agree and that's fine. Just how I see it.
So I love this game. You tunneling me isn't a big deal I'm used to it and am a very decent looper and time waster.
That said my friend asked me if dead by daylight was any good.I told him no I don't recommend him playing it at all. Cause he would just be frustrated after a few matchs.
While I don't know where my mmr is. (as none of us do) I'm sure we would not be with a new killer. He would be seen as weakest link.( cause he is cause he's new) and be stuck in a gameplay loop were no matter what anyone does he loses and if we all commit to trying to save him we all lose. I don't expect 2 randoms to care. So after 2 to 3 games he's gonna quit and that's a waste of time. I get tunneling is a part of this game and is a smart strategy . But there is a difference in people doing gens and your job to stop them.
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Imagine generator complains during the Gen kick meta
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If survivor are decent enough as you said, they should acknowledge the problem of this hypotetic 3 GENNING FEATURE that the devs have spontaneously implemented in their games, and thus should be able to fight it, otherwise they wouldn't be as good as you think , and in this case you should also be able to kill them and win.
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But let's assume you play against the killer in my example. Would you do it?
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3 gens are a think since dbd existed. The game is as @Reinami stated designed around the killer being stronger in end game. Less gens to defend = less traversing the map = less space that needs to be covered.
If survivors play it correct and destroy the 3 Gen before it becomes problematic for then, they played well. If they play themselves into the problematic 3 gen situation, they played badly and deserve to have to deal with an endgame advantage of the killer. Pushing through a 3 Gen isn't impossible it just becomes very hard without coordination, some killer perks and our dear lady with her drones of torment.
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Because spending the whole match holding M1 is extremely fun, while having 3 guaranted chases with the killer is ruining your horror game experience. It doesn't make any sense to you? Well, neither for you nor for anyone looking for an interactive experience.
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Nothing else to say, totally agree.
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The sweaty build you are talking about is a response to survivor bs
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Then what was the problem?
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Tunneling is as direct to the objective as going from gen to gen. It's a playstyle not everyone will enjoy, but it's essentially just playing the game the most optimal way. Get upset all day long, it's going to still be part of the game.
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Who cares what he would call you, him hopping on a gen in your face makes it not tunneling. Hence the conspicuous action and his potential OTR/DS being gone.
This game is asymmetrical, survivors "tunneling" generators is not the same as the killer tunneling someone out. As a survivor, when a killer is hard tunneling, you will get no meaningful killer interaction in that game unless you want to throw the game and take 500 hits (which still won't result in fun interaction, you will just get slugged on the ground, no chase) or you are lucky enough to find a spot where you can stand and take one hit. The killer will never chase you, never commit to you until that guy is dead, so your game is now just holding M1 on generator. It puts you in a scenario where there's no interaction or fun for you and you can only do gens. And as the tunneled survivor it's not always fun taking chases when they're right off hook or in deadzones where you have little to work with.
Contrast this with killer, when survivors "tunnel generators" aka focus on their objective. Keep in mind we're not talking about the game balance here, like with tunneling, the same arguments apply for why it is hated/boring even if the killer has 0 chance of winning anyway. When survivors focus on generators over everything else, they are not denying you as a killer interaction with them, unless they are literally holding M1 on a gen and never getting off even if you come to kill them. You can still chase anyone you want, use your power however you want, etc. The ball is completely in your court. You want to get your daily/archive/challenge? Go ahead, some might be hard, but no one can stop you from traveling to any location on the map, or initiating chase with any survivor. You want to have fun chases? Go for it. Survivors "tunneling" generators only speeds the game up and forces you to use your time wisely.
You can make an argument that it is unfun for you as a killer to lose in a fast game, but that is a balance conversation. If generators took 10 minutes to complete, would you gripe about survivors "tunneling" generators? No, because it changes nothing. It does not limit your interaction with the opponent nor force you into any one playstyle. Meanwhile, what if survivors had 10 hook states? Tunneling would still be just as boring as ever, you would not be getting chased, you will get no interaction, you get forced into either doing gens all game or running from the killer all game. That is the fundamental difference between the two because this is an asymmetrical game.
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Where is the problem?
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Self care is funny with bite the bullet, cause it can sometimes throw the killer off with the silence, or my I'm just low skill so it happens more often, lol
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Like every online multiplayer game?
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"Kick me again"
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