Have BHVR ever completely reverted a change?
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Sadako might be the start.
#bringbackSadako
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They reverted goj breakable wall 🤡🤡
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Odd. I don't think I ever needed NOED on him. Like, ever.
Didn't play around the Endgame, either. My build would usually be something along the lines of: Old Ruin, Old BBQ, Thanatophobia and Brutal Strength. Add-ons changed from time to time, but I was really fond of increased range and less skill checks while asleep.
It was a good build, overall. Way better than NOED and Endgame perks.
What was your strategy with him? Because something isn't adding up here.
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Just a normal strategy, but old Freddy had a mechanic where you had to tag someone with a sleepy beam before hitting them 7 seconds later. It made hook saves at endgame brain dead easy since even if you tagged someone running up to the hook, they'd have their teammate unhooked and on the way to the gate before you can get the first hit in. Without a 1 hit down... they just run out the gates with that much of a head start.
I actually liked using old class photo, which made overall juggling easier, but increased the sleep time to 9 seconds.
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I mained him too, you know? Which is why I was wondering about the endgame comments.
I never camped during the endgame, nor prepared much for it. I always tried to win before all the gens got done, but sometimes it just ain't possible.
What I would do in those situations depended on how many survivors were still alive, to be honest. But overall, I agree with the problem of not being able to top the unhook, which is precisely why I constantly mention the idea of giving him the Incapacitated status effect during the Transitions, as it literally solves the problem.
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That would be nice, lol. I tried to avoid totem perks because even if you found a survivor cleansing it...you can't hit them. Find a survivor opening a gate, you MIGHT be able to stop it if it's just started but otherwise, they just continue. Find a survivor about to finish a gen and you just have to watch them finish.
Also if they get a skillcheck during any point of finishing a gen/healing in your face, the wasted time from failing it more than makes up for the 7 seconds of reset sleepy beam time.
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You know what I liked to do? Stack blocks.
It was so funny when you managed to grab a survivor because they thought they would have time to finish the gen / cleanse the totem before the transition lapse.
That was priceless.
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Dude i was so confused.
I heard they made it so that his m2 can inflict it but took a break at that time and was confused why it wouldnt work.
Why did they revert it?
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That's what alot of ppl did. I just wanted to try for more of a macro game with keeping as many ppl tagged at once and utilizing the aura reading, otherwise your just a worse Wraith with no map traversal and a really long uncloak.
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I usually did that too, except when I was using a very specific build, such as the stacked blocks or Red Paint Brush.
Ah, I really miss him. More than anything else in this game.
And I dare say, more than anyone else does.
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Would be cool if they had an addon to give me that old experience, except maybe with your idea for the transition period. Considering how less used self care is now, you wouldn't have ppl waking up mid chase as much either, lol.
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If it doesn’t immediately land perhaps assess why it was done in the first place and maybe see it was a bad idea in the first place.
Overheat does nothing but hamper Billy, thete are no positives. It also stops people from playing him as now you have consider the Overheat while getting timing right.
You brought up perception, exactly. Even if it has no effect mechanically, it has a psychological effect that results in less chainsaw use, especially for people who are learning him.
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The flashlight "fix" before the howling grounds event?
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Yeah, absolutely assess it. My point is that after it's assessed, at least in this game, you'll very rarely find that it was a bad idea.
Overheat, sure, whatever. Get rid of it, it doesn't make a difference either way. That's a bit of an outlier, though, and again- doing that won't fix Hillbilly. It won't even help.
I am gonna push back on the idea that you "need to consider Overheat" now, though. No you don't, lol. You have to go out of your way to actually have Overheat matter. It has no positives but it has no negatives, either. It does nothing.
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An add-on?
I'm going for an actual change.
Freddy is currently trending, so there might be a chance.
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Freddy was awful to play as and a joke to play against back then, period. Only working strategy for freddy was stalling the game out until he won. Bringing back his old design would not only be worse than what we already have, but we'd be sitting with a killer who not only has inbuild slowdown, but who is now gonna drag games out even more than previously with the amount of slowdown perks in the game.
But hey, if people wanna add forever freddy 2.0 into the game and have another killer who can prolong matches for an unnecessary amount of time, then by all means, go right ahead.
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I mean itd be better than what they are probably doing again if they are not removing it because they said "we plan to make it even more forgiving" so, we speaking if you now move around the map with it youll generate a lot less charge to? (Since they increased it when traversing the map when they did the change to make it meaningless when revving) so now itll do absolutely nothing in the case of traversing and reving? I mean i guess if the mechanic still exists but does nothing in all cases. No need to remove it lol. Just makes it sound weird to be there in the first place. (Since i assume their also moving away from addons interacting with it) itll just be...there.
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As an Old Freddy main, I can definitely tell you it was not the only working strategy. There is also the matter that no one is asking for him to return exactly as he was. Old Freddy was and still is my favorite thing about DBD, but he was in need of QoL changes for a long time.
QoL changes which are included in my proposal, btw :)
Also, the built-in slowdown will not be an issue. Numbers can be changed individually, and even if they aren't, the bulk of the slowdown will depend upon you staying asleep, which is something you definitely don't wanna do when facing Freddy, period.
EDIT: His synergy with new perks would also be fun to test.
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As an Old Freddy main, I can definitely tell you it was not the only working strategy. There is also the matter that no one is asking for him to return exactly as he was. Old Freddy was and still is my favorite thing about DBD, but he was in need of QoL changes for a long time.
Slugging and stalling matches with his slowdown was the strategy most freddy players used because it was the most effective, i know because i too have played as and against all versions of freddy throughout dbd's lifespan.
Either that or his power gets rendered irrelevant half the time because Survivors failing skill check during dream transition and or just walking to a pallet before dream transition ends everytime as their safety net.
Also let's not forget how on high level play, Freddy would absolutely get demolished 90% of the time, and way easier than most other killers.
If we went by your proposal, you'd bring back all the elements from old freddy that alot of people hated and complained about back then with only some adjustment to it while only keeping dream projection from his current kit, all of which i not only believe is a terrible idea, but i absolutely abhorre the very thought of having any semblance of his first iteration in the game again, sorry but no, it ain't it chief.
Freddy needs QOL to his current power, what he doesn't need is to be reverted back to his old kit with adjustments.
Also, the built-in slowdown will not be an issue. Numbers can be changed individually, and even if they aren't, the bulk of the slowdown will depend upon on staying asleep, which is something you definitely don't wanna do when facing Freddy, period.
The slowdown was very much an issue, being forced to fail a skill check in order to wake up if all survivors was asleep is not only bad counterplay, but felt bad to do as a survivor.
Average Freddy match was him putting Survivors to sleep, chase them off gens and kick a few pallets, then find another Survivor to put to sleep before returning to the previous Survivor the moment one of them wakes up, rinse & repeat. Now combined that with all the slowdown perks we currently have in the game, Freddy is legit going to become Forever Freddy 2.0
No amount of rose colored glass talk is gonna change the overall disdain i have towards old freddy or just about every aspect of old dbd in general throughout the 8 years that i've played this game, i firmly believe there is nothing worth saving about old freddy and if he's ever brought back, he will be the only killer i will refuse to play against. He's also most likely gonna be complained about just as much as he was in the past before he got reworked.
Post edited by Smoe on2 -
Slugging and stalling matches with his slowdown was the strategy most freddy players used because it was the most effective, i know because i have played as and against all versions of freddy throughout dbd's lifespan.
So have I. And while I cannot deny that I've seen this strategy before, in my experience it was neither the most prominent nor the most effective. Of course, it is entirely possible that our experiences just happened to be that different, but this is something to think about.
A survivor failing a skill check during the transition would be fixed by my proposal, and if they make it to a pallet there are ways around that. Mindgames during the transition were really sun to do, and of the gimmicks you could learn if you played him enough. I loved it.
As for the high level of play, it depends on what we're talking about. The Elite Squads are so rare that they don't even matter, and I've seen plenty of Old Freddy players win high ranked games. Not every single time obviously, and not as effortlessly as Nurse or Spirit. But it was possible. Players make mistakes all the time.
If we went by your proposal, you'd bring back all the elements from old freddy people hated and only adjust them while only keeping dream projection from his current kit, all of which i not only believe is a terrible idea, but i absolutely abhorre the very thought of having any semblance of his first iteration in the game again, sorry but no, it ain't it chief.
That is your opinion, which you absolutely have the right to share. I don't agree with it, but I respect it.
The slowdown was very much an issue, being forced to fail a skill check in order to wake up if all survivors was asleep is not only bad counterplay, but felt bad to do as a survivor.
Average Freddy match would be him putting Survivors to sleep, chase them off gens and kick a few pallets, then find another Survivor to put to sleep before returning to the previous Survivor the moment one of them wakes up, rinse & repeat. Now combined that with all the slowdown perks we currently have in the game, Freddy is legit going to become Forever Freddy 2.0
That I disagree with. Unfortunately it is literally impossible to get footage to back up my argument, as we're discussing a scenario that has yet to happen, but I really don't think the combined slowdown will be oppressive. Waking up, either by a filed skill check or by another survivor helping ya will remove half of it, and the other half I presume is based of perks like Pain Res and Pop.
That is the current meta, there is no telling what it will be by the time Freddy gets changed. And besides, I've told ya the slowdown numbers were up for discussion. I'll keep my proposal the way it is, for now, but there is room for debate.
No amount of rose colored glass talk is gonna change the overall disdain i have had towards old freddy or just about every aspect of old dbd in general throughout the 8 years that i've played this game, i firmly believe there is nothing worth saving about old freddy and if he's ever brought back, he will be the only killer i will refuse to play against. He's also most likely gonna be complained about just as much as he was in the past before he got reworked.
Please, don't ever talk about "rose colored glass" to me. Everything I use to back up my arguments is not based on memory alone: I'm constantly viewing and reviewing Old DBD footage and information, to make sure I say things as accurately as possible.
But alas, all of this is... pointless, isn't it? You've made your stance on the matter quite clear, and so have I. I won't be able to convince you that Old Freddy was better for the game, just like you will never be able to convince me that he was not. This is as far as we will get.
However, let me make a small request: if, by some miracle anything resembling my proposal makes into the game (and that is one big "if"), give the killer one chance. Just one.
You won't regret it, I promise.
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Heres one that many might not remember: OG Legions buff in 2019.
At this point every one knew and hated Legion, but before they got their mini rework they wanted to try and make the current Legion better at what they were meant to be, which was a killer bouncing between multiple Survivors to then deal the final blow.
So what did they do? They made the Deep Wounds timer go from 30 seconds to 20 seconds. This meant instead of 4 hits to down, it only took 3. The change was made to encourage Survivors to heal more, which made them a bit more viable at spreading pressure and add even more slowdown.
But as we all know, Legion had already built themselves a reputation of being the killer who says ######### you to a particular Survivor if they wanted to, and this change only made this easier. Their strongest add on combo as well (Franks Mixtape and Stab Wound Studies) were made EVEN worst. Stab Wounds Studies reduced the Deep Wounds timer by 5 seconds, and Franks Mixtape reduced it by 15 seconds when stabbing a Survivor already affected by Deep Wounds. Meaning they could basically just 2 tap a Survivor who dared to stay injured. Basically the equivalent of reaching the 4th and 5th stab on current day Legion without all the hassle.
Luckily this change never made it outside of PTB
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there were a few changes they stepped back from making during ptb, but i don't know any other than mettle that made it live and got reverted back again. wish they were more open minded on such matters and admit they sometimes make bad decisions.
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