DbD's New Stealth Meta

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  • Coffeecrashing
    Coffeecrashing Member Posts: 3,407
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    There is a difference between hiding, and excessively hiding. Just like there is a difference between facecamping and proxy camping. And just like there is a difference between defending generators, and aggressively defending a 3 gen the entire game.

  • Spare_Them_Mori_Me
    Spare_Them_Mori_Me Member Posts: 1,328
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    Agreed. Wont catch me debating that. I'm stating your weaponizing of "Tunneling, camping, 3 genning, and slugging' is the sole reason the topic of this thread is happening. Killers are perpetuating what OP is talking about in this thread.

    There is a time for tunneling, camping, etc. There is. Its when this is solely what the killer does from the start that makes it disagreeable. Tunneling at 5 gens is not the same as tunneling when its clear the Survivors are outpacing you. Im sure we agree on these points, yes?

    Anyway, I hope you get where Im coming from. If not, I think I'll bow out. Its either hopeless or you choose not to state your understanding.

  • Spare_Them_Mori_Me
    Spare_Them_Mori_Me Member Posts: 1,328
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    Hard take, but I feel Sole Survivor is more powerful than Distortion in most matchups. But I feel ya. Once I read distortion when I first started playing, I couldn't believe it wasn't very popular.

  • Coffeecrashing
    Coffeecrashing Member Posts: 3,407
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    No. We can’t agree on that. There isn’t an arbitrary number of generators that need to be completed, before the killer can tunnel, nor should there be. Especially because zero of these arbitrary rules are placed on the survivor side.

    For real, what rules do survivors follow, for the sake of consideration of the killer’s fun, that can actively lower their chances of escaping? Killers are being demanded to make poor game decisions, that can lower their chances of winning the game, for the sake of survivor fun, yet at the same time, there’s zero of these rules for survivors.

  • Xxjwaynexx
    Xxjwaynexx Member Posts: 286
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    Even with it being 4v1 I think their main complaint with tunneling at 5 gens is that unless the killer is as equally bad as the first survivor tunneled it's virtually impossible to complete all the gens.

    The point is that at five gens the need to sweat isn't necessary really and if you can't loop like ayrun it's super unfun, but it is what efficiently wins games as long as it's based off of kills and not individual hooks. In a game that's pvp there's always gonna be an aspect thats not fun one side or the other, I mean the point of PVP is to beat the opponent everytime right. So I think it comes with the territory.

    As far as survivor rules they don't have a lot to interact with outside of holding M1 on a gen and the fact that they aren't the power role. They don't have rules because the killer can control what the only objective they have (gens) from the beginning. Its not like breaking every three gen is inevitable, most smart killers load in and the first thing they do is find the 3gen setup some hard defend it others proxy defend it.

    Poor decisions is a little bit of a logical fallacy. For instances just a few examples:

    If they unhook Nancy and she uses her bt to bodyblock for the unhooker that's not tunneling.

    If I hook Dwight beside a highly progressed gen he gets unhooked and immediately hops on that gen, not tunneling.

    If I let your teammates get the safe unhook and they dip out on you instead of staying for chase and I circle the map and find you again not tunneling.

    If someone is expecting the killer to just drop any of these scenarios then idk what to say it's a lost cause. It'd be like 99'ing the last Gen then since the killer is super close the whole team completely negates it to work on another gen with 0 progress and never comes back to that same gen because it's tunneling until the killer kicks it. Asinine, I know.

  • Coffeecrashing
    Coffeecrashing Member Posts: 3,407
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    No. The point is that we have a major double standard, where killers are expected to make poor game decisions, that actively lower their chances of winning…… but expect absolute zero from survivors in return.

    And yes, there is a reason to tunnel at 5 generators, and that’s the fact that it’s effective. Killers aren’t doing it to spite survivors, they’re doing it to help win a PvP game. And if killers are expected to make poor game decisions, then survivors should also be expected to make poor game decisions.

  • Trust_me_Im_a_Doctor
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    There are multiple, multiple, multiple ways around this. The point of changing meta is so that the game doesn't get stagnant.

    Survivors were strong at chases, self healing, and chasing again so killers used perks and strategies to counter healing, pallets and flashlights. Then they nerfed self healing.

    That, combined with new, strong killers and killer perks tipped the scales. Because chases are shorter for survivors and getting injured is riskier and, let's face it, more likely, they're new goal is to not be put in those situations in the first place.

    I'll agree the meta has changed but I disagree that it's an issue. If you can't find survivors, track them by other means. Change your meta. Blood tracking perks and add-ons, spies in the shadows, thrilling tremors, surveillance, wraith's scratchmark perk name I forgot, give them difficult skill checks, use killers like trapper or knight who can damage without seeing survivors, any perks that can create loud noise events or highlight generators should be your new playstyle if you are having trouble against Stealth.

    I've been playing since year 2. I started playing as killer right after spirit first came out. Then the games got so stressful that, because of my anxiety disorder, it was literally bad for my health. I switched to survivor and my playstyle has been Stealth until teammates need me. I have been running distortion, calm spirit and ironwill almost this entire time because I was never ood at chases and never will be. But as a solo player 90% of the time, let me tell you that them not helping teammates is on them not the meta.

    As a solo survivor, use kindred, aftercare, boon healing or yoichi's perk to let other survivors see your aura. You can use bond to see others. You can use the key add-ons to see survivors. You can use maps to create a giant pillar that acts like the screaming sun from Rick and Marty. There are ways to play, adapt, overcome. Sorry about the rant. I've been a Stealth main for years and just was able to pick killer back up, op hit home lol

  • mizark3
    mizark3 Member Posts: 1,876
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    The tiles that spawn on the space maps include the normal L-Ts, Short and Long wall JGs, 4 lanes, the new pseudo short/long wall JG (that spawns both on autohaven and macmillan as well), but they also have the bizarre worthless loops diluting the spawning pool. I think I've seen a 4 lane where the pallet and window are on the same side. Another is similar to the Ormond maze tile with a middle window on the south and the pallet on the east or west, but they deleted the maze wall portion of the middle that made the tile playable for Surv. They also have a bunch of weird tree branches and hooked walls (not actual hook hook, just something to catch someone running around it), so people get caught on the walls all the time even when looking ahead of them.

    The middle Nostromo pallet may give a rotation or two to buy time, like all filler pallets, but the value for Survivor comes from standing and faking a drop for another rotation to buy more time. That isn't any stronger than any other filler pallet in the game. I will say most people don't have the timing down yet, as you are supposed to run the center console then the small wall when you won't make another rotation, so most people get hit greeding another loop around the center console or don't risk anything and insta-drop it. Again though, most my soloq Survs insta-drop it and the Killer simply walks around and hits them before they can reach anything.

  • ad19970
    ad19970 Member Posts: 6,347
    edited December 2023
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    I don't know, both as playing killer and survivor I haven't really seen any problem with most of the loops and tiles on those maps. Good survivors can still make use of a lot of these tiles. But killers definitely do have fair counterplay at more of the tiles, it's not all about getting the pallet dropped and then having to break pallets. Which is a good thing because of how fast gens can be repaired.

    We need more maps like the new ones, or the newly added macmillan maps for example, if you ask me. As they actually allow for more counterplay on the killers side.

    I do agree that random geometry obstructing the paths of survivors is frustrating and shouldn't be in the game.

  • Xxjwaynexx
    Xxjwaynexx Member Posts: 286
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    Bro I'm on your side lol, as I mention that tunneling at 5 gens is the most effective way to win, however FOR me it isn't necessary or meaningful at five gens. I know I can beat my son at every sport we play but the wins aren't meaningful. If tunneling at 5 gens makes you feel good and accomplished then by all means do it I'm a killer main 99% so I understand the reason I was just answering your questions from a survivors perspective which I have just started to dabble in. I like to make the snowball comebacks to see precisely how good my skills are.

    Ps not tunneling at 5 gens isn't poor decisions by the way, when I mained hag the game didn't even start for me until at least one and some times 2 gens pop, so I could carefully make my web.

  • NerfedFreddy
    NerfedFreddy Member Posts: 394
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    Sounds like something on survivors' side should be nerfed again because killer players' experience isn't 100% comfortable and convenient

  • Nazzzak
    Nazzzak Member Posts: 4,966
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    I'm sure the people who play with a stealth build aren't doing it to spite anyone. They're doing it because they've found it effective and it helps them win.

  • dknb
    dknb Member Posts: 139
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    I was start using Distortion because of many Killers using Nowhere to hide

  • WaveyTrey
    WaveyTrey Member Posts: 643
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    I made a Chucky lose on Haddonfield. Where there’s a gen behind Laurie‘s house. Aim the pebble at the gen from up above on the rooftop in the next building over. The killer comes to check on the gen, and you’re out of their line of sight. If you hide in the shadow, and have proper clothing, they won’t see you on the roof. If you think they will just sneak back inside the building.

    The gen is not worked on so the killers can’t kick it to trigger Nowhere to Hide. You continue to accumulate more pebbles in their TR as the killer looks everywhere but inside the building across!

  • LordGlint
    LordGlint Member Posts: 8,045
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    I feel like the problem is EXCESSIVE hiding. In the current iteration of distortion, a survivor hiding behind a rock all game gets the same use as a survivor doing things that help the team escape. The only change I think that should be made is to shift away from a passive token gain. Let the gen jocky and team healer get tokens, rather than the guy doing literally nothing but the bare minimum to avoid AFK crows.

  • sulaiman
    sulaiman Member Posts: 3,214
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    Well, i dont understand the issue. Look at some of the threads about tunneling and camping in the past few months. In a lot of them, killers gave a simple advise "dont go down". Now survivors try to do exactly that, and now its an issue instead of a countermeassure?

  • Volcz
    Volcz Member Posts: 1,126
    edited December 2023
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    Depends.

    If your stealth is costing the team, ie you're doing very little for the team, haven't been hooked once, barely doing any gens, opening chests and doing dull totems, then yea. I probably will think you're an awfui teammate and its basically a 1v3, not 4.

    However, if you're using the stealth in key moments of the match and still trying to play/get things done as a team, I see no problem with it. There's also more factors to this like:

    • How long are the teammates lasting in chase on average? Are they good in chase or bad?
    • Are your teammates running the killer to generators that are actively being worked on?
    • Are your teammates actually trying to win or are they more interested in point farming ie dive bombing?

    There's a lot of things that happen in a match that aren't the fault of the stealthy player. If I haven't been hooked once or even chased, I'm expected to be on gens for the team or try to force a chase (which can obviously be ignored). However, if your team is basically snowballing the match for the killer; the problem is not on your end but your teammates who are making mistakes or doing dumb things.

    I also don't automatically assume someone is a 'stealthy selfish' player based on perks they bring. I used to run Sole Survivor + Wake Up together and still played my best to win as a team, get as many people out, etc. But you'd assume just based on those 2 perks that I don't care about my team and only want to escape myself. Which isn't true.

    I figure, let people play how they want. It can't really be policed, even though its frustrating at times.

  • mizark3
    mizark3 Member Posts: 1,876
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    Agree to disagree on new maps/tiles in general. (Although I would agree more with you if you said 'efficient' Survivors instead of 'good', as soloq is nearly never 'efficient' even if there are individually 'good' players.)

    I also disagree on gen speed in general, as leveraging pressure is the main way to make gens slow down. The Killer's skill in chase and setting up a snowball is directly opposed with the Survivor's skill in awareness(for stealth Killers)/chase and reacting to snowball setups (healing injuries instead of pumping gens, leaving to rescue for hooks earlier for the time needed for stealth if need be, breaking a potential 3 gen early, and so on). 1 person on hook provides 75% gen slowdown (hooked->healed, unhook->heal, chased, working gen). Being skilled in micro/macro provides 2.5x Pentimento, and that's arguably the best slowdown in the game.

  • Mr_K
    Mr_K Member Posts: 9,130
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    The only stealth I've seen is the last two survivors hiding around the map waiting on the other to get caught.

  • ad19970
    ad19970 Member Posts: 6,347
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    Well I play a lot of Singu, gens on stronger killers are of course not as much of a deal. But in my experience, well organized survivors can definitely pump out gens very quickly. It's true that a hooked survivor slows the game down noticeably, but the time to unhook a survivor and get them healed is often shorter than the time it takes for a killer to find a survivor, down them, and then also hook them.

    I've also have had my fair share of solo games with efficient survivors if you ask me. But I get that solo queue can also be quite the challenge sometimes.