http://dbd.game/killswitch
Onryo rework needs to be largely reverted
Yesterday I played a lot of Onryo. I won every game easily. All it takes is one weak link in the survivor team, who doesn't manage their tapes well, and you get an easy early condemn kill. There is no skill at all in spreading condemn, you just teleport to any TV on the map. Before, you actually needed to zone a survivor into an area with a TV during the chase, as well as strategically hook a survivor next to a TV. It took skill, and it was fun. Now none of these matter.
There is another huge problem as well: **hooking** as Onryo currently is a **bad idea**. If you hook, you shoot yourself in the foot.
This is why - if you do not hook anyone, you don't have to deal with *any* of these:
- you don't risk flashlight/flashbang/etc. saves, hook sabos, breakout, boil over, pallet saves, wiggling out
- you don't waste time picking up, carrying and hooking, instead you spread more condemn and/or go after someone with a tape, as well as pressure people off gens
- you *nullify* ALL of these survivor perks: We'll Make It, Off the Record, Kindred, Deliverance, Reassurance, Background Player, Decisive Strike, Dead Hard, Second Wind, Borrowed Time, Boil Over, Flip-Flop, Breakout, Blood Rush, Saboteur, Power Struggle, Resurgence, Slippery Meat, Breakdown, Babysitter and Camaraderie.
- =====> You make **21 survivor perks useless** !!
There is no incentive ever for an Onryo to hook anyone. Unless you want to make your game harder.
This is why I want you to revert Onryo to what she was - you only condemn those around the TV you teleport to, so you can't just easily eliminate the weakest link, no matter how close to or far from you they are during the match. You actually have to plan and use your skills.
With this, you also need to make old Onryo's TV cooldowns shorter, and not depend on an (iridescent) addon.
Finally, to address the problem where hooking is useless and a detriment to the Onryo, as well as negates 21 survivor perks completley, I would reward hooking:
-> either hooking turns 1 or more TVs instantly back on, or it lessens the cooldown on the currently OFF TVs. Good Onryos will never hook, unless hooking helps their power (cooldown).
Thank you for reading.
Comments
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funny. i did say that survivors would complain about a viable mori killer pre-rework. I guess i was right in the end. I think otz said she was C-tier killer. Before her changes, limited TV radius meant that you need slug people next to TV's, let people pick up the survivor and TP onto two survivors. survivor said this was unfun strategy.
I would say that current onryo has less reasons to slug then previous one. I rarely slug with current onryo. there is no reason too slug.
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I agree that there are less reasons to slug than with previous Onryo, but nonetheless there is still no reason not to slug, as I wrote in my post. If you hook, you potentially activate perks like dead hard or off the record that will harm you later in chase, and you can avoid them by slugging. If you go for condemn kills, then hook kills feel superfluous. Unnecessary effort. (yes, you gain bloodpoints by hooking, but I feel like people care much more about kills than a bit extra BP)
I've seen people complain about Onryos just slugging and not hooking. I've also seen a strong Onryo main streamer just slug and not hook. Now I understand why. Other killers have to hook because they have no other means of killing survivors. Onryo can slug and spread more condemn, and once it's built up enough, they can kill.
I feel it's noble that you personally don't slug with Onryo, but that won't stop other people. Condemn killing is very straightforward, hooking just adds unnecessary complication to the otherwise elegant simplicity.
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Ehhhh pyramid head pretty much denies the majority of survivor builds as well and he does it even worse lol
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I also feel like his caging should not bypass perks. Caging itself saves a lot of time, you don't have to waste time picking up, carrying and hooking, as well as risk sabo plays, taking hits etc. And the torment, besides the caging, allows for the mini-mori. That's already a great advantage.
Cages not applying hook perks only makes the tunneling easier.
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Cages also prevent PH from using hook related perks (pain res, BBQ, flood of rage) so that's also detrimental for him. I guess it's a fair trade : no risk taken when caging, but no perk value either.
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Revert all the changes, but keep the Ring Drawing nerf and the reduced TV cool-downs so she isn't so Iri-tape add-on reliant. Buff her proximity condemn a bit more to like 20 meters or maybe 1.5 stacks when within range and she would be fine. She would be capable of good mobility all around while also able to deal out condemned when played skillfully.
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Wasn't she considered weak on the ptb of her rework? I feel like they just overbuffed her way too much from the ptb to live.
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onryo ability is to cheat hook-states and provide alternative condition to winning. it is not so much that there is no reason to hook, rather that slugging is easier than hooking because you don't care about slugging nor hook-states itself. only condemn meter matters. Before, slugging with ring drawing and 16 meter TV were connected to condemn. now they're not connected at all. It is just that if survivor do not heal but you still hit them to break their tape, they end up slugged because of no healing. In many ways survivors not healing in fact hurt Onryo because a survivor on floor does not build condemn. If you purposely slug yourself by not healing, you protect yourself indirectly from condemn stacks.
it is very similar myer's tombstone add-on where you don't care too much about hooking or slugging, just build-up evil within 3 to 99% then pop instant-kill -> death. It is just that his play-style doesn't even revolve around hitting people. it is pure stalking. Onryo has to hit people to break the tape and mori is debuff-based instead of buff.
I particular hook people in case survivors jump into lockers at around 4 condemn stacks because jumping into a locker prevents you from breaking the tape so you don't gain +2 condemn stacks but barely anyone does that. I just hook as preemptive measure to counter-play. More often than not, I only end up mori's survivors.
I don't really see them reverting anything, more so I would see them nerfing killer like they typically do when any killer is complained about by the survivors/killer over-performing by whatever metric conclude that.
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I would be fine with it if it can also activate some of perks cause caging also denies several perks on PH like pop,NWO, or pretty much any perk that requires hooking a survivor
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survivors when bhvr actually make a weak killer's ability useful. literally the only thing i read from these posts are survivors wanting her reverted back to her weak state
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They are reworking her condemned next year hope she can be more bearable to go agaonat but the problem was Ring Drawing and the slug condemned cobo with it. I think they needed to adjust that add on only but will see how that rework goes.
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I wrote in my post that I played as her. This whole post has spawned mostly from me playing as her, not against her. And it's not that we want her to be reverted to state where she depended on an iri addon. We want her to be both more fun for survivors (incentives to hook, rather than just slug, survivors hate being slugged non-stop;; strategical condemning, rather than map-wide), and more fun to play as (strategical condemning that requires planning and skill).
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As an Onryo main I'm 100% with you. Condemn needs to take skill again but they shouldn't go completely back to pre-rework where the TV times are so long that you pretty much have to run Iri-tape. I think there is just a portion of new Onryo players that enjoy the easy soloq wins and don't want to spend the time to become skilled at Onryo in her old form, even though pre-rework Onryo was super fun and rewarding compared to this horrible rework.
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so your solution is to revert her back to her weak state. her weak state is fun for survivors, not killers (unless its the ones playing for the sole purpose of making survivor games enjoyable). Dont revert her back to ass. nerf her condem a bit and buff her chase. shes a hit and run killer because her chase is trash. problem solved.
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Yes, that's exactly what I'm talking about 🙂
Onryo in her current state doesn't really need planning or skill, whereas I enjoyed the old Onryo. I wasn't really that good with her and didn't use Iri tape, but I loved zoning survivors into areas with TVs during chases. It felt very rewarding and skill based.
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No, that's not what I want. I want them to revert her parts that made her skill based and interesting to play as. Having to rely on an iri addon was lame and made her weak without it. I do not want that back. TV cooldowns need to be smaller than with old Onryo, but I do think that her condemning mechanic should be like before - condeming only locally, not globally map-wide.
And sure, I'd love her chase to be buffed as well. But condemning is unique and shouldn't be neglected.
Honestly, what I want from Onryo is for her to be fun for both sides. I remember some of old Onryo's matches where I versed her and she used the iri-tape addon (because it was a necessity for making condeming viable). When I versed a good Onryo, the matches were FUN for me. Oh my god, I loved the thrill. "Will I make it to the TV before she catches me"? Will my teammates? God, I loved that. And in the matches I remember, there wasn't even excessive slugging. Onryos played skillfully. I'm sure they enjoyed it as much as I did.
That's what I want. Onryo players to have fun zoning survivors, using skill to push survivors into areas with TVs, plan and spread condemn strategically, instead of just teleporting to any TV mindlessly, and condemning everyone on the map (unless they're carrying a TV).
Man, I want Onryo to be fun so baddddd. For both sides. Current Onryo sucks for both sides (unless the killer wants an easy win). Old Onryo with certain adjustments would be peak of excitement to both play and face. 😊
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condeming through local was trash due to how easy it was to get rid of all of it. it was effectively useless unless youre playing in a condem playstyle
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A ability that lets you take survivors out of the game without ever hooking them should be challenging to pull off. Of course it makes sense that it is only going to be a threat for those who lean into it with a condemn playstyle. We saw what happened when they tried to make condemn easy to use with any playstyle with the current rework. I don't know if you noticed but its simply awful. Its easy wins for much less fun and enjoyment.
Condemn should take skill and effort to build up. I don't think they need to use the same exact old model though. i think buffing the range of which condemn is gained upon Projection would be a nice buff. That or increasing the stacks when within rage. If you are concerned it is too easy to remove then why not have it make fully condemn survivors exposed so they can't unload tapes in the killers face.
There are many simple solutions to make condemn a viable but balanced and rewarding threat by making use of her old kit.
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her condem didnt take skill. it was teleport near a survivor and hope the survivors are either giving up or too dumb to get rid of the condem. and even then it was so fast survivors can simply body block the person so they can cleanse. it was litteraly impossible to get serious survivors condemed. no matter how much "skill" you had. you had to dedicate an entire build do it.
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Before her rework, I watched a certain streamer who played her for condemn, but they also hooked people. They played against good teams, and the matches were tense. The streamer planned where to hook survivors (near TVs), zoned people into areas with TVs during chases. When someone picked up a tape, the streamer thought about where the tape could have been picked up, and which TV the survivor was going to. Then race to the TV, and trying to down the survivor before the tape was inserted. Not to mention that if you teleported to a TV with no-one around it, you wasted your teleport, and got no condemn progress.
There were so many fun things about it. Strategies, planning, paying attention to where survivors were and what they were doing with tapes, TVs. There were problems like you mentioned, yes, but with proper adjustments, BHVR could make it feel much better. The biggest problem being the TV cooldowns, and the need for the iridescent tape addon.
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