I won't blame Otzdarva if he leaves Dead by Daylight and as Fog Whisperer
This AMA really shown your true colors to the community. Well done, BHVR. Pretty good job so far.
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You know you effed up when Otz of all people is feeling this way. Well, done, Behavior
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He was harsh in a most reasonable way, as he usually does when he's frustrated af.
Pointing out what he called "lack of ambition" for their game several times is really telling.
Post edited by JPLongstreet on30 -
He has a vid up. Very simply BHVR seems to have no ambitions or passion for this game anymore.
AMA any game play Qs are the pitiful "on our radar" "no plans" blah, blah, blah super vague answers. Any Qs about skins or monetization had better thought out answers from them.
These AMA are doing far more harm for BHVR with their community than it helping them.
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I have already uninstalled dbd. otz is the reason why I started playing this game in the first place otherwise I wouldn't touch it with a ten foot pole if it wasn't for him but this video just hit the final nail to the coffin for me for this game.
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That is the video he is talking about, he announced that he is quitting several types of content. Lack of QoL, features etc.
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Honestly, Otz has been unwatchable recently.
The responses to the Q&A weren't nearly as bad as he's making out.
MANY of the things he has complained about in the past have in fact been changed not that long after. He makes it sound like the devs never listen, which is simply not true.
Also worth bearing in mind that a lot of his ideas aren't really that great, which might be why they aren't implemented.
Post edited by Rizzo on48 -
Honestly, I don't like Otz's content, but what is important here is the response.
The overall feedback regarding the latest AMA is negative, and we all can see why. While there was one tiny little thing I was happy to read, everything else wasn't great.
I have disagreed with 99% of changes BHVR has implemented into this game since July of 2019, and it seems many in the community are sharing this kind of frustration.
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Really sad to see, especially when it's coming from a Fog Whisperer. Just shows how powerless they are to improving DBD which is just silly. Most of his takes are accurate and reflect a majorities opinion but we need to fight here for BHVR to fix the stupidest things that are constantly shared online to no avail. Like what's even the point of providing innovative feedback if they just note it and forget about it.
Post edited by Rizzo on6 -
I mean he probably has what like 15k hours atp? I wouldn't blame him if he finally burned out. I think it would be hard to enjoy any game for that long.
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They do them to make it look like they care.
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They fail horribly lmao... Like at least copy and paste the same answers onto different questions, why only answer so little?
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They were tragic. Literally. I would like you to tell me any noteworthy things they have stated in that entire AMA that would be of interest to me. They don't listen until the forums flood, Twitter was bursting with constructive criticism each time there was a outlying problem but that was ignored completely. Only when the forums took action were they forced to act upon it/suddenly wake up. Even then they didn't sometimes, prime example being MfT. His ideas weren't always the best, but it allowed people to adapt his ideas and mold it into something better/more effective. This reply you provided is just a "I hate Otz" rant backed up by opinions stated as facts.
Post edited by Rizzo on3 -
But to even care that much about something you love and have enjoyed for years and see that problems that he sees and experiences whenever he plays bluntly met working in it for the next few "years". It makes it very hard to get excited about the future prospects of dbd.
Post edited by Rizzo on5 -
Honestly the community is not the best at asking questions I wish they would do more developer updates instead so they can actually talk about things they're allowed to.
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Whats the point of doing AMA when they know full well they can't answer many if not most of the questions that will come inevitably. They should just make more frequent forum/blog posts instead.
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The responses to the AMA were worse.
He is giving them more credit than I would.
Post edited by Rizzo on17 -
I have my own thoughts on the Fog Whisperer program, but it has seemed like they're all just store fronts & marketing for years now.
Part of Otz's frustration clearly comes from believing his feedback & suggestions have had little to no effect for a while now. I remember Tru saying the same years ago, back when he still was a Whisperer.
It boils down to thinking maybe you're making a difference and then getting that bitter disappointment feeling when you become sure you don't, and maybe never did.
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literally as this thread progresses, watching a former fog-whisperer talking about what it was like to quit dead by daylight.
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I just saw his video.
I think at some point enough is enough. The devs are to blame for some weird decisions sometime, but there are problems, where I wholeheartedly understand their responses. There is no simple solution to survivors giving up. There is no fast wonder to make soloq more in line with swf.
But if we look at how the game has developed over the years and how much better it got, I do have to say:
Some people are overreacting.
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I have no issue with Otz (full disclosure, I prefer to watch Niina. Sorry not sorry) and whatever he chooses to do, I respect that. I feel like whenever i see him on Twitch he's playing a different game anyway and only pops into DBD for PTB and new chapter releases. So if he's considering quitting (I havent watch his video) it's a long time coming imo.
Having said that, I do think that the Reddit AMAs aren't having the effect the devs think they are. It's hardly worth anyone's time when they're telling us nothing of any interest. And their blase response to solo queue tells me they are completely out of touch with the player base. It honestly came off to me as though solo queue issues have hardly crossed their mind. I'd prefer to have hope that they're considering *something* as opposed to knowing they seemingly don't care, or at the very least have washed their hands of any options.
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Sadly few people actually use the forums. Not the best reputation you know? I understand that they don't want to use the forum for something like that.
Popular social media sites work better for that. Furthermore, people like to just follow the gospel of their favourite content creator. They have all the rights to do that. But they should also be ready to face other perspectives. This is where I think this forum is strong. Gaining multiple perspectives on a variety of topics.
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They do care though.
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For his complaint about getting better perks that aren't behind a paid dlc character I dont find too big of a deal. Lately my goto perks are bond, kindred calm spirit and botany, (before UW it was open handed from ace which is easily replaceable with other meta perks like any means, pebble or an actual exhaustion perk)
Most of his other frustrations seem to stem from not really knowing where they are stuck due to technical limitations. Since the game was built in 2016 and some stuff may need big changes to actual implement and none of that is really evident from our perspective.
Bhvr should have him sign an NDA and have a couple of meetings with him to looop him in, when new DLCs drop he pulls 10-20k viewers, it is in their best interest to you know listen to the biggest influencer to their game, I mean most of what he is saying is actually pretty level headed and makes sense for the total game. Its not like other people complaining about small things that only effects a very small handful of players
Post edited by Rizzo on0 -
Competition pushes people to do better and improve. The same goes for companies. No competition leads to stagnancy and complacency.
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the blogs would be shared in all social medias, including reddit.
they don't lose anything by doing those.
and they already do blog posts for updates. what would be changed beyond the frequency?
they can just post somewhere else aswell... make the post on reddit, twitter, instagram, orkut... idc... just do them.
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Sadly few people actually use the forums. Not the best reputation you know? I understand that they don't want to use the forum for something like that.
Well... the Forums are the official channel connecting us to the devs.
Feedback from here definitely should take priority over other lines of communication.
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Disagree with that last line. Radiant is correct - if you hang out in other DBD online circles, you'll know the reputation this forum has. Alot of players avoid it like the plague, and honestly sometimes I read posts here and understand why they do. While it's definitely the easiest place for the devs to get a finger on the pulse of the playerbase, the fact that the devs have an increased presence over on Reddit (I'm pretty sure they've taken over the main sub there in recent months, or at least partially) suggests they're well aware that it's not in their best interest to prioritise forum feedback. At least not anymore.
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But the "bad feedback" can be filtered.
There are some genuinely excellent ideas here, and this is the official channel. Take away the few bad eggs here and there, and you find a goldmine.
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BHVR doesn't deserve this success considering how bad they are treating playerbase.
Would you believe BHVR employees are more than 1200?
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Yeah, I completely agree. I mean even I believed that Fog Whisperer's had this huge impact because it's such a selective system and what not. I once went against a Fog Whisperer as a Wraith and they were just mad the entire time that I was simply playing the killer. Might've been having a bad day, but that definitely opened my eyes a bit more that it's just about views.
I can definitely understand where he's coming from and I respect his effort to strive for that position. BHVR just listens to the community every once in a while and then go radio silent. It's a never-ending cycle and the reason why this forum is so full of feedback, we hope they'll acknowledge stuff other than bug reports.
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That's what I'm saying. Instead of 50 answers of "we have no plans for that currently" or "we have nothing to share at this time" they should just do a 20 to 25 minute dev stream with a presentation of 2 or 3 things they can actually show us. Because as in these AMAs are largely pointless yeah.
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BHVR doesnt have ability to handle this game.
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The community has spoken. Seems like the devs don't love their own game... It's sad. Improvements need to come faster. Innovation, quality of life, content, EVERYTHING.
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To be fair I would say this AMA has had slightly more concrete answers than most video game AMAs. There were quite a few firm 'No's which is quite rare for this sort of thing. Overall though, it was still fairly pointless because it's clear they can't talk about most things and anything they CAN talk about are things they already have announced or could just announce in a developer update.
The reason why the game has stagnated though is simply that there isn't any competition. Every single asym game that comes out ends up dying, or at best remaining very small. Even TCM, which had massive amounts of hype, isn't doing that well and will likely close down in the next couple years. With no other games to worry about, BHVR can afford to not make any innovative changes because that's 'safe'. People will continue to play DBD even with all of it's problems because where else are they gonna go?
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oh god! otz said it. This is bad for behavior because the community rarely go against this guy.
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He has usually on the range of about 5k viewers (twice more for special events). There are millions of DbD players.
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He gets most of his views from DbD. His viewership goes down to a couple of thousands when he is doing anything else.
The DbD streamers I know who have stopped DbD have either lost most of their viewers (and revenue) or have come back.
I rarely watch streamers and Otzdarva even less. Yet I've noticed he was starting to be pretty negative these last few weeks/months. I though his "brand" was to be always positive.
I'm not saying the answers from BHVR weren't disappointing mind you. I'm not a fog whisperer though.
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I would love to see this being true. I feel that it's not...
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Sounds great.
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He probably just needs a break. The devs don’t always make the best decisions, but I do believe that they care about this game. Just look at how much it has improved over the years. I wish we could get some changes faster but it is what it is. I still love this game and can’t stop playing since Chucky was added.
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I agree they absolutely care about the game but I feel the main thing everyone can consistently agree on is how long it takes them to make certain changes.
Game has absolutely improved over the years and is probably in one of the better states it's ever been - Just wish the updates came a little quicker. Kind of felt like this became an issue when console was introduced due to certification process but again I don't really have a key way to pinpoint. I remember early DBD from 2016 - 2017 they updated at random sometimes and it was for the better with QoL stuff. Sometimes BHVR just tried things and I feel that helped a lot.
Maybe it's just nostalgia speaking for me but either way - The slow pace is what I feel everyone wants to see change. It's more our lack of understanding on why things take so long. Like how do certain changes reach the pipeline and how long did it take them to get there.
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They don’t show it. If they did, they would give real information.
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People always love to focus on the negatives and forget anything positive immediately..
Otz needs to take a break, he is clearly burnt out of DbD and shouldn’t lash out like certain other content creators did. And of course fog whisperers are not game designers and shouldn’t be expected to somehow have more say in what should be changed in which way - as any one in the community their views are heavily biased (even when I agree Otz isnt the worst contender here - he is still a content creator above anything else).
expecting innovation and the biggest changes announced in a simple dev ama on Reddit when we just got a roadmap (with plenty changes announced!) for the next couple months is not reasonable. The questions were way too focused on new content or balance changes etc instead of actual background interests or anything. And even then we got some good info - if not as much as people hoped for.
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Of course they show it.
They show how much they care about the game and its playerbase. The have a forum where people like you and me can talk with moderators and others, interested and invested into the game.
They provide PTB's where players can test upcoming changes and provide or discuss feedback.
They come up with fun and creative events for the players to mess around with.
They create more cosmetics for characters that got left out a lot over the last years.
They go back on certain changes because of peoples feedback.
Boiling everything down to certain events and leaving out everything else that happened and is still happening, is just shortsighted in my honest opinion.
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I've watched a few of his streams recently and he does seem pretty burned out by the game. I'm not saying the things he says don't have merit. He almost certainly knows this game better than I do. But when you're burned out, it's very easy to focus on the negatives and only the negatives, ignoring the positive changes that have come about for the game. I get that as players we might have different priorities to the Devs, but at the end of the day, this is still their game and their creation. And no creative person on earth wants to do what their audience wants them to do 100% of the time.
They'll have different ideas for the direction they want to take the game and I think as a community we don't always respect that. There's tons of stuff I'd like them to address or fix, but if the devs don't see those things as urgent or worth committing the resources to, then that's just the way it is. In an ideal world, they could spend a year addressing quality of life stuff and forget about adding new content or events, but they'd probably be hemorrhaging players before long because gamers will always need new content to wrestle back their attention from other games. BHVR can't win, it seems.
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I mean, nobody is stopping him. And most people would probably not care either.
I mean, who would stop playing DBD or anything when Otzdarva is not a Fog Whisperer anymore? Or would not play DBD anymore?
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Yeah. But that is why, my friend, I say the important thing here is not Otz and whatever he wants to do.
It is the response, the overall frustration the community is feeling right now.
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He's not wrong in saying that the ambition for QoL is very lacklustre. Not even joking with you, who in their right minds would say that adding something as small as being able to see teammate's loadouts would take LITERAL YEARS?
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I definitely didn't start playing dbd because of otz. Didn't even know who he was when I started at All Kill Chapter. And that definitely won't stop me playing if he decides to leave dbd tbh.
And why do we only focus on the negatives? He has made some positives that influenced their decisions before. Be it perks, medkits nerfed, and many others. I don't see why otz is selling himself short.
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Some of the answers were downright out of touch. Particularly their answer regarding solo. "Friends were together more than the average human" or something to that effect. Really? You think teamwork is the biggest issue in solo queue? Not the fact that one player in that lobby will go down instantly 3 times and the killer won't be able to down another survivor in that same lobby? That skill gap between teammates isn't the issue? It's...teamwork?
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