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Does anyone else feel that survivors objective speed is simply broken?
The amount of games that I have where I lose one or two gens by the time I get the first down is honestly just infuriating. And by the time I get the 2nd down, one or two more gens are popped.
Its so easy for survivors to genrush, all they have to do is hold M1 for a bit whilst the Killer is trying his hardest to get a down.
I simply dont think its fair that in a 4v1 game, the 4 players can finish 20% of their objective by popping a gen, yet the Killer only completes 8% of theirs when they hook a survivor.
Without running multiple gen defense perks or tunneling someone out at the start, the game simply does not feel winnable as a weaker Killer.
Comments
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Killers wanted this meta. They wanted every side objective survivors have to be nerfed: CoH, medkits, chase perks etc.
Now survivors have no reason to leave gens.
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Actually, killers have been complaining about gen speeds for years. Yet every time the devs went on and nerfed healing instead.
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How was nerfing med kits/chase perks a bad thing for Killers in regards to genspeed? Medkits now waste more time, thous survivors are longer away from gens, "nerfed" chase perks mean chases are faster and the Killer can defend gens... I genuenly dont understand your reasoning here
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Let's be real. Killers wanted nerfs for medkits and CoH but both of them made survivors leave gens which was free slowdown for killers.
But yeah, devs are doing some terrible decisions. They need to make side objectives worthful for survivors, if survivors have no reason to leave gens ofcourse games will be so fast.
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That's the point.
Survivor is blessing totem = They are not on gen.
Survivor is running blessed area and healing = They are not on gen.
Same goes for medkits. Survivor is healing = They are not on gen.
All of those free slowdown for killers. Because when survivor is wasting time with those side objectives, killer is chasing someone and some pallets are removing from game which means next chases will be faster.
But now, survivors are not using boon perks and they are doing gens even if they are injured. So gens are flying.
Devs can make gens 100 seconds and they will still fly. We need natural slowdown, another objective for survivors. That's the slowdown will make game healthier.
And nerfing chase perks = survivors are gonna use more gen speed perks = gens are even faster.
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Yes, since MMR change generators feel too fast.
My prediction is that in the next mid chapter they are going to make Grim Embrace meta.
It's the only gen perk getting an update, and it has the popular 4 token first hook system. So it encourages you to not tunnel for a reward. Problem is reward has always been too low. Also obsession aura reveal wouldn't have an effect if the 4th survivor you hook is the obsession.
So i am guessing they will increase the duration to either 80, 90 or 120. Then make it reveal all survivor auras.
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Side objects like Hex perks. That are so bad, no one bothers to go search totems anymore.
Boons are also terrible. I understand that the devs wanted to improve teamplay and not have everyone constantly self heal. But i think a better approach to the CoH nerf would have been to just reduce the self healing, but have the teammate healing buffed.
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Well basically now the survs dont waste time on healing,cleansing totems etc and just get fixed with glue to gens
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That's completely normal.
The first three gens are usually easy to pop. The last two are hard and That's perfectly fine.
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No, I don't think so.
Given the way this game works on a fundamental level, it does kinda make sense that the first generator or so will pop quite quickly. As killer, you can only occupy one survivor at once as the game starts, so the other three are all free to progress their objective until they're forced away by direct pressure (via the killer chasing them) or indirect pressure (the need to go for a save, deal with a killer power, or maybe cleanse a hex).
Once you get that down, though, your pressure starts mounting. You occupy one survivor by hooking them, a second by getting into a chase with them ASAP, and a third by forcing them to come away for the save. If you can keep that ball rolling with smart chasing and additional pressure from powers and perks, the remaining generators should pop much faster.
In the current state of the game, resorting to tunnelling someone out immediately and running multiple slowdown perks can shoot you in the foot more than help you. If you don't get those downs quickly, neither of those things will help you, because you're letting the other three survivors do generators unopposed. Instead of just slowdown, consider chase and info perks, to grease the wheels a little more easily.
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You cannot just count every Gen equal in your "math". The first 1-3 Gens are faster and the last Gen is most likely taking longer than the first 4 Gens combined.
As Killer it is logical that you lose Gens early. Survivors are the strongest at the start.
You can easily play a game as Killer, lose 2-3 Gens before your first down and then get a 4K without any more Gens completed.
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I agree and this is usually the case. The first 3 gens don't really have much meaning on how the game is going to go.
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It's just your perception. I have the same perception playing killer but when playing survivor, it flips. It's natural.
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CoH wasn't even a side objective. Being able to self heal at the speed of a normal heal was just busted and even with the 50% nerf to it before the SC nerf.
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Gens are already tedious and mind numbingly boring and killer main solutions are to make it even longer?
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There's really not much for us to do, my guy. What do you want us to do, stare at a wall and wait for you to come sacrifice us? Ahaha...😅
There's:
Doing Hexes - If you got one in the match, sure many of us will be going hunting for it.
Being Altruistic - Helping a teammate on their last hook by taking a chase, which rarely works since the killer usually still goes after the targeted survivor and downs them even if we get downed for the other survivor. Timely unhooks for those clutch saves. Healing a homie up.
Runner - If I'm not a complete Nea bot to last long enough for at least 2 gens before going down.
Doing Gens - You?
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Remember when killers (and most players in general) were asking for a basekit mini Corrupt Intervention? Well, instead they got Corrupt Intervention nerfed for no reason. And the perk remained meta because losing 2 or 3 gens in the first few minutes can completely decide a match.
I don't know how anyone can be happy with the current status of the game, where one side always crushes the other completely in question of minutes. Close games are a rarity these days.
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The current meta is the 2nd strongest killers have ever had (gen kick being 1st) tied with soloQ being completely unplayable at the moment with people constantly giving up.
I sincerely do not not how any killer player can complain rn outside of them having a skill issue.
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Basekit corrupt would help a lot. Survivors have gotten a bunch of free basekit stuff recently to counter killer strategies that they don't like. Killers have gotten basically nothing in return and as was mentioned above Corrupt got nerfed when literally no one was asking for it. So now the only way for killers to apply any kind of pressure is to tunnel and survivors wonder why killers tunnel all the time. Slow the game down a bit and tunneling won't feel required to secure a kill.
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We know that's not true because of the gen kick meta.
Literally all Killers had to do was sit there and kick gens and they still tunneled.
No, the reason there's more tunneling is because people have finally learned that it's easy, efficient and extremely difficult to counter
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Losing 1-2 gens before your first chase is completed is normal, and always has been. DBD matches have a predictable pace: things go quick early, then slow down as the killer has fewer gens to cover.
Gen speeds may be too quick, but you don't feel that as much early as late.
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Balance in this game is virtually impossible to achieve. That isn't a reason to not strive for it. But we all just need to acknowledge that there is no reality where every player will be happy with the balance or mechanics established in this game. There are YouTubers with killer win streaks in the 100's. Which is absolutely absurd when you think about it. There are also YouTuber survivor win streaks that are really long.
Neither of these things would be possible if player skill wasn't a significant part of whether you win or lose. So before writing off the gen speeds or anything the survivors do as the problem, you have to ask yourself if you played flawlessly. Did you do everything in your power? Was there any perk or add on that you could have brought that would have changed the outcome? Instead of worrying about things that are beyond your control like the gen speed, focus on the things that you do have control over.
But more importantly the question you should be asking yourself is "did I have fun?". Ultimately that is the objective of any video game. If you aren't having fun then it might be time for a break.
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My guess? Because it isn't fun.
Nobody likes those games where gens fly and there is little you can do about it. Much less those where people give up and you don't get to play. The way I see it, most players like extended trials where there is time for stuff to happen.
But you cannot ask survivors to not do gens because what else will they do?
Totems? Well, this one is the ideal secondary objective. But Ruin got a rework and a nerf, and Thrill of the Hunt got a nerf. Very few killers use hexes, and the ones who do have no means to protect them.
Healing? Unnecessarily nerfed. I blame CoH for that, a perk that I believe shouldn't exist, and the reluctance to bring Self-Care back to the meta.
Chase? Map reworks messed them up pretty badly. There are deadzones aplenty and those new tiles are awful to run.
Hide? Yeah, this one is viable.
But thats it. Unless the killer is Pig, there is nothing else for survivors to do other than gens. Therefore, gens fly. Killers stack gen slowdown to counter that and no one has fun. Welcome to modern DBD.
This is just my point of view, obviously, but it seems pretty accurate based on what I've seen since returning to the game.
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Ah yes one of the strongest perks in the game free for S and A tier killers. Making them even more oppressive.
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You're completely disregarding the setup time.
The 14-28 seconds of blessing time, hunting for a totem, and the travel time to and from the boon were all time spent *voluntarily* not doing gens at the very start of the game. Usually with multiple survivors doing this instead of gens.
Killers demanded the healing nerfs, and fully expected survivors to waste time healing each other. Instead survivors recognized that it's a waste of time, and have all this free time saved by not blessing towns any more. All that extra time is spent on gens currently.
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- Adding 50sec Gen basekit.
- Almost remove self healing with Selfcare, Coh, Medkit nerf.
- Instead of healing in 16sec before doing Gen, survivor just do Gen being injured with Resilience + Adrenaline.
- Killers thought the Gen time extended from 106sec (16sec healing + 90sec Gen) into 114sec (24sec healing + 90sec Gen). But no, it dropped down to below ~83sec with Resilience.
- Now killers want Gen time to be increased further so survivors have to be injured doing 114sec of Gen.
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You can make the same argument against survivors. Tunneling is worse than ever because gen regression was nerfed into oblivion.
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As others have said, losing a gen or two on the first chase is perfectly normal and doesn't mean the match is in anyway lost.
As a survivor, if the killer has someone on the hook before we even have a single gen done, we've almost certainly lost.
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All Killers should be reworked to have secondary objectives to slow the game down/occupy Survivor’s time.
Every Killer wouldn’t just be a new power to play against, but also an objective that comes with that Killer. Add-ons provide room to create variety for this.
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A number of my survivor games have 2-3 gens pop early. Most end with 3-4k with gens still remaining. Survivors are strongest early game and weakest later game, as resources dwindle.
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I don't think killers realize that once they get their first down and hook other survivors are slowed down tremendously as someone else as to take chase and another to unhook. And if chases are fast killers can gain a reasonable amount of pressure in no time.
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Tunneling is just as bad as it was during gen kick eruption meta. in fact tunneling was so bad during the eruption regression meta that around that time they had to rework pain res so it only worked on each survivor once, to discourage tunneling. it's just that regression was so oppressive that people complained about that far more than they did about tunneling
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The self heal at normal heal speeds made spreading apart even stronger. And people would bring maps with totems on different levels so the killer would also have to go up meanwhile they could self care on the base level.
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So instead of searching for totems, spending time blessing, traveling, and bringing a nearly useless map...
You've now got survivors spending 100% of that time on gens and bringing toolboxes.
I'm not arguing that being healthy is helpful, but the trade off with the healing changes was that all that time that used to be spent healing is now just spent doing gens. Especially at the start of the game, that time was absolutely beneficial for killers, and it was traded for even more time later in the match as people ran around trying to heal (and still not doing gens).
The healing nerf is directly responsible for quite a lot more gen efficiency. The one thing it didn't do is make survivors 'waste time healing', which is what killers were hoping for with the nerfs.
That's not how healing nerfs like this have ever worked in this game, and banging out gens with resilience and adrenaline was literally meta before coh came out. We're just back to that again, which was honestly the obvious result of the healing nerfs.
ETA: it wasn't normal healing speeds, this is a very common misconception. There was a 50% bonus to healing, but the self care effect has a built in 50% penalty to healing. The net result is that survivors spent a bit over 21 seconds self healing in the boon, since the total bonus with just circle was 75%. That 21 seconds doesn't include any hunting, travel, or setup time.
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Did the mods realy delete my comment here XD
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Yeah but OG was 100% which 200% healing speed divided by half was 100%. They can implement boons but not the way COH was done.
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They need to bring back the CoH self-heal and make it 24seconds ( medkit self-heal 16seconds as well). Get rid of the speed buffs on all of these (better medkits get more charges instead). With any luck, survivors will go back to healing more and spending more 16 second intervals (more with mangled) off gens .
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The upcoming mangled change could be changed from longer heal time to a generator speed deficit while injured with mangled. That would make it healing from Sloppy Butcher feel less awful and incentivize healing
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The issue is survivor's lacking a objective prior to gens. Right now survivor's are reliant on the killer for a secondary objective weather it's slugging, rescuing, or a hex totem.
I also believe that other factors play into this such as maps and the fact that killer's have to depend on survivor's to make a mistake in a chase.
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CoH (boons in general): If BHVR had made boons work like Hex's, than Boons would have never been a problem
Medkits and Healing: Idk who asked for this but I'm putting the blame on BHVR's poor choice of balance because of CoH (Even though medkits themselves weren't a problem)
Second Chance perks: These had to go, because killer's are too dependant on survivor's making mistakes, on top of that DH for distance extended chases pretty much screwing the killer over.
DS: Imo this perk needs to be deleted because of how unhealthy it is. The 6yrs I've been playing this game, the perk always makes it into patch notes at least once a year weather it's a nerf or a buff. I don't have a problem with the perk (its current state at the time of this comment) but it either needs to become forgotten or staked in the heart.
Edit: Spelling Error
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killers wanted Med-kits and COH nerfs because everyone being healed meant that weaker killer have to hit survivors 2 times instead of once.
what killers have asked for is their chases to be meaningful when they hook survivors. what killers got was nerf to pain res, nerf to dms, nerf to eruption and nerfs to pop goes weasel. So instead of their chasing meaningfully slowing the game down for killer if they play well by hooking people, their chases mean less because they get poor game-delay from said hooks. The more hooks they go for, the faster they lose.
If everyone runs Deja vu which is 6% repair increase, you can get 84 seconds gens which is similar to 80 second gens especially if you account for 1-2 great skill-check to further reduce this to like 82 seconds. You get free BT so it is not like your losing a perk slot for what you were running before. You can now just use old perks of Dead hard, Decisive strike, Adrenaline, WoO from 5 years ago.
I also don't think med-kit nerfs are that big of a change purely because running a red syringe+med-kit is still 2 heals and running a combination of med-kit+gel dressing with skill-check add-on is 2 heals or running 2 charge add-on is 2 heals. 24 second healing is old-self care which is a perk that 99% of survivor ran in dbd 2017. Even if your not using add-on, a single free-heal from a med-kit is sometimes enough in some games.
The only nerf to med-kits is sloppy butcher and they're gutted mangled in few months anyway so soon med-kit change will be almost meaningless.
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No, the solution is to give survivors something else to do. When Ruin was still meta, survivors would spend a good amount of time, searching the totem. That is downtime survivors don´t spend on gens. We simply need something else apart from gens for survivors to do.
Gas cans, to refill gens have been proposed several times. Its just something else to do than hug gens all match.
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Its not about the gen times. Its about giving survivors something, anything else to do.
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The best part is that we already have the solution.
Ruin.
Ruin is the solution. It only needs a reversion.
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Yes, i would also go slightly further and hide totems a bit better. I know they can do it, totem spawns were not always as god awful as they are now. That would give those useless totem find perks an actual reason to exist.
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Percentages don't work that way.
Survivors are better in the early game and can easily pop 2 or 3 gens before the killer starts to pressure. Killer is way stronger in late game, due to many recourses being gone and gets way more hooks then.
Also. The killers objective isn't to get 12 hooks. It's to kill 4 survivors. By how many hooks you do that is up to you.
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I feel like side objectives are sometimes even too much for survivors to handle. Pig, Pinhead and Sadako have consistently high kill rates just because of this.
It's good for experienced players but bad for newer ones I feel.
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Dude, you're arguing a version of the perk that was nerfed immediately after launch in January 2022 (patch 5.5.0).
That's almost exactly 2 years ago now, before the 'meta shakeup' in 6.1.0, and not the version that got gutted with the medkit changes recently.
We've had the 50% version since in April 2022 (patch 5.7.2). That's the one I'm talking about, and the version of the perk that's existed for almost all of the perk's existence until the most recent healing nerfs.
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But not enough for 12 hooks.
Certain killers and maps, not to mention items, addons and especially perks make this impossible.
You can definitely win, just not the way OP seems to want to. And by all means, wanting to go for 12 hooks is very noble.
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Killers specifically asked for these nerfs.
Circle (or boons) as a single use mechanic would never be used, giving us the same 'injured and gen rush' meta we had before boons, and coincidentally have right now after the circle nerf.
I don't know what kind of revisions history is going on here, but medkits have been complained about incessantly for longer than circle has existed.
DS disabling in end game and the conspicuous action nerfs were/are fine. The nerf to 3 seconds, of which ~1.4 seconds the survivor is animation locked as well, is not fine. DS doesn't do it's job as anti-tunneling anymore because of the stun duration nerf.
The only reason people run DS right now is to reset endurance and exhaustion exactly once per game. It does nothing whatsoever to deter tunneling with the 3 second duration... So yeah, I'm not surprised that people 'have no problem with' a perk that doesn't do anything.
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