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Is no-heal meta problematic?
Just curious about everyone's opinion on that.
No heal meta mostly means survivors are ignoring even objectives like healing and doing gens even if they are injured.
Do you think this meta is bad or good for game?
Comments
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The problem is with survivors stacking repair speed. Deja Vu, Resilience, Prove Thyself. Toolboxes and the like.
Killers been complaining about how generators are repaired so fast and they're not wrong. Corrupt Intervention is always seen in high rank.
This meta results in absolute stale and uninteresting matches followed by one sacrificing self on hook if it doesn't go their way or killers waiting for all gens to finish to open gate.
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the question is killers never stop chasing or trying to kill survivors so why should survivors ever stop doing gens or not prioritize gens since it's their only objective and escape route
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I don't see much of the no heal meta. I see people healing SUPER fast as soon as they're out of chase. If I stop committing to a chase for about 10secs, they're back and the time was wasted
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I mean I think it's a valid way of playing the game. We wouldn't have Resilience in the game if the devs didn't want staying-injured to be something you can do and be rewarded for it.
Back before MFT got nerfed you could argue there was a bit too much reward for staying injured but now I think it's fine. If you're injured you risk the killer getting an easy hit and hook, and even if you run early, your chase is still gonna be shorter than if you'd healed. Also makes playing stealthy much harder.
I mean people aren't staying injured because it's strong, it's not. Even with Resilience and MFT/Dead Hard most survivors would be better off in chase if they'd started healthy. They're only staying injured because healing is slower.
Overall I'd say the staying-injured meta is better for killers than the CoH + busted medkit meta.
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I think it is a high risk high reward strategy. It also depends on the killer, for instance not healing against twins, hag or oni is a death sentence.
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Sweating gens injured
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I'm fine with it.
If survivors choose not to heal, I can leverage that as killer. If they do choose to heal, they're probably taking more than the eight seconds it used to take for one survivor to heal themselves, so that's fine too.
I'll say that I do have an issue with people acting as though they're being forced to stay injured because "healing is so useless now", as people love doing with no basis in reality, but that's a separate discussion to the outcome of that decision.
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Pre-MFT nerf, I think a very good argument could have been made that staying injured, against most Killers at least, was far too strong. Now, not so much. It's still very much risk vs. reward, but without MFT, the risk is much more present.
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The time it takes to heal someone, especially mangled, could be on a gen instead. Trying to heal someone when there are 3+ gens not done is a huge waste of time. All a killer needs is survivors being too altruistic. I’m neutral on it tbh.
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Mixed bag. Survivors will glue themselves to gens injured but at the same time that's a VERY risky thing to do, atleast while we're killer as that means quicker downs. Basically if they don't bother to heal, it's going to be a quick game one way or another. It's not a problem per say but it can be predictable and dull.
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The stay injured strategy can be very strong when done correctly and at the right time. Its especially strong against weaker killers.
But survivors who are literally never healing are misplaying. Very risky against stealth or if the killer is proxy camping. And you can't do much to help a tunneled team mate if you are injured.
I play stealth Wesker often and i am quite happy with survivors that refuse to heal. Its hilarious the amount of players that get caught off guard by the Glasses addon/Tinkerer and Trail of Torment.
"I'll say that I do have an issue with people acting as though they're being forced to stay injured because "healing is so useless now""
Yeah. I use at least 1 heal perk (usually Botany Knowledge ) in most of my builds and healing feels perfectly viable and strong to me even against Sloppy.
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If I understand the topic, you're asking if the current meta is an overall fun design, not whether the way people are playing it is good strategy or not.
Generally, yes. While I don't mind the the occasional 'long' game (15 to 20 minutes), generally I find the 7 to 10 minutes games much more enjoyable. Healing isn't totally worthless (though totems are usually not worth it, and forget about chests) and I feel that the rush mentality more fits the action thriller theme the game has kind of evolved into.
It's by no means perfect. Back in the healing meta, I felt that as survivors if we had a CoH we still might have a chance after a tunnel, now if someone gets tunneled its a race to get the remaining gens done immediately (better be down to 1 or 2 left). As a killer, if the survivors bring four green toolboxes its kind of ridiculous.
Overall I'd like the games to take about the length they have now, though giving survivors a reason to do things other than gens would be nice.
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I'm not seeing this in my games for the most part but I truly do not understand people who complain about this even if it is the case. CoH was nerfed because healing was too strong but now staying injured is no good either? I have two thoughts on this.
1. If you can't leverage everyone being one shot as killer that's a massive skill issue
2. This feels like some killers going "okay you're injured so now you have to go get healed and no touching gens" which feels like we're inching towards a "killers hand book for survivors" situation which like lol oh have turns have tabled.
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It's really not a great strat for survivors if you take advantage of it on killer. Especially early to mid game. If you put someone on hook and multiple survivors are injured, you're forcing a reset on their part before they can save. That's even more game delay than you usually get from a hook, and you can interrupt it if you have tracking or good game sense. And if they don't reset, you have one hit chases and people saving while injured. That should be a winnable game for the killer.
I think a lot of times killers are mistaking a "trouble hitting survivors/lack of game sense" problem for a "no heal meta" problem.
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Just shows how non threatening most killers are if they don't even bother to heal!
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"Problematic" is an understatement, my friend. This meta is extremely bad for the game.
Just like I've said on another thread, survivors don't leave gens because everything else they can do (healing, totems, chases) has suffered with unnecessary changes. To counter that, killers stack slowdown after slowdown.
And in the end, no one has fun.
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I think it's stale that gens are done so quickly but it's also stale to be tunneled and/or camped constantly. Both sides forcing each other in to unfun gameplay, such is the cycle. I hope bhvr can do something about it and make the game a little more fun again
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Nobody is happy with anything, gee
Might as well survivors die in 1 hit
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People were happier when each individual aspect of this game wasn't ruined.
But since they were, there is nothing else for survivors to do other than gens. Therefore, gens fly. Killers stack gen slowdown to counter that and no one has fun. Welcome to modern DBD.
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I prefer this instead:
- Whole team could have free and endless 20sec healing due to one perk in a team
- 2-4 incrediably fast healing for bringing one item. So fast that u literally could reset one health state in the chase by predroping few pallets.
- Current meta motivates you to work in a team, thinking not only about your butt and encourages it much better than before. I love it.
Because healing is resource and resources shouldn't be endless and super good at the same time without any downside.
When i read "healing is nErFeD tO tHe GrOuNd" I know this person is either a hypocrite or terribly bad at the game. Because:
- If things above look fair to you, don't even start talking about balance in the game.
- People hate UW so much that they use Calm Spirit. If healing in such a bad spot, why there is no a single healing perk in top-15? I know why: because people were so much spoiled by introducing original COH, that literally forgot how they had healing before. Every match had a Botany before Mikaela's chapter. Children got the candy, it was taken away from them, and now they think they've lost something.
- Should I even mention that almost every survivor healing perk is many times better than any killer perk in the same category? And devs are about to nerf Mangled i guess, lmao
- Altruistic healing WAY MORE rewarded than before. I use my medkit on teammate in 70% of cases and it saves us so much time. Especially useful when killer comes back to hook to tunnel. Also CoH still wining some of my games, i don't care how loud some people crying that it's bad.
So no, i'm glad we have what we have. Only thing i hate about this meta is braindead m1 injured into 4 Adrenalins. It's the same level of lameness as 4 aura Nurse on Midwich.
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I guess? The metas been forced with healing nerfs
I would much rather do gens injured with resilience and Deja vu
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I think people are misunderstanding the stay injured strat. There are times when staying injured can be powerful/the best play. Like when you are about to finish an important gen and want to avoid Pop or Pain res hitting it. Or its the last gen and you want to setup an Adrenaline play.
But the crowd that refuses to heal no matter the context or that legit believe healing is weak are just playing poorly or mad that healing is actually balanced now. Killers that feel the need to stack 4 slow down are also playing poorly.
The counter to these types of survivors is playing a killer with good chase or using good stealth/terror radius perks to get easy quick downs. Or punishing the injured survivors by pressuring hooks. Good luck getting a proper hook rescue while injured against a killer with lethality.
The issue here is that low tier killers struggle to get fast downs and keep up with efficient survivors. Against a basic m1 killer you can get away with not healing. But strong killers have the tools to handle it.
Also Botany and We'll make it are still amazing perks.
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Self healing takes too long. And yes bringing perks to make self healing not awful is in fact, not good.
Altruistic healing is too inefficient most of the time unless specific conditions.
So why would survivors ever want to heal?
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