BHVR sucks all the fun out of the killers with their reworks
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Agree!
Freddy and Sadako in particular where very creative killers in their own rights. The reworks for both of them made them stronger (in case of Freddy only for a while), but did one thing especially well.
WATER THEM DOWN.
They are way more boring to play. Sadako is a spam fest of a killer that destroys soloq and struggles against better survivors, due to her chase being nerfed. Gone are the days of strategically condemning survivors, mindgaming teleports and predicting the correct TV. Freddy was even more extreme when he got reworked in my opinion. Horrendous slowdown, combined with teleport and basicly clowns power on top. Set snare here, push survivor there and easy hit. The nerfs only showed the true side of the rework. If you nerf it, its way too weak. If it stays, its way too strong. No in between. Dont even get me started on the addons. Sadako barely got her addons touched. Only the "problematic" ones got changed. The other awful addons stayed the exact same. Freddy is widely considered to have the worst addons in the entire game. I mean, you could make his iridescent paint brush basekit and he would not be too strong in any way. If you can make the strongest addons of a killer completely basekit and he would still be realtively weak, that says A LOT about the state of the killer.
But again, the most important part is: They lost what made them enjoyable and unique.
I very much hope that they revert many of what the rework destroyed in the case of Sadako and that they heavily consider doing the same for Freddy when his time inevitably comes.
#bringbackSadako
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Sadako is awful to play right now. She lost what made her unique and became and even worse soloq stomper than she already was.
#bringbackSadako
Freddy was considered "fun" because he was legit overtuned. Everyone enjoys a "win-Button". Freddy was that. Super low effort, very high payoff.
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Nah, having to use a perk slot was unfair and not everyone brang the perk, therefore punishing whoever was unhooked. Unfair just like having shadowborn take up a perk slot for FOV. It was needed.
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Oh come on, please have some empathy.
Do you know how awful it felt as an Old Freddy main to see your killer GONE? When you know there were better ways to fix him?
That was terrible. Freddy's rework isn't just a miss, it is the biggest failure of them all.
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I disagree, for me Sadako is more fun now, which stems from the fact that her tapes are actually used now. Before the rework, they were practically non-existent. But everyone their own opinion, that's why I put her into mixed.
But Freddy wasn't such a "win-button" right after the rework. The whole Forever-Freddy meta took some time to gain traction. Before that became an issue, the rework was considered fine. Do not forget, his teleport to gens was a new thing, only new Freddy and Demo could do this, so that obviously was very cool to see at this time. Also fake pallets were considered stronger right after the rework. Freddy rework was certainly interesting and creative at that time, his whole boring-stigma came WAY later.
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Yes you could make him somewhat viable, but that requires some heavy aid of his dream transition add-ons (and old class photo, I guess).
Old Freddy was helpless while survs were still in dream transition. The amount of times I had to witness the survs finishing a gen or opening a gate in my face without anything I could do was countless. Old Freddy was original yeah, but also awfully weak (at least for the casual killer player). And still a nightmare to newer players (pun intended).
Yes the rework totally destroyed his identity, but that does not automatically make the reworked power design bad. No one would bat an eye if a new killer had been released with this exact power. Imo with Freddy it's just the nostalgia kicking in hard.
Post edited by BoxGhost on2 -
Old Freddy wasn't what I consider weak, more so he had too many counters. As mentioned a few QoL changes would've sufficed.
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How so ? when it is the core of my entire point,did you read what i posted ?
I don't care about it being double standard to some degree,my is how survivors will complain and complain, even make threats until Bhvr finally changes something that gives any killer value
Yes Eruption was strong ?understandable but all was needed for it to be toned down instead of completely reworked.The perk does nothing now?
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Yup eruption is now an awful perk, as are the other perks that were buffed in 6.1. Survivors like to point at that patch as proof the devs aren’t survivor-sided, but conveniently ignore that all of those buffs were taken back. We were left with a 2% kick speed increase.
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RIP Billy, never forget what they took from you.
Singularity is definitely next on the chopping block, I'm calling it now they are reducing his max pods by 1 and slurry will only give 1 extra pod and emp'd pods can't be replaced.
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legion and onryo are fun and stronger which is good. the singularity though i wouldnt be surprised if they make him weaker despite him already being weak
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You're missing the point.
It goes beyond making him viable, which yes I knew and still know how to do.
It is about losing what is precious to you. You, my friend, has Nemesis in your profile picture, so I presume he is your main. If not, try to follow my line of thought with your favorite killer.
Imagine you wake up tomorrow and Nemesis is straight up gone. Instead, you get a killer with the exact same appearance, but with a vastly different power that you despise. It is stronger, objectively speaking, but you hate it.
That wouldn't feel good. I know it wouldn't, because that is what I felt in July in 2019.
Exactly.
Not as weak as everyone said, and also extremely easy to fix.
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Only the ones that want to see them and dont care about balance see them.
Because you have to consider how this all contributes to kill rates and such. IF they are too high, there need to be adjustments, no matter how much the side losing their advantage crys.
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I didnt know the devs reverted the 90sec gens...
Or the reduced survivor speed on-hit...
Or the 2 stack STBFL basekit...
Or the nerfs to DH, DS, IW and Spine Chill...
Even if the Op Eruption was nerfed, 6.1.0 is still one of the most killer sided patch in dbd history
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I don't really main a certain killer, I play all of them (some less than others, ofc), apart from Xeno and Chucky, which I do not own yet. So I'm not really invested in any particular character. If the devs want to change some killer power, they'll do it, irrelevant of what that makes me feel. So I'll go along with it.
I certainly understand what you mean about losing your precious killer. So the rework sucks from a "killer identity" perspective. But from a power design / mechanical perspective, the rework was totally fine for the time being (but didn't age so well / was hit with too many nerfs afterwards). That's all I'm saying, and that's why I put Freddy in the mixed category.
You are totally free to disagree, and see it of the worst rework of all time. I just think from an objective perspective, taking into account the time the change came and not falling into the nostalgia trap, the rework was okay(ish).
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It is far easier said than done, my friend. But perhaps you won't go through what I did, then. Which is good. No one deserves that.
Well, agree to disagree, then.
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Tapes get used because she's a spam fest. It takes almost no skill to get extremely good result with her. A mori doesn't feel rewarding.
Before, there was genuine skill to pulling condemned off (I don't mean slugging with ring drawing or using iri tape).
All of this has been sucked out.
Freddy with certain perks and addons was definitely a win button against almost everyone but the finest. Of course people like to play that.
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you mean it was legit impossible get mori's without 3-gen iri tape or slugging ring drawing. it is obvious your upset on losing to Sadako due to poor survivor play. As a result, your complaining about Sadako to get nerfed.
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Excuse me?
I was a sadako main...
I played her since release up until the rework. I condemned survivors effectively while only using cabin sign.
If you think, that it was only possible to get moris using ring drawing, iri tape and slugging, your exactly proving my point. That most of the players didn't understand how to play as her and struggled. Therefor the rework was for people like you.
I PLAY sadako right now btw... Kinda as a "good bye you monster". I played her on the Ptb and saw it was bad. I left my feedback there. Hours of feedback and constructive criticism.
Now that they finally seem to notice that many players including me where right about the rework, I'm happy for the eventual return of my second favourite killer.
Pls don't throw around accusations if they are based on nothing at all.
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I just don't see how you could get condemn kills vs experienced teams in old version without said strategies. the tv took 100 second themselves to recharge and there was no pressure ever carry a tape. the player's struggle because kit was ineffective. Like even experienced players like otz said that old kit was not good to the point that a lot of player didn't really bother with condemn despite the curse being a major part of his identity as a killer. when your comment is "Tapes get used because she's a spam fest", it starts discredit what your talking about as if there is no tactical decision making going on in the match. "Good bye you monster" somewhat further cements my comment. I am not sure why your outraged/surprised especially if your agreeing indirectly.
I played her on the Ptb and saw it was bad. I left my feedback there. Hours of feedback and constructive criticism.
I think there is hardly any feedback on Sadako post-changes except from you. I visit the forums semi-regularly and your one of posters that always talks about her. I enjoy playing sadako despite her being m1 killer because i find her hit & run rewarding and her fast-travel mobility fun. The decision making in what chases you take with her feels more sophisticated as opposed other m1 killers. I also enjoy playing against her as survivor because i feel like the gameplay behind surviving Sadako is different compare other killers. It is one of the aspect that over-time has made not like survivor as much. that being is that every killer feels like you do same actions to escape them. that makes escaping boring. ideally each killer should need change the way you play to escape them but that has been absent in killers. Sadako fits that bill perfectly. a different type of escape and survival.
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Oh god...
Otz said here, Otz said there. How long and how much time did he invest into Sadako? I'm certain I invested more.
For confirmation, I was 4th highest for condemnation on public steam leader boards at the time of her rework.
My build was: Surge, Stbfl, face the darkness and Discordance. Addon only cabin sign. I was good enough to monitor most survivors throughout the match and tracked / memorized the stacks I had on survivors. I knew how many stacks they had and where I would find them to make the most out of my tvs. I don't think, Otz ever put that much thought into playing her. Willie definitely did.
Are you kidding me?
THERE WAS HUGE FEEDBACK I THE PTB.
@OnryosTapeRentals@OnryosTapeRentals was also very active in the feedback section. Say that it was just me is honestly insulting to all the players that exchanged their ideas.
There is tactical decisionmaking FROM the survivors. Sadakos is almost not existant. Yes, you sometimes have to find survivors and hit them for more condemned. Thats it. Nothing more. No strategically finding survivors to condemn. It's map wide. Who cares. No TV prediction. It's every TV now. Who cares.
Most of what made her special is gone. She's super easy to play and destroys most uncoordinated teams. It's much harder to play against her than to play her. I don't like that. She was hard to get into, but had a strong payoff. Players like otz didn't see her full potential. Why did he not see it? Because he wanted and still wants a killer that chases and hooks with a slowdown mechanic. She's not that. Her power is the threat to instantly kill a survivor. If you played her correctly, it was absulotely possible to get one or two moris every game. I did that extremely consistently.
The strategic way to play her got destroyed with the introduction of map wide condemned and every TV being accessible. Her chase got even worse due to no more bloodlust while demanifested and a nerf to reikos watch. Mobility got also worse due to a (sadly necessary) cooldown on teleporting.
I can not stress enough how much this killer meant to me and I hope, that the developers finally give her the changes she deserves. Not the ones that make her worse.
I ALSO HAVE TO STRESS: STRONGER DOES NOT MEAN BETTER.
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The gen speed made no difference, and neither did the wipe/speed boost nerf. In the vast majority of situations, the survivor will still make it to safety.
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