Dead by Daylight lack of appreciation of its Player Base’s Time
The last AMA pretty much showed again that Dead by Daylight does not appreciate the time its Players spend within it. The Question about receiving Prestige 100 Rewards got "declined" due to them not wanting to clutter the store any further. Before the AMA they already answered a nearly similar question with “We don’t want players to have FOMO.” While promoting cosmetics that are time locked.
But let’s go back in time. I play Dead by Daylight since it’s release of 2016 and unlocked the achievements for Legacy Prestige. Back then BHVR had a huge issue with corrupted profile saves – meaning a lot of Players lost them like me, never getting them back because “there’s not enough evidence of owning said legacy”. Legacy Prestige was the first thing of showing appreciation for the time you would spend within the game since leveling up your character took tremendously longer.
I just want to add that based on BHVRs History, it’s not shocking that these topics are not prioritized and I don’t expect anything from a company that had the biggest UI Flop in history but before I bash Dead by Daylight even further, I just want to mention that they have improved quite a lot compared to the past. But sadly, not in all the right corners.
Going further we would receive Player Level and with that Devotion Level. We have players with 20 to maybe 40 Devotion Levels. And all they do is essentially spitting in your face, just laughingly telling you how much time you’ve spend with in Dead by Daylight. As of the end of 2021 Dead by Daylight finally rewarded Players for their reached ranks / grades. It took them 5 years to introduce something that essentially thanked you for your played time, while introducing SBMM meaning your matches are potentially harder in the long run. But we have to give them props, they increased the rewards from 250.000 Bloodpoints to 1.000.000.
And yes, I am aware that they introduced Bloody or scratched background within the last bloodweb rework - but they again stopped them. Meaning every new introduction does not have them, so the background is out of place. It just triggers having them all but yet seeing how you miss the newer characters.
The lack of appreciation really hurts the Player Base sometimes. Sure, there are bigger things like the balancing and fixing the game but there is nothing for players to achieve within the game. Your prestige levels, your player levels, your grades, the number of perks you own, the number playtime you have - there is no appreciative reward waiting for you.
I think people are past the wish of having Re:Legacy. But there are so many cool ideas that would help especially new players. An example would be of adding Bloodpoint Rewards within the Devotion Levels to help new players of gaining perks faster – and I don’t mean 100.000 for a devotion level – give those cute new players at least 1.000.000 at least. There are right now over 240 perks, there is so much to catch up to.
A different game has a system that lets players choose different customization by rewarding players for their achievements and spend time. Another idea would be to include a new slot that layers a special effect over your outfit. I never understood why the anniversary crowns are over a default head instead of being a charm or something similar. Plus the crowns were a cool introduction yet they completely stopped rewarding them for newer characters. (And I am talking the 4th year crown - the 5th can go home, it's so ugly.)
Because charms are right now really a awful addition to the customization because most charms are weirdly locked behind one role and they have so many upgraded stages meaning you most of the time have over 20 pages of them.
By the way you could use a similar system for +reps. Meaning if you would vote positively within a match, everyone would receive f.e. +10.000 Bloodpoints to a maximum of +50.000. If you consider the match negatively then no bonus bloodpoints are rewarded. I think we should reward players instead of punishing them and this would be one way.
There are a lot of possibilities that are not too demanding but here we are facing the 97th Feng Min Outfit. But hey, let’s not make the shop too cluttered, right?
What are your thoughts about this topic?
Comments
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“there’s not enough evidence of owning said legacy”
I never understood this. All you have to do is look at the achievement.
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The big issue was probably the save file itself. You could freely edit your save file since Dead by Daylight did not had a copy of them. Meaning everything was on your computer. So that's why it hurt double to lose them - there was no copy. People had to make sure of having backups etc. And even then it was not safe. Just a BHVR thing honestly.
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Yeah the situation behind legacy will always be difficult. A good bit of people got legitimately robbed of what they earned. Like with the scorching skins. But i don't know if were at the level to give it to everyone. Maybe repurpose it for something like p100? Thats about it for me. Or just when your given enough proof give it back to them?
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Yeah, but like... just give it to everyone who has the first prestige achievement before November of 2016, which I believe was the deadline for Legacy.
At least everyone who lost them will get them back.
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I just want to point that this thread is not really about Legacy, it's about the lack of appreciation for your time in Dead by Daylight - the lack of generall rewards imo. And by the way no matter your proof, they did not give anyone their legacy back.
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I genuinely do not care about prestige rewards, i don't need some reward for what is essentially just bragging rights for doing something that everyone is going to end up accomplishing eventually.
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It's not about bragging and like I stated, you could essentially reward Bloodpoints which would help newer players the most with over 200 perks to level up.
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It would be nice to get shards, a charm or you know, at least something for hitting those prestige milestones (P10, P20, P30 etc).
I don't feel any desire to prestige past the bloody cosmetics and perk charms. On the other hand, I don't need to be given any more reasons to dump even more of my time into playing this game so... I dunno. Maybe for the best?
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Alright, as for the actual topic of discussion here:
I'm fine with no new prestige rewards.
Honestly, I think the whole "P100" thing was a mistake. Going all the way to P3-50 was reasonable, and you got some good rewards out of it.
One prestige level for each bloody cosmetic, then it is over. That system was okay, I liked that. But now? Now you just do it endlessly for no reason other than a red badge that most people want to hide. They could have made the perks unlock for everyone without changing the whole system.
I see no reason to award something for a massive grind that shouldn't be there. I do think the red backgrounds were awful though, so that could have been better.
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Except that's exactly what prestige is, just bragging rights, just like all other prestige systems in video games.
Reaching some prestige level is not some impressive feed, it's just time consuming at best, as well as not even being required to do.
You wanna help new players obtain perks easier? Then overhauling the Shrine of Secret is a better solution for it.
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The issue started with introcuding a lacklaster of prestige 100 that only brought a grind withit. My point was with the overall system inlcuding but not limited to Devotion Level etc. Sure does the Shrine of Secrets need a overhaul and so does the daily rituals. As you see, there is actually a lot of things that need a touch up which does not take a lot of time or effort - yet here we are, having none of that besides weird excuses. So yet again, its not about bragging rights - more about respecting the time players put into dead by daylight. And by the way there is no problem with showing that someone actually leveled up to 100.
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I disagree with the Shrine and Daily Rituals needing changes. Maybe rituals could award more points than they currently, but otherwise I think they are fine.
And I don't get why not having a reward for P100 is a disrespect of a player's time. You could have thousands of hours into this game back then and not have prestiged once because you didn't want to lose your stuff. Hell, my first prestige cost me my last Splinter offering.
If anything I think the system should be reverted. Just go back to P1, 2 and 3. Unlock the perks and the bloody cosmetics at the same time. I think this is definitely better than the alternative we currently have.
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The issue started with introcuding a lacklaster of prestige 100 that only brought a grind withit. My point was with the overall system inlcuding but not limited to Devotion Level etc. Sure does the Shrine of Secrets need a overhaul and so does the daily rituals.
So focus on those features instead of on some needless rewards for leveling up.
If people wanna waste their time reaching prestige, then more power to them, but i don't believe they deserve some reward for it other than what they already get for doing it.
As you see, there is actually a lot of things that need a touch up which does not take a lot of time or effort - yet here we are, having none of that besides weird excuses.
And how would you know how much time or effort something takes? We don't know how difficult or how much development time something needs, so let's not start assuming things here.
So yet again, its not about bragging rights - more about respecting the time players put into dead by daylight.
You're already given something for your time put into the bloodweb, which is bragging rights, you don't need anything else for a prestige system.
You want something more than that? Then tie it to the archive challenge system as extra rewards rather than the prestige system.
And by the way there is no problem with showing that someone actually leveled up to 100.
You're right, there is no problem with that, that's why you have a P100 number tied to your character for others to see.
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People who makes it their goal to reach P50 or P100 is a choice they have made, it shouldn't be something that everyone else should also feel the need to grind for because of some attractive customization reward that is locked behind some prestige number because people like you don't feel compensated enough for your time spent leveling.
We can keep going back and forth as much as you like, i firmly believe that we don't need some reward for our time spent on the bloodweb and that's a hill i'm willing to die on.
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Why would anyone want a cosmetic when we have Killers dodging over a meaningless number next to my name? More reasons to get dodged?
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So focus on them instead of on some needless rewards for leveling up.
If people wanna waste their time reaching prestige, then more power to them, but i don't believe they deserve some reward for it other than what they already get for doing it.
And that's the issue already: You call "a waste of their time" - and that's the problem I see too. A huge flaw within the prestige system. Of course it did not need a rework to level 100 like we have now, level 3 was more than enough. But now that we are here, we could at least have some rewards for the useless grind though. And this applies to Player Level and Devotion Levels. You of course don't have to agree with me, but that's what I simply think.
And how would you know how much time or effort something takes? We don't know how difficult or how much development time something needs, so let's not start assuming things here.
In all respect and I have my own experience with this stuff, but adding a simple reward like even Bloodpoints is nothing that takes years. Not even mentioning the effort it takes. And yet again, it's not about how long rewards take, its about how they are missing imo and the weird excuses for them.
You of course don't have to agree with me but I feel like you are missing point, especially with the bragging thing. And you are only picking the prestige system which is not the whole topic. Thanks for at least showing me your pov though. I appreciate it and will keep it in mind.
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I would agree as long as everyone has the same chance and the same value to their time. Since that is what I want: no one should feel left out and I understand if someone argues with "Playing the game should be reward enough", but this is not a single player game. This is a online multiplayer game with pvp elements where you are facing new dlc's every 3 months with no new mode or anything. Showing some appreciation towards your time is in my eyes something that every game should do (and most actually do that naming Naraka as an example).
Thank you for your input, I really appreciate your ideas!
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If Legacy were to ever come back, I think it should revert your Bloodweb back to what it was in 2016. And your BP gains.
That way, you'll go through the same grind. It is only fair.
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I feel a reward for hitting milestones like P50 and P100 mau be nice. Not necessary, but as a "well done" type of thing. A charm, banner, badge or something. Doesn't have to be big because someone playing it so much must enjoy the game to a degree. It would be senseless to do otherwise.
Personally, I'm not bothered either way. The problem arises when BHVR used a reason for not implimenting this as FOMO, which is exactly what happens with some cosmetics. Obviously, rift cosmetics are an exception to this for me, but to put an outfit into the store for a limited period is what I'm refering to.
Again, FOMO isn't that big a thing for me, but BHVR aren't too wise to use this reasoning for not implimenting one thing, yet doing this to another. I feel like that's the biggest snag here.
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I remember when games were played for their gameplay instead of the things you can unlock within it. Of all the issues one could complain about "missing" rewards acknowledging one spent another >200h in a game is certainly at the bottom of the list. It's entitled bullshit. Sadly, this is the state of gaming nowadays - unlockables and microtransactions.
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Even then, it wouldn't be the same.
Legacy's whole point was to reward players who were there from the start and stuck around during a very rough and tumultuous period of the game's history. People didn't prestige for any sort of reward, they did it because they genuinely enjoyed putting time in the game and wanted to support it in any way they could. We didn't even know about Legacy until like, two weeks before the deadline, which was hardly enough time to rack up prestiges if you hadn't already had them.
Plus with the additions of bloodpoint offerings, the grind would still be easier now even if the bloodweb costed the same as it did back then.
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Well, the idea isn't mine. I'm merely sharing it.
Still, at least it fixes the problem for those who lost them. Better that than nothing at all, I say.
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As a genuine question, because I fully and sincerely don't understand, why would a handful of BP bonuses for Devotion or Prestige count as meaningful appreciation for a player's time when the current rewards you already get don't?
There's already rewards for hitting the first few Prestige milestones, and there's already currency rewards for Devotion, so why are those not enough but just more BP would be?
Personally, I think the game rewards you just fine. I wouldn't be against a P100 reward specifically (as long as it's not too good- as much as people try and act like BHVR were talking about FOMO in that original answer, what they were actually talking about is pretty fair and reasonable), but I also don't think the game is severely lacking because of its absence either. It'd be nice, but it's not like it's an insult to not have these things in the game.
The reward for you playtime is and should be that you enjoyed your time, first and foremost. Anything else is just a bonus.
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I agree with you on every point you made. The very least they could do is add a bonus to Devotion. It doesn't have to be anything spectacular. Even a BP boost would be ok, although I think Iri shard boosts would be best. I hope in the future we will at least get playercard items that show our commitment to the game, and that they make less charms (which I have never liked and do not equip on any character) and more playercard items. As it stands now I don't prestige characters very often because there is no reward for doing it. Maybe if there was a goal to work towards I would invest more time into the game.
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I agree with the developers, p100 is way too much. Maybe have the rewards unlocked at p10 or p20.
I feel like I’ve played this game to oblivion and my character with the most prestige is Onryo, and she’s at p10.
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But you cant really go off of that either since it doesn't tell you exactly what characters you got those prestiges on. Seeing the P3 achievement can mean having 1 character, or all 9.
What I dont understand is how they don't just release Legacy to everyone. Howling Grounds and Summer BBQ wasnt nearly as bad of a grind as Legacy was, but they still released them to everyone because people were randomly losing them.
You can also keep Legacy special by attaching it to Prestige. Prestige 50 you get the weapon/torso, Prestige 75 the torso/pants, Prestige 100 the head. That way theyre not just giving it away, and those who've lost their Legacy have a chance at getting it again with no time limit
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I actually hadn't thought about that...
Ah, screw it, give it to everyone. At least those who lost it can get it back.
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I do think it wouldn't take a crazy amount of work if they just offered a recoloured version of legacy for getting to p100. For the characters who had legacy it's barely any work on their part to just recolour it, and while there's heaps of characters who never had legacy, it's literally just a tweaked version of their default cosmetic.
Just change the Blight coom to purple and there ya go. A different recolour still makes the original legacy skins special while allowing a cool reward for people who put the time into p100.
Also, BHVR saying that a p100 reward would give people FOMO is just stupid. p100 isn't going anywhere, it's a permanently-available goal that anyone can do at their own pace if they want to.
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Honestly, if you think Behavior cares about your time, just look at...quite frankly everything about their conduct over the years, especially recently.
Ever since launch, all I've noticed is:
1)Skins are ALWAYS flowing.
Oftentimes the sale of these skins is emphasized over regular balance(perks and new gameplay goes unchecked and unbalanced for months until there's an outcry), gameplay implimentation(requests for new modes, cross prog and elements have gone unanswered up until recently) and testing everything when a new chapter releases. On top of this, LIMITED TIME RIFT COSMETICS(that you usually have to grind for to finish on time) BECOME PURCHASEABLE EVENTUALLY AFTER A RIFT IS OVER. To me, that's the biggest "######### you" BHVR throws at us. I get so mad when my time spent grinding a Rift is completely thrown out the window JUST so they can sell it to Mr or Mrs Moneybags, and that to me is completely unforgivable. "Oh, you're proud of that skin you unlocked and worked your ass off for? Yeah we're selling it to ######### everybody now. Thanks for grinding though!"
2)ANY new content breaks the game.
We've all heard, "when they add something, 10 other things break". Well, this has literally been a thing since launch. After all these years, you'd think they'd have a QA team(or anyone) comb through and make sure everything's 100% BEFORE they launch it, but no...gotta get a new price tag out there for people to buy. They prioritize sales every time; they let us down every single time....and yet we come back....time and time again....
3)Do ANY of the Devs play this game at higher ranks? Regularly? Seriously? And who of them STILL thinks this game is satisfying to keep playing when you're stuck in high/mid-high MMR?
I honestly and completely doubt that this team even cares to play their own game regularly. If they did, I feel like we'd have a lot more understanding and help making this ENTIRELY non-competitive game such a toxic slog of a stomping ground. A comp/non-comp playlist would do it wonders; literally anything to make MMR mean/do something meaningful would be substantial. Then don't get me started on the cheating, cuz... that's only gotten SO much worse in the past couple months, since Chucky(got stream-sniped 4-5 times in one day).
BHVR is so tone-deaf and blinded to their own money-maker and managing it, while reinforcing the idea that they only care about sales over necessary(and frankly, quite myriad) balance changes/needs. And I bet you NO ONE there plays as much, or at higher levels like we all do. I've just been baffled over the years at all of this...I really dk half the time with DBD. I just have fun playing more stuff so I'm taking longer and longer breaks but....
....I get sick of wondering when BHVR is gonna get their ######### together. Then I realize I've been perpetually stuck here for over 7 years and..... really do wonder if this is a toxic relationship, at this point XD lol
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I don't care for rewards for Prestige, but I did find it incredibly disappointing when I reached Devotion 1 and realized that it just gave me the standard 300 Iri Shards and nothing else. Shouldn't it feel significant, like 1000 Shards? Even 500? Anything other than the normal reward with no fanfare.
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I 100% stand by BHVR, they absolutely should NOT add any kind of reward at all for P100. You want to know why?
Because you do not deserve one.
Cry more about the time you spent getting to P100. It's your own damn fault, you shouldn't have done it. There is absolutely zero reason to grind to P100, and it should stay that way. Just because you wanted to get to P100, that's your own damn problem.
There is, and should remain, absolutely no reason to get to p100.
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@jesterkind fair Question! Bloodpoints would cut the grind pretty significantly - it's a great appreciation for the time that especially new players have spend. Going further, the grind is just getting worse with every new release. Sure they have tried to reduce the grind by reducing the cost in the bloodweb. But they did it while increasing the prestige level from 3 to 100 - making the grind for new players who are working towards teachable perks even worse.
If you like, let's say Nancy, you gonna spend bloodpoints on her but there is nothing waiting for you besides a P100 badge that will increase the chance of getting dodged or tunneled. going even further every system right now has a somewhat meaningless grind - devotion takes ages for new players to receive a meaningful amount of shards. Prestige right now sucks for most players.
And it's not only about prestige systems - the same applies to devotion and achievements. Great rewards could be those already excisting scratch marks back grounds for newer characters, Lobby UIs, maybe Titles, Bloodpoints, Shards, Charms (With the achievement icon of that character), a reward for p100 could be to be able to choose a prestige badge that you already unlocked (So instead of 100 you choose the level 90 one for what ever reason). There are a lot of easy and recyclable rewards.
I've seen some comments in here who are saying that prestige is meaningless and it should stay that way - but where is the problem for rewarding its player base that sticked for more than 7 years and grinded active- or passively through these systems. And you know what? Sure we can keep it this way, but it would be less bothering if the excuses that BHVR put out there weren't that flawed. "Playing the game should be reward enough" for a player base that plays your game for more than 7 years, with over 15 DLCs, with grindy systems, in an online pvp game with only one gamemode, with a lot of FOMO, with bad excuses is... let's just say underappreciative of your community. Atleast in my eyes, I understand if people disagree - fair enough. But it just shows that these things are not thought through - clearly.
Before I finish my rent: I see improvement for sure and these "missing rewards" are not the end of the world - for sure. And I am glad that we actually have Rift-Challenges, cheaper bloodwebs, reworked maps, killer and survivor adjustments, more events and especially the last killers and events (Even though some killers were awful) looking from a technical side - DbD improved like crazy. Thinking that this game would have AI and many more new features is crazy cool - but it just makes it more bitter whenever it fails in other areas, like this one. Rent over.0 -
It would be better if the daily thing wasn't always asked you to play as a killer role in the game, given how many people might not want to play as killers/get dailies for the killers they either don't play or don't want to play(looking at you Dredge). As for the prestige thing, back in the day, you lost EVERYTHING in terms of items, add-ons, and perks for choosing to get a part of a prestige outfit which is just the base outfit, but either lit up with scorch marks or darkened with blood for being stuck with one perk again and no items to help you. As for the appreciation thing, it honestly feels like playing as survivor isn't really fun anymore given they have gone so far out of the way to nerf them(changing a status to cause you to lose heal progress, Sloppy Butcher change, dunking on Med-kits, forcing you to have to let another survivor die so that the hatch spawned since you were the last survivor alive) and then add a killer(no offense to Chucky) that is basically the only killer seen now(outside of the rare other killer). I even have had times where I stopped playing the game because I no longer found it fun honestly because it feels like us survivor mains get no love by the devs at times.
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No rewards, no real progression system and slow/meaningless changes.
Somehow worse than blizzard devs, yet bhvr have improved over time instead of degrading.
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What does that mean exactly, cluttering up the store? I feel like I am missing context. Is it bad to sell a lot of items? Does it mean they feel people will get lost looking for an item to buy? Do they not want to sell a lot of things?
FFXIV has the Mog Station as their store and it's huge. I can find what I am looking for fairly easy and they sell TONS of items, cosmetics, mounts, etc.
I wish I could get the context behind that.
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