I'm getting tired of Windows of Opportunity

If the person is smart about which pallets they're using (i.e. spacing them out to minimize deadzones) to avoid giving the killer his first down, they're actually allowing the other survivors to create a lot of gen pressure. The dynamic shift always occurs when one (or more) person is on the hook, so if that early time gets utilized well the killer will only be able to get a few hooks by the time the gens are finished.

If they're dropping them back to back and making a huge deadzone though, it can cause a lot of issues later like you surmised.

Sadly, some maps have a ton of pallets. By the time every pallet is dropped all other survivors should have finished at least 3 gens. That's quite the handicap for a killer... having 2 gens left and let's assume they managed to down the person.

Plenty of people who run Windows -don't- just run from pallet to pallet pre-dropping.

Plenty of people who don't run Windows DO just from from pallet to pallet pre-dropping.

Now I do think Windows should be changed due to it's absurdly high pick-rate, but dropping loads of pallets isn't a good reason.

The funniest thing is when in my matches surv just ignores pallet 2 meters away from him, run to nowhere and later I see that he had WoO

I dislike yellow pathing players whether they are my teammates or opponents. A single perk shouldn't give players the same level of map knowledge that would normally take hundreds or thousands of hours to accumulate. Perks like Windows further diminish what little skill expression survivors have left in the game.

I typically like your takes Krazzik but the problem with the ‘it’s too strong!’ argument for perks like WoO is that these perks rise to fill a vacuum left by the nerfing of other, more useful perks. WoO doesn’t do anything for survivors that they cannot do without the perk and killers actually have a direct perk equivalent (Zanshin Tactics) they refuse to run.

There’s always going to be a mediocre survivor perk (I never see this argument leveraged against mediocre killer perks so I can’t say both but if it happens feel free to correct me) that’s ‘too strong’ in some player’s eyes. If it wasn’t WoO it would be some other middle of the road perk that survivors receive non-situational value from.

Not every perk survivors have should be hyper situational. Some of them should be good *and* general.

The problem is and will always be that dbd players lack any capability to change their mind, at least the average player/old players, for example it is widely known, at least on some parts of the comp scene that you can loop artist by baiting the crows, she is still bs thanks to deadmans but you can loop her, however everyone and their mother will spout that you have to hold W as soon as she places a crow, why? Because its easier to say that holding w is the solution rather than admiting you are not good enough to loop her.

Dont get me wrong, some killers are absolute BS at loops, knight before the AI baiting bug was unavoidable, skull merchants beams are horrible, nurse errases the concept of looping.

But a lot of people repeat and repeat the same " the only counterplay is to hold W", and will ignore multiple things like dredges remant baiting, camera switch on hag, crouch teching nemesis, like man sometimes I really think people are bad on purpose when they ignore so much things they can do, then again most of the content creators for this game have this same actitude so whats to expect from the community.

This will not work if she has LOS on you, a good artist is just going to wait until you walk into the crow's beam and press CTRL. You simply cannot run past a crow before she can send it off, and she can just walk around the loop to force you into the crow and get an m1 if you dance around trying to bait.

I don't think that is the problem, actually.

People can adapt to specific counterplays, even old dogs like you and me, the most famous example being the strategy of breaking LOS when facing Nurse. But the wave of anti-loop killers normalized something that shouldn't have been normalized, which is the hold W strategy.

Even if there are small, niche techs you can do against those killers specifically, holding W also works and people will use that because they cannot loop those killers.

Looping is the best part of chases because of the mindgames, and the potential both sides have to outplay the other. The fun dies when all you do is pre-drop everything.

Game sense is lacking among a lot of players. Taking stuff away isn't going to change that.

There are still other really strong survivor perks in the game: Sprint Burst, Adren, Deliverance, Off the Record. Heck, many of the best survivor perks are on free characters, and they are STILL run less than WoO. Even with many newer players not even having access to it, it's still run so much that it's been in the number one spot for ages.

It's overwhelming use can't just be a case of "other strong perks are getting nerfed so a decent perk is gonna rise to fill that hole" when it's run MORE than perks like Sprint Burst and Adren.

And as I mentioned before, even if you find that it's perfectly fine and not too strong, for the sake of not having a stale meta, it should STILL be changed.

Those same things are said about killer perks too, and I'm saying that this is something that should be done on both sides. Survivors widely complain about gen slowdown, but when killers moved to use much more aura-reading/info perks, survivors then complained about being found too easily. Even when killers actually started to use chase perks, mainly STBFL, that then got complained about and is on the chopping block.

This is something that both sides are equally guilty of so please don't try and make it an 'us vs them' arguement.

It kind of is though. Camping and tunnelling will get complained about, but general killer perks and kits don't get nearly as many complaints, with the exception of Blight's add-ons.

Meanwhile, there's a new WoO nerf thread every week. I haven't seen any calls for gen-kick nerfs in months. The last time I can remember that gen-kick was complained about was Eruption enforcing a 25 second 'do nothing' time-out every time someone got hooked.

No, it's not 'equally guilty'. Windows of Opportunity has had more complaint threads than STBFL, Eruption and Aura-reading combined. And the complaints aren't even always calls for nerfs, just reworks to sidestep an issue with interactivity while preserving power. Eruption imposed 25 second thumb-twiddling and STBFL is being used to camp. I don't think I've even seen complaints about aura-reading perks other than Ultimate Weapon circumventing Distortion, the perk whose one singular job it is to protect from those perks.

And still, Windows of Opportunity is higher on the list to complain about, in general, with the primary argument being pickrate. Not that it's frustrating to go against, or unbalanced or anything of the sort, no. Just pickrate.

Survivors are using it, therefor it is busted.

Are you saying every killer is anti-loop..? That is an extraordinary hot take.

Old Eruption had FAR more complaints about it than WoO has ever had.

Removing/nerfing WoO will not prevent survivors giga predropping and camping pallets

I'm pretty sure the term has to do with killers whose powers make a significant counter to traditional looping. Clown bottles or doctor shocks have far more impact than, say, wraith's cloak. Call it a misnomer but thats the colloquial usage of the term.

The difference in trapper's case is the same as in hag's: Their anti-loop is planned ahead, it's not on demand. Thats why most people don't consider them anti-loop, since dropping traps midchase just guarantees the survivor making it safely to the next tile. You could then argue that shift W works against multiple killers' anti-loop, so it starts to get a bit messy after that.

I more accurately see people call them varying degrees of anti-loop. Someone like clown or pinhead you could say have strong anti-loop, while someone like hag has weak antiloop. Like you've surmised, nearly every killer in the game has some degree of anti-loop, but thats the fun part about colloquial usages: They're generally incorrect but still universally understood.

I agree with the distinction you made in the second half but many Trappers will keep 1 or 2 traps at hand to shut down the strongest loops, if necessary. Especially with the now 10 traps, that is a reliable strategy. The same can and will be done with Hag, if you are going to 'chase' at all.

I literally said the point was not if those things deserved nerfs, only the fact they were part of the killer meta and survivors complained about them.

And besides, I question this information. Spirit was literally the second-strongest killer in the game.